In the OT we have the shadow of the Realities in the NT.
Hebrews 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of the goodthingsto come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh. 2 Else would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance made of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,
So we have the shadow Israel who was the Son of God as a group.
https://learn.ligonier.org/devotionals/israel-son-god
And then we have the Reality in the NT where all becomes a Personal Son of God in a birth from Him to be the same as their "Abba Father/Daddy", Jehovah.
Gal. 4: 1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all; 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father. 3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world: 4 but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
But there are also another Personality in the OT where God used the "shadow" of Israel as His Wife. Which has much more verses to show us this shadow.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/israel-th ... of-jehovah
And of course if there is a "Shadow Wife" then there is a "Shadow Mother" for Israel too.
Isaiah 66: 5 Hear the word of Jehovah, ye that tremble at his word: Your brethren that hate you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, have said, Let Jehovah be glorified, that we may see your joy; but it is they that shall be put to shame. 6 A voice of tumult from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of Jehovah that rendereth recompense to his enemies.
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man-child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? shall a nation be brought forth at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith Jehovah: shall I that cause to bring forth shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad for her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn over her; 11 that ye may suck and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith Jehovah, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream: and ye shall suck thereof; ye shall be borne upon the side, and shall be dandled upon the knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And ye shall see it, and your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like the tender grass: and the hand of Jehovah shall be known toward his servants; and he will have indignation against his enemies.[ASV]
Now the huge question is how this Personality of the Wife of God which is of course also the Mother of Jesus finds its NT Revelation in this Personality being a Personal Relationship into which God's Kids enter in Adult Life.
The Wife and Mother
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Johan
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #2[Replying to Johan in post #1]
Seems nobody is trying to say something on this post. Nobody has any clue at all. And nobody wants to show how he is imagining things. In the "Gospel of Jesus" from the organizations and denominations they have never come to any opinion on this topic. It is too far for their imagination to stretch. So let me give a first post on it.
Paul also knew about the Mother. And He moves the Mother from the Jerusalem as a physical city in Israel to a Spiritual City in Heaven.
Gal. 4: 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman. 23 Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise. 24 Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. 27 For it is written,
Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not;
Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:
For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted himthat was bornafter the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. 31 Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.
And John see some more. That Jerusalem is actually the Wife of God.
Rev. 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and betheir God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. 6 And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
And most of the organizations and denominations with their "Gospel" [ viewtopic.php?t=42696] say that the Wife is a Metaphor of the City to show us how God "Loves" His City as a Wife. Seems like I heard many times men were saying that their "motorcar" is like their wife. They will never borrow it to someone else. But of course we know God Loves Personal Relationships so we would rather say that the City is used as a metaphor to tell all how Great His Wife is to Him. And what is more. John saw the Wife of God coming down to earth. And of course it is not in a "city" but in a Person who is likened unto that Golden City in Her Splendor. Which we also see in her introduction to this Life as a Bride of God.
Rev. 19:Hallelujah: for the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigneth. 7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Seems nobody is trying to say something on this post. Nobody has any clue at all. And nobody wants to show how he is imagining things. In the "Gospel of Jesus" from the organizations and denominations they have never come to any opinion on this topic. It is too far for their imagination to stretch. So let me give a first post on it.
Paul also knew about the Mother. And He moves the Mother from the Jerusalem as a physical city in Israel to a Spiritual City in Heaven.
Gal. 4: 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman. 23 Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise. 24 Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. 27 For it is written,
Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not;
Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:
For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted himthat was bornafter the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. 31 Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.
And John see some more. That Jerusalem is actually the Wife of God.
Rev. 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and betheir God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. 6 And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
And most of the organizations and denominations with their "Gospel" [ viewtopic.php?t=42696] say that the Wife is a Metaphor of the City to show us how God "Loves" His City as a Wife. Seems like I heard many times men were saying that their "motorcar" is like their wife. They will never borrow it to someone else. But of course we know God Loves Personal Relationships so we would rather say that the City is used as a metaphor to tell all how Great His Wife is to Him. And what is more. John saw the Wife of God coming down to earth. And of course it is not in a "city" but in a Person who is likened unto that Golden City in Her Splendor. Which we also see in her introduction to this Life as a Bride of God.
Rev. 19:Hallelujah: for the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigneth. 7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
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Johan
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #3[Replying to Johan in post #1]
Let us add another post to this topic to enter more clarity about it.
Paul "thought" he was a "Father".
1 Cor. 4 14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
But that is prohibited by Jehovah who spoke in Jesus.
Mat. 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he correctly discerned His Character. Which is "travailing in birth".
Gal. 4: 19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
And this Truth brought the lie that He was a Spiritual Father clearly in the Light of God in being Judged. Because no father nor The Father can "travail in birth". Yet Paul discerned this as His Character. And even did it in prison too.
Philemon 1: 10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:
So Paul was actually a "Mother" and not "another Father". Because there is only One Spiritual Father. And nobody else can have that Personality. But there is room for a Mother.
Let us add another post to this topic to enter more clarity about it.
Paul "thought" he was a "Father".
1 Cor. 4 14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
But that is prohibited by Jehovah who spoke in Jesus.
