Thoughts from Beyond the Borders of DC&R...

[mister_lee]

I found this posted on a blog by one of my favorite hip-hop groups, Jedi Mind Tricks. I spend a lot of time reading posts of this board and truly I get a lot out of it. What I found interesting was the scope of certain feelings, conceptions or misconceptions about Christians, especially those labeled fundamentalist.

Here is the top ten list as related by a member of the group:

Fundamentalist Christians

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Questions for Debate:

1) Disregarding personal beliefs about biblical stories, Christians, in general profess that Christianity is a religion of love. If nearly all Christians agree with this notion. why are there so many people, some even believers in Christ, that view the religion, and many followers, as anything but loving?

A recent poll asked non-believers to convey the first thing that comes to mind when he/she thinks of a Christian. The top three were: 1) Judgemental 2) Hypocrite 3) Gay haters.

There is undoubtedly a little bias here, but the labels are not without warrant entirely.

2) Why is there so much disregard for one of the fundamental teachings by Christ? Not just a lesson, but something He commanded of His followers: LOVE others as much as GOD LOVES YOU.

[mister_lee]

Here is an interesting retort in response to this blog:

"I disagree with just about everything youve said.

#10 - lol..... this is because they have something called "faith" something most people lack.

#9 - huge difference. According to the theory of evolution we also came from dirt then. A big ball of gas dust and little particles was floating around and it decided to go kaboom!! the big bang theory! where did thoes particles of dust and shit come from? oh i forgot, its not even proven its still a theory. nothing but a good idea. Now, christians belive they didnt just come from dirt. There was a creator behind it. God. Dirt just didnt start taking shape of a human and start breathing.

#8 haha, this dosnt even make sense.







#7 if you had a dog and all that dog did was shit in your house, rip your shoes, bite your neighbors and piss on your clothes all day everyday. you would get rid of your god. but if your dog was a good dog you'd keep it around. think about that. if God's creations (us people) are misbehaving and rejecting God, his creations must be punished.
.



#6 first off, i dont know of one christian who laughs at anybody's religion. and whats wrong with believing that the Virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus, Died, and rose again? I dont know of ONE historical account of a 9 armed elephant roaming the earth. I dont know of ONE account of zeus walking amongst the greek people. But i do know that there have been historical accounts that a man named Jesus did roam the earth and performed miracles. Weather he was God or a prophet, he still roamed the earth. He didnt just die either, he died to save us. He washed away our sins with his own blood.


#5 First off i think scientists look for loopholes in relgion. We know the age of the earth by looking at rocks and rings around a tree. We know the age of the earth by digging up bones. (by the way, scientists belive they made a breakthrough because they found the bones of a prehistoric human and can support the theory of evolution. too bad they found out it was the bones form a Wild Boar.) And Christians dont believe the accounts of just tribesmen. They believe that God was speaking through the "tribesmen"


#4 Since God created humans, its natural that he would expect us to acknowledge him as our creator, our God. If we reject him, its natural that he would also reject us and banish us from his kingdom.


#3 There is a Spiritual world amongst the physical. And just because he speaks in tongues dosnt mean hes Christian. It can be the devil.

#2 I partially agree with this.... but this is how i view it. We cant think at God's level. If he wants to take the life of a 5 year old because It was the child's time, then he takes the child. As humans its hard to accept that fact but we have to remember, we cannot think at Gods level. Its like a 5 year old trying to understand how to do open heart surgery. And as for prayer, what do most people pray about? them selves. thats the biggest problem.

#1 thats true but atheists and agnostics know the bible, history of the bible and history of Christianity and Church history. True Christians have "faith". they don't need to read through stacks of books and essays or what not to justify their religion.



If you were religious, i dont know if you are. You should understand because all the things you have stated to assassinate Christianity are issues of Faith"

[katiej49]

I found this posted on a blog by one of my favorite hip-hop groups, Jedi Mind Tricks. I spend a lot of time reading posts of this board and truly I get a lot out of it. What I found interesting was the scope of certain feelings, conceptions or misconceptions about Christians, especially those labeled fundamentalist.

