Condomnation

[jcrawford]

NEW YORK -- After Catholic leaders chastised city officials for a free condom program that they said was immoral, Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Friday defended the initiative as a "real world" tactic to combat HIV and AIDS.

"This is not an issue of faith, this is a health issue for the city," he said on his weekly radio show.

Cardinal Edward Egan, head of the Archdiocese of New York, and Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn released a joint statement on Thursday that said City Hall leaders "fail to protect the moral tone of our community when they encourage inappropriate sexual activity by blanketing our neighborhoods with condoms."

"The taxpayer money that is being spent to distribute condoms and promote the attitude that anything goes would be far better spent in fostering what is true and what is decent," said the statement from Egan and DiMarzio.

Bloomberg said Egan and DiMarzio, who together serve more than 4 million Catholics, have the right to communicate to their followers what they feel is proper behavior. But, he added, the city is trying to find ways to reduce its rates of HIV and AIDS, and other sexually transmitted diseases.

"They should preach to their congregants what they think is the appropriate ways to live your lives, but the health department has to work with the real world of people not practicing protected sex, not practicing abstinence, and this is a ways to keep people alive."

http://www.newsday.com/.../condomcondemnatio0216feb16,0,449731.story

Questions for discussion and debate:

Is it proper behavior on the part of Bloomberg to work only with people not practicing protected sex and to tell the Catholic church and all other Christians to mind their own business, because he thinks he is saving lives while the church is only concerned with saved souls.

How does Bloomberg know who is not practicing protected sex in the first place and what business is it of his what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.

Isn't it time for this snooty little politician to get his big nose out of the public's private sex lives and to stop handing out condoms to Christian and Muslim schoolchildren on street corners and in public schools?

Have Bloomberg and his Health Commissioner Frieden, no morals or ethics at all but have become totally depraved and morally bankrupt while living in the "real world" of secular interests and unprotected sex?

Edited to shorten URL preventing extra wide page.

[Wyvern]

Is it proper behavior on the part of Bloomberg to work only with people not practicing protected sex and to tell the Catholic church and all other Christians to mind their own business, because he thinks he is saving lives while the church is only concerned with saved souls.

How does Bloomberg know who is not practicing protected sex in the first place and what business is it of his what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.

Isn't it time for this snooty little politician to get his big nose out of the public's private sex lives and to stop handing out condoms to Christian and Muslim schoolchildren on street corners and in public schools?

Have Bloomberg and his Health Commissioner Frieden, no morals or ethics at all but have become totally depraved and morally bankrupt while living in the "real world" of secular interests and unprotected sex?

This all boils down to the old saying,"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". In other words as a taxpayer would you rather pay a few pennies for something which could potentially prevent someone getting an illness which can cost thousands of dollars a year just for the meds to keep the illness at bay, or would you rather these people get infected and then you get the honor of helping to pay for their treatment in the form of higher taxes and higher HMO fees. It's kinda hard to take the moral high ground when the taxpayers aren't willing to pay for it.

This issue is no different than how many municipalities are now banning smoking in public and now even trans fats, it's all about trying to save money by trying to prevent disease instead of merely treating it. BTW why do you jump to the conclusion that this program targeted only muslim and christian schoolchildren?

[Confused]

To believe any of your assertions, you must first show me any statistics of how many high school seniors are still virgins? You say it is better to preach morality, like this isn't something already being done. The fact is, people are having sex. The government has no business in telling them not to or that it is ok. However, the CDC has a obligation to protect the public from infectious diseases. Not advocating condomns is the equivalent of not handing out gas masks should a foreign country attack the US with biological agents such as smallpox. This is their job. Perhaps that isn't the best example. Instead lets use the CDC administering anti-malaria medications to anyone going to areas in which it is prevalent. Should we tell them to mind their own business and allow us to make the choice to go to these places unprotected, become a carrier, then bring it back to the US to spread it amongst the population here?

