Saved by the Grace of God???

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:20 pm

So, this has always perplexed me and I am hoping someone might actually be able to give me a clear and concise explanation. Often, we hear of events that lead to the death of one or more people, yet the survivors are quoted as saying things such as "It was only by the grace of God that I stand here today". Now, to me, this implies the person is somehow more important than those who died. Yet if we are all created equal, then no life is greater than another. Often serial killers murder 3+ people, but the last one gets away which leads to the arrest and conviction of the killer. The survivor, once again, attests to the grace of God being the reason they are alive to tell the story. How does this coincide with this God of the bible?

So for debate:
1) What is the grace of God? Is there some rational reason why some get it and some don't? What does it mean to be saved by the Grace of God?
2) Does the God in the bible really offer grace? Or does He merely offer suffering in this life for eternal rewards in the next?

(Please, if you can't creatively answer this, don't use the generic "God works in mysterious ways".)

joer · Post by **joer** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:44 am

Peace be with you Confused.

It's always GOOD to read your posts.

I enjoy them because a I feel an integrity and honesty within them that calls out to one to answer.

1) What is the grace of God? Is there some rational reason why some get it and some don't? What does it mean to be saved by the Grace of God?
2) Does the God in the bible really offer grace? Or does He merely offer suffering in this life for eternal rewards in the next?

You ask : 1) What is the grace of God? Most literally I would say the grace of God is the Spirit of God or the Will of God. While both the Sprit and Will are almost synonymous, I do believe there are distinctions which delineate as well as overlap when considering the two. While that is simple the application of the Grace of God is infinite. So the uniqueness of how the Grace of God applies to individuals is an indication of the uniqueness of the interaction of that individual with the grace of God.

So that is some rationale that may apply to your second question: Is there some rational reason why some get it and some don't? By looking at the rationale you can see that the distinctions you make “some do and some don’t” (receive the grace of God) is actually a distinction in HOW they both receive the grace of God. If your concept of God contains an individual’s eternal progression to God Union, then certainly ones death on this planet is not an indication of ones “lack” of the grace of God. It only indicates a translation to the next level of progression. The interaction of that individual with the grace of God is generally independent of the death of the individual’s earthly body. So What does it mean to be saved by the Grace of God? Simply it means for some natural reason that may or may not have to do with your interaction with God, it wasn’t your time.

Occasionally we may find that solely on the individual’s interaction with God, "through the grace of God" is an occurrence that appears to us to be beyond natural processes. But because of our limited knowledge of what is possible and what we can naturally do through Faith and our interaction with God their may be a natural explanation that awaits our discovery. Clearly in our ages past we would credit one being saved and one being taken to one being better than the other or having favor with God. BUT THOSE DAYS ARE PAST.

2) Does the God in the bible really offer grace? Yes. You’ll notice in this search on the grace of God in the ASV of the bible. (See below) It only occurs in the new testament. That is an indication of the Spirit of truth that Jesus mentioned is poured out on all flesh. It is still functioning today confused with me and you.

? Or does He merely offer suffering in this life for eternal rewards in the next?

This is not true. We may gain strength, courage, confidence, fortitude, spiritual growth from things (trials and tribulations) we suffer through in this life but our rewards for overcoming these hardships are as evident here as they will be there. It’s just a natural consequence for getting through those tough things we have to face in life... this one OR the next.

Search Results for 'grace of God' in the ASV version

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Acts 11:23 who, when he was come, and had seen the grace of God, was glad; and he exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord:
Acts 13:43 Now when the synagogue broke up, many of the Jews and of the devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas; who, speaking to them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.
Acts 14:26 and thence they sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been committed to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled.
Acts 20:24 But I hold not my life of any account as dear unto myself, so that I may accomplish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Romans 5:15 But not as the trespass, so also [is] the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.
1 Cor 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you, for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus;
1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder I laid a foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let each man take heed how he buildeth thereon.
1 Cor 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not found vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
2 Cor 1:12 . For our glorifying is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and sincerity of God, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we behaved ourselves in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
2 Cor 6:1 And working together [with him] we entreat also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain
2 Cor 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we make known to you the grace of God which hath been given in the churches of Macedonia;
2 Cor 9:14 while they themselves also, with supplication on your behalf, long after you by reason of the exceeding grace of God in you.
Galatians 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.
Ephesians 3:2 if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;
Ephesians 3:7 whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power.
Coloss 1:6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as [it doth] in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
Titus 2:11 . For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Hebrews 2:9 But we behold him who hath been made a little lower than the angels, [even] Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for every [man].
Hebrews 12:15 looking carefully lest [there be] any man that falleth short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby the many be defiled;
1 Peter 4:10 according as each hath received a gift, ministering it among yourselves, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God;
1 Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, our faithful brother, as I account [him], I have written unto you briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Stand ye fast therein.

So you can see if you substitute Will of God or Spirit of God for Grace of God it still makes sense in almost all if not all instances.

Thank You Confused!

Good Will be with you.