Here is the top ten list as related by a member of the group:

Fundamentalist Christians

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.


mr lee, you have covered a lot of area here, but i would like to respond to some of them (cant get to all of them at once lol)...i do enjoy my discussions with you .....ok....first of all, i dont feel outrage, more a sadness, that others dont worship God. there is no other way. I dont want anyone to go to hell

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

i've dont feel dehumanized. i am Gods child. "what can man do to me"

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

i laugh at no one. everyone is important , every human heart aches for the same things that mine aches for......i never make fun of anyone

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

I dont like injustice. a just God killing those who would wipe out the race that would bring about the messiah......tough stuff for even us Christians, but He is sovereign.....i dont call the shots

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.


speaking in tongues isnt something i do.....some do, its one of the gifts...i dont have it

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

you can know about the faith, study the history, read the Bible 100 times and miss Jesus

Questions for Debate:

1) Disregarding personal beliefs about biblical stories, Christians, in general profess that Christianity is a religion of love. If nearly all Christians agree with this notion. why are there so many people, some even believers in Christ, that view the religion, and many followers, as anything but loving?


because Christians sometimes act like jackasses. dont judge a perfect God by His bumbling children. we screw up. big time.......forgive us

A recent poll asked non-believers to convey the first thing that comes to mind when he/she thinks of a Christian. The top three were: 1) Judgemental 2) Hypocrite 3) Gay haters.



There is undoubtedly a little bias here, but the labels are not without warrant entirely.

2) Why is there so much disregard for one of the fundamental teachings by Christ? Not just a lesson, but something He commanded of His followers: LOVE others as much as GOD LOVES YOU.

i do love you. i care. if i didnt i wouldnt take time to answer this.....blessings

[mister_lee]

I found this posted on a blog by one of my favorite hip-hop groups, Jedi Mind Tricks. I spend a lot of time reading posts of this board and truly I get a lot out of it. What I found interesting was the scope of certain feelings, conceptions or misconceptions about Christians, especially those labeled fundamentalist.

Here is the top ten list as related by a member of the group:

Fundamentalist Christians

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.


mr lee, you have covered a lot of area here, but i would like to respond to some of them (cant get to all of them at once lol)...i do enjoy my discussions with you .....ok....first of all, i dont feel outrage, more a sadness, that others dont worship God. there is no other way. I dont want anyone to go to hell



i do love you. i care. if i didnt i wouldnt take time to answer this.....blessings

Thank you Katie, I enjoy them as well. What saddens me, is not that people don't believe in God, let alone worship a God, it's that one of the biggest reasons people don't is because of other people, the actions of a large number of religious followers.

What's encouraging though, is there seems to be a growing number of people who have stepped out the box, a box created over the last millinium that has confined and enslaved humanity. It is the example of individuals showering the world with love and hope that will one day lead to humanity true evolution.

[micatala]

THis could be an interesting thread, but as there is really no topic for debate, I am moving it to Random Ramblings.

[mister_lee]

THis could be an interesting thread, but as there is really no topic for debate, I am moving it to Random Ramblings.

The questions for debate were listed at the bottom:

Questions for Debate:

1) Disregarding personal beliefs about biblical stories, Christians, in general profess that Christianity is a religion of love. If nearly all Christians agree with this notion. why are there so many people, some even believers in Christ, that view the religion, and many followers, as anything but loving?

A recent poll asked non-believers to convey the first thing that comes to mind when he/she thinks of a Christian. The top three were: 1) Judgemental 2) Hypocrite 3) Gay haters.

There is undoubtedly a little bias here, but the labels are not without warrant entirely.

2) Why is there so much disregard for one of the fundamental teachings by Christ? Not just a lesson, but something He commanded of His followers: LOVE others as much as GOD LOVES YOU.

[katiej49]

THis could be an interesting thread, but as there is really no topic for debate, I am moving it to Random Ramblings.

The questions for debate were listed at the bottom:

Questions for Debate:

1) Disregarding personal beliefs about biblical stories, Christians, in general profess that Christianity is a religion of love. If nearly all Christians agree with this notion. why are there so many people, some even believers in Christ, that view the religion, and many followers, as anything but loving?

A recent poll asked non-believers to convey the first thing that comes to mind when he/she thinks of a Christian. The top three were: 1) Judgemental 2) Hypocrite 3) Gay haters.

There is undoubtedly a little bias here, but the labels are not without warrant entirely.