Once again, extremes. Why can there never be a middle ground? Politics and religion don't mix. It isn't under religious reasons condoms are distributed. It isn't under political reasons. It is under health management reasons. Disease prevention. It is your job as a parent to ensure your child opts not to have sex if that is your choice. However, it is societies job to ensure that if she does, she doesn't contract or spread the STD's that currently are becoming more and more resistant to anibiotics and antiviral medications.

[micatala]

Is it proper behavior on the part of Bloomberg to work only with people not practicing protected sex and to tell the Catholic church and all other Christians to mind their own business, because he thinks he is saving lives while the church is only concerned with saved souls.

This is not an accurate characterization of what Bloomberg is doing, according to the article.

Is it proper for a member of the clergy to make false statements about the motivation of the mayor? Would that be considered good Christian practice?

How does Bloomberg know who is not practicing protected sex in the first place

He doesn't. He might have an idea of how many are engaging in unprotected sex by how many people are contracting STDs.

and what business is it of his what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.

None. He never said it was. He is simply providing an option for those who are choosing to do whatever he doesn't know about in a safer manner.

Isn't it time for this snooty little politician to get his big nose out of the public's private sex lives and to stop handing out condoms to Christian and Muslim schoolchildren on street corners and in public schools?

Isn't time we had OP's that didn't mischaracterize peoples motives and actions?

Have Bloomberg and his Health Commissioner Frieden, no morals or ethics at all but have become totally depraved and morally bankrupt while living in the "real world" of secular interests and unprotected sex?

Which are you upset about, that people are having unprotected sex or that they are having protected sex?

[Cathar1950]

Maybe some of them are born again virgins?
I wonder how many get pregnant because they were practicing abstinence?
It isnt something you practice like youre going to get better.
The complaint is one of those silly things some do. They would rather have them get some STD or pregnant to pay for their sin that they claim everyone is tainted with then be practical.

[jcrawford]

This all boils down to the old saying,"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

No one is curing anything by handing out condoms to teenagers. Rather are they encouraging teenage fornication without the parents consent.

In other words as a taxpayer would you rather pay a few pennies for something which could potentially prevent someone getting an illness which can cost thousands of dollars a year just for the meds to keep the illness at bay, or would you rather these people get infected and then you get the honor of helping to pay for their treatment in the form of higher taxes and higher HMO fees.

If teenagers get sexual infections then their parents have to pay for the medication, or send the bill to Bloomberg, not to you or me, since we are not responsible for ecouraging teenagers to have sex, are we? At least I am not.

It's kinda hard to take the moral high ground when the taxpayers aren't willing to pay for it.

Taxpayers don't have pay for hare-brained sex schemes which anti-Christian secular mayors like Bloomberg dream up.

This issue is no different than how many municipalities are now banning smoking in public and now even trans fats, it's all about trying to save money by trying to prevent disease instead of merely treating it.

Then ban teenage sex and fornication instead of encouraging it.

BTW why do you jump to the conclusion that this program targeted only muslim and christian schoolchildren?

It didn't and only the Roman Catholic Archiocese and a few Protestants like me complained.

The stinking secular mayor effectively told us to mind our own business.

[Cathar1950]

Banning teenage sex is like banning breathing. There is only so long you can hold your breath.
Now if they were getting married as in biblical day at 12 and 13 I guess we wouldnt have to worry about it. But shacking your finger at them and pretending they just need to say no is no help at all and it is only you that think you have taken some imaginary high ground. Handing out condoms is not promoting or endorsing sex, that is going to happen rather you like it or not. It is being responsible as we can expect humans to get.

Rather are they encouraging teenage fornication without the parents consent.

Do you think kids are going to get their parents consent to have sex?
It doesnt need to be encouraged and it isnt going to stop.
Do you sit around thinking and worrying about teenage sex a lot?
Do you think they should have their parents consent?
What kind of dream world do you live in?