Mat. 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he correctly discerned His Character. Which is "travailing in birth".
Gal. 4: 19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
And this Truth brought the lie that He was a Spiritual Father clearly in the Light of God in being Judged. Because no father nor The Father can "travail in birth". Yet Paul discerned this as His Character. And even did it in prison too.
Philemon 1: 10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:
So Paul was actually a "Mother" and not "another Father". Because there is only One Spiritual Father. And nobody else can have that Personality. But there is room for a Mother.
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Johan
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #4[Replying to Johan in post #2]
Still no posts on this thread? So let me enter another one. Which might shake all a bit. The Real Jesus is a Child or Son. And of course for a Child/Son to exist there has to be Mother and a Father. As Jehovah said when He spoke in Jesus.
Mat. 12: 46 ¶While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
We see clearly that He rejected Mary as a "Mother". Because she was obviously a human being and not a Spiritual Being. And only a Spiritual Mother who is also a Wife to Jehovah can give birth to Him. So Paul was actually a Mother of Him but never realized it. We know that at that stage Paul had another calling. To establish House Edifying Meetings where He as a "Gift" of God could give birth to Jesus and raise Him to become an Adult in a Bride and a Wife. And then the Family Life is complete. Where the Wife and Mother can take over from the Gifts and establish the Family Life of God in the New Jerusalem. And we see that it is John who got these Words from God to speak and write down. About the Adult Children of God who enters Equality with God in being a Bride first and later after the "Honeymoon" the Wife who takes up her Responsibility in Creating the Family Life of God and establishing the Real Jesus in the Earth in His Fullness.
Still no posts on this thread? So let me enter another one. Which might shake all a bit. The Real Jesus is a Child or Son. And of course for a Child/Son to exist there has to be Mother and a Father. As Jehovah said when He spoke in Jesus.
Mat. 12: 46 ¶While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
We see clearly that He rejected Mary as a "Mother". Because she was obviously a human being and not a Spiritual Being. And only a Spiritual Mother who is also a Wife to Jehovah can give birth to Him. So Paul was actually a Mother of Him but never realized it. We know that at that stage Paul had another calling. To establish House Edifying Meetings where He as a "Gift" of God could give birth to Jesus and raise Him to become an Adult in a Bride and a Wife. And then the Family Life is complete. Where the Wife and Mother can take over from the Gifts and establish the Family Life of God in the New Jerusalem. And we see that it is John who got these Words from God to speak and write down. About the Adult Children of God who enters Equality with God in being a Bride first and later after the "Honeymoon" the Wife who takes up her Responsibility in Creating the Family Life of God and establishing the Real Jesus in the Earth in His Fullness.
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Johan
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #5[Replying to Johan in post #4]
So how does a Mother actually exists as a Real Personality which God created for Him to be a Wife. And who is establishes the New Jerusalem or Family Life of God on earth?
https://kingdomofgod248585524.wordpress.com/
So how does a Mother actually exists as a Real Personality which God created for Him to be a Wife. And who is establishes the New Jerusalem or Family Life of God on earth?
https://kingdomofgod248585524.wordpress.com/
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Johan
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #6[Replying to Johan in post #5]
In this post we can see the Creation of Jesus. Where a Mother takes the Word of Jesus in Scripture which is the Living Word, to create the Living Person of Jesus. As this thread tells us. [
viewtopic.php?t=42690
And this the divination spirit which speaks the truth only, can not do. So listening to the Divination Spirit can not create you to be Jesus. Because it is not a Mother and The Father but just a "divination spirit" speaking truth.
viewtopic.php?p=1180219#p1180219
In this post we can see the Creation of Jesus. Where a Mother takes the Word of Jesus in Scripture which is the Living Word, to create the Living Person of Jesus. As this thread tells us. [
viewtopic.php?t=42690
And this the divination spirit which speaks the truth only, can not do. So listening to the Divination Spirit can not create you to be Jesus. Because it is not a Mother and The Father but just a "divination spirit" speaking truth.
viewtopic.php?p=1180219#p1180219
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Johan
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #7[Replying to Johan in post #6]
This Life is a Creation from God in those who are ready to enter Adult Life in being a Bride and a Wife to God. Those enter the "House of the Universe". Where they don't have a physical family life but the Spiritual Family Life of God in having "many houses" belonging to their Kids.
viewtopic.php?p=1180995#p1180995
This Life is a Creation from God in those who are ready to enter Adult Life in being a Bride and a Wife to God. Those enter the "House of the Universe". Where they don't have a physical family life but the Spiritual Family Life of God in having "many houses" belonging to their Kids.
viewtopic.php?p=1180995#p1180995
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BruceLeiter
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Re: The Wife and Mother
Post #8[Replying to Johan in post #7]
Are you a Mormon, @Johan, because the Mormons believe that Father-God had babies' spirits with a Mother-God, according to ex-Mormons. They have it wrong. There is no Mother-God. The Bible doesn't support such a belief.
Are you a Mormon, @Johan, because the Mormons believe that Father-God had babies' spirits with a Mother-God, according to ex-Mormons. They have it wrong. There is no Mother-God. The Bible doesn't support such a belief.