2) Why is there so much disregard for one of the fundamental teachings by Christ? Not just a lesson, but something He commanded of His followers: LOVE others as much as GOD LOVES YOU.

i've known many loving and caring Christians throughout my entire life. i also dont know a single Christian who hates gays (spare me the examples of the extreme fanatics who stand on corners and hold "god hates fags" signs, they are not the norm and everyone knows that) ......i've known Christians who do all kinds of charitable work with the poor, in hospitals, non profit groups......and who quietly show the love of Christ to others. where do you get the idea that most Christians are not loving?

[Goat]

THis could be an interesting thread, but as there is really no topic for debate, I am moving it to Random Ramblings.

The questions for debate were listed at the bottom:

Questions for Debate:

1) Disregarding personal beliefs about biblical stories, Christians, in general profess that Christianity is a religion of love. If nearly all Christians agree with this notion. why are there so many people, some even believers in Christ, that view the religion, and many followers, as anything but loving?

A recent poll asked non-believers to convey the first thing that comes to mind when he/she thinks of a Christian. The top three were: 1) Judgemental 2) Hypocrite 3) Gay haters.

There is undoubtedly a little bias here, but the labels are not without warrant entirely.

2) Why is there so much disregard for one of the fundamental teachings by Christ? Not just a lesson, but something He commanded of His followers: LOVE others as much as GOD LOVES YOU.

i've known many loving and caring Christians throughout my entire life. i also dont know a single Christian who hates gays (spare me the examples of the extreme fanatics who stand on corners and hold "god hates fags" signs, they are not the norm and everyone knows that) ......i've known Christians who do all kinds of charitable work with the poor, in hospitals, non profit groups......and who quietly show the love of Christ to others. where do you get the idea that most Christians are not loving?

When it comes to 'hate gays', I only have actions and words in the forums to judge people by. From my observation, there are christians on this very forum, who will deny they 'hate' gays, but their actions and words makes that very claim a model of hypocracy.

[sledheavy]

THis could be an interesting thread, but as there is really no topic for debate, I am moving it to Random Ramblings.

The questions for debate were listed at the bottom:

Questions for Debate:

1) Disregarding personal beliefs about biblical stories, Christians, in general profess that Christianity is a religion of love. If nearly all Christians agree with this notion. why are there so many people, some even believers in Christ, that view the religion, and many followers, as anything but loving?

A recent poll asked non-believers to convey the first thing that comes to mind when he/she thinks of a Christian. The top three were: 1) Judgemental 2) Hypocrite 3) Gay haters.

There is undoubtedly a little bias here, but the labels are not without warrant entirely.

2) Why is there so much disregard for one of the fundamental teachings by Christ? Not just a lesson, but something He commanded of His followers: LOVE others as much as GOD LOVES YOU.

i've known many loving and caring Christians throughout my entire life. i also dont know a single Christian who hates gays (spare me the examples of the extreme fanatics who stand on corners and hold "god hates fags" signs, they are not the norm and everyone knows that) ......i've known Christians who do all kinds of charitable work with the poor, in hospitals, non profit groups......and who quietly show the love of Christ to others. where do you get the idea that most Christians are not loving?

There had been instances for me that I think really brought the integrity of the christian mindset into question. Such as that at my high school, students could still go to school being from other religions as long as they signed a declaration of faith.

So ironically, the best basketball player on the team was mormon. Other parents from other schools found out, and actually came with signs saying that he was going to hell, and boo'd him everytime he stepped on court.

I think what's at fault there is more the collected mass of people. Being that when a lot of people are together without any knowingly agreeable concensious they tend to look like idiots.

Individually, we can find a more rational or irrational sense of behavior. But with christianity, people are looking more for bad apples, as they would any religion.

When we encounter a political standpoint, I think is where the ideas get sketchy, because people back their opinions and views on a religious standpoint. And whenever I have a heated conversation face to face, it ALWAYS goes back to the root of the belief system.

Not to say this is bad, but it's one thing that really bothers me. I know what christians believe on the topic, I want to hear what that person actually believes from a general standpoint.

Something to the effect of "well I know that in the bible it says homosexuality is wrong, but I'm still a firm believer of equality."

The majority of the time it seems that when anyone of any religion uses propaganda to influence their political party, these topics just become more and more a problem in making people look bad. And that could be said on both sides.

But the comments illustrated do seem overly judgemental.

[micatala]

After discussion with Mr Lee, the thread has been returned to the Christianity and Apologetics forum.

My apologies for any confusion.