The stinking secular mayor effectively told us to mind our own business.

[sarcasm]Good advise, kids should just learn about sex at home or from their ministers.[sarcasm]
Dont you have anything else to complain about?

[jcrawford]

The fact is, people are having sex. The government has no business in telling them not to or that it is ok.

Government has every right to stop teenagers from smoking, drinking, abusing drugs, fighting and fornicating, and it is government neglect to allow kids to break the law.

However, the CDC has a obligation to protect the public from infectious diseases.

The citizens have an obligation to protect themselves from infected persons.

Not advocating condomns is the equivalent of not handing out gas masks should a foreign country attack the US with biological agents such as smallpox.

Then hand out pistols so that the citizens can protect themselves from juvenile delinquents with guns or hand out education vouchers so that parents can transfer their kids from public schools to private schools.

Politics and religion don't mix.

This is the Politics and Religion Forum.

It is your job as a parent to ensure your child opts not to have sex if that is your choice.

How can parents ensure that their children don't fornicate when perverted secular mayors encourage them by handing out free condoms?

However, it is societies job to ensure that if she does, she doesn't contract or spread the STD's that currently are becoming more and more resistant to anibiotics and antiviral medications.

The more condoms that Bloomberg hands out to kids - the more they will get infectious diseases.

I accuse Bloomberg of encouraging teenage fornication against parental consent and using public monies for that purpose.

[Cathar1950]

The problem of standing on soapboxes is they are not all that sturdy today.
I am sure you love to applaud yourself for you high moral character and prudish, puritanical and Victorian mindset but school vouchers are not the answer.
Christians and Christians schools along with Christian homes and demanding parents are not immune to the human drive for sexuality and its expression.

You act as if, despite the fact that its irrelevant, they just had a law that required needed parents permission to have sex then everything would be fine. What you would have is most of the population behind bars. Why not if they get caught just make them wear a sign that says "fornicator" on it?
If we transferred money from public schools to private schools we would have a bunch of messed up people teaching messed up ideas to poor people because the rich would still go to better schools.

How can parents ensure that their children don't fornicate when perverted secular mayors encourage them by handing out free condoms?

They dont and cant anyway. You just want to make sure they dont have condoms.

The more condoms that Bloomberg hands out to kids - the more they will get infectious diseases.

Prove that please.

I accuse Bloomberg of encouraging teenage fornication against parental consent and using public monies for that purpose.

No one is encouraging teenage fornication. and Parental consent is nonsense.
I accuse you of being a crackpot and wasting public monies on nonsense and wasting tax dollars because some poor public official has to read your complaint.

[Goat]

The problem of standing on soapboxes is they are not all that sturdy today.
I am sure you love to applaud yourself for you high moral character and prudish, puritanical and Victorian mindset but school vouchers are not the answer.
Christians and Christians schools along with Christian homes and demanding parents are not immune to the human drive for sexuality and its expression.

You act as if, despite the fact that its irrelevant, they just had a law that required needed parents permission to have sex then everything would be fine. What you would have is most of the population behind bars. Why not if they get caught just make them wear a sign that says "fornicator" on it?
If we transferred money from public schools to private schools we would have a bunch of messed up people teaching messed up ideas to poor people because the rich would still go to better schools.

How can parents ensure that their children don't fornicate when perverted secular mayors encourage them by handing out free condoms?

They dont and cant anyway. You just want to make sure they dont have condoms.

The more condoms that Bloomberg hands out to kids - the more they will get infectious diseases.

Prove that please.

I accuse Bloomberg of encouraging teenage fornication against parental consent and using public monies for that purpose.

No one is encouraging teenage fornication. and Parental consent is nonsense.
I accuse you of being a crackpot and wasting public monies on nonsense and wasting tax dollars because some poor public official has to read your complaint.

Of course, you know what we call parents who discourage the use of condoms by their teenage kids? Grandparents.