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:17 am

[quote="Confused"]So, this has always perplexed me and I am hoping someone might actually be able to give me a clear and concise explanation. Often, we hear of events that lead to the death of one or more people, yet the survivors are quoted as saying things such as "It was only by the grace of God that I stand here today". Now, to me, this implies the person is somehow more important than those who died. Yet if we are all created equal, then no life is greater than another. Often serial killers murder 3+ people, but the last one gets away which leads to the arrest and conviction of the killer. The survivor, once again, attests to the grace of God being the reason they are alive to tell the story. How does this coincide with this God of the bible?

So for debate:
1) What is the grace of God? Is there some rational reason why some get it and some don't? What does it mean to be saved by the Grace of God?
2) Does the God in the bible really offer grace? Or does He merely offer suffering in this life for eternal rewards in the next?

God has a plan for each life. Why does He allow some to be killed and some to live? We dont know. For the Christian, "to live is Christ and to die is gain". Dying isnt something at all to be feared if you believe in Jesus. Yes He really offers grace! Some are called to suffer in this life. I dont know why. My mother suffered greatly through many years of physical illness. She pondered, wondered, suffered, prayed and yet never lost faith. Great is the reward of such as her, I believe. She didnt believe to get rewards, she simply believed. and she is now in the presence of Jesus in perfect peace and joy, with no pain. so that is GRACE!...blessings

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:39 am

to live is Christ and to die is gain".

So, you GAIN when you die. Death looks like a pretty nifty thing then. I wonder if this mindset might affect the decisions people make.....toward war etc....

God has a plan for each life.

How do you know? How do you find out what this plan is? Or is it secret?

She pondered, wondered, suffered, prayed and yet never lost faith.

So she never go an answer, never actually heard from God - did not get better via the prayer. Doesn't sound very good to me.

and she is now in the presence of Jesus in perfect peace and joy, with no pain.

How do you know this for sure?

She didn't believe to get rewards, she simply believed

I don't believe this is true. It makes no sense. If she was not asking any favors from God, then why pray? Just to praise and make Him happy? Obtaining God's happeniness is most certainly an important goal.

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:02 am

Cmass wrote:
to live is Christ and to die is gain".
So, you GAIN when you die. Death looks like a pretty nifty thing then. I wonder if this mindset might affect the decisions people make.....toward war etc....

why would believing in heaven make you want to go to war?

God has a plan for each life.
How do you know? How do you find out what this plan is? Or is it secret?

"to live is Christ" is the plan.....He doesnt give a blueprint of life though....what profession to choose, to marry or not, to have children etc....He gives us choices, life has its unexpected twists and turns....a fascinating adventure for sure

She pondered, wondered, suffered, prayed and yet never lost faith.
So she never go an answer, never actually heard from God - did not get better via the prayer. Doesn't sound very good to me.

well she lived years longer than she should have considering her health....would you call that answered prayer? i did......

and she is now in the presence of Jesus in perfect peace and joy, with no pain.
How do you know this for sure?

She didn't believe to get rewards, she simply believed
I don't believe this is true. It makes no sense. If she was not asking any favors from God, then why pray? Just to praise and make Him happy? Obtaining God's happeniness is most certainly an important goal.

yes. to praise Him. to Him be the glory

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:04 am

and she is now in the presence of Jesus in perfect peace and joy, with no pain.

How do you know this for sure?

besides my faith, she saw Jesus before she died. she saw heaven and angels.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:58 am

katiej49 wrote:
and she is now in the presence of Jesus in perfect peace and joy, with no pain.
How do you know this for sure?

besides my faith, she saw Jesus before she died. she saw heaven and angels.

When the body is shutting down, it is not uncommon for hallucinations to happen.

I wonder why you don't see any Hindu's or Buddhists have visions of Jesus as they are dying.

Beta · Post by **Beta** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:14 pm

The Grace of God means pardon from the death-sentence for the sinner. God introduced Grace or pardon for every sinner who repents and is prepared to make a new start in obedience to God.
Disobedience was the downfall of mankind and our enslavement to sin. The Grace of God through Jesus Christ annulls that situation and we can start afresh, beginning with the 10 Commandments and better things will follow from there.

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:42 pm

.

Beta wrote:The Grace of God means pardon from the death-sentence for the sinner. God introduced Grace or pardon for every sinner who repents and is prepared to make a new start in obedience to God.

Disobedience was the downfall of mankind and our enslavement to sin. The Grace of God through Jesus Christ annulls that situation and we can start afresh, beginning with the 10 Commandments and better things will follow from there.

Your statements seem to be presented as truth, when in fact they are opinion – UNLESS you can verify those claims using sources other than the bible.

"Grace of god" means "salvation" from a supposed "damnation" in an "afterlife", all supposedly arranged by the god in question.

Not a bad sales pitch. Create a "need" and offer a "solution" -- and make a profit.

"Disobedience" is in the eye of the clerics. Different "prophets" for different organized, commercial religions have different requirements. Which, if any, are real and how is that known beyond all doubt?

Beta · Post by **Beta** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:49 pm

What do you mean ' using sources other than the Bible ?'
Is this not a 'Christian forum ?' Is not Jesus Christ the Word of God our original source ???

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