A speculation about Hell

cnorman18 · Post by **cnorman18** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:56 pm

A long time ago--I forget where or when--I read, in a book on "near-death experiences," that many people live through a sort of "review" of their lives at the moment of death. Some said that the experience seemed to last a mere fraction of a second, and at the same time it seemed to last for years. This may be where that bit of folklore about one's "life passing before one's eyes" when close to death may come from.

One or two sixh reports piqued my interest; these people reported that this "review" did not take place from one's own perspective, but from that of others. One experienced, from their point of view, exactly how one had affected their lives, from the inside, as it were; and not only the people one had actually met, but all those whose lives one had touched indirectly as well.

One relived the moments that one had created in others' lives as those people experienced them. The more power one had, and the more people one had affected in life, the longer such a review would have to be.

If one was kind and charitable, such a review would be mostly pleasant; if one was cold and callous, less so; if one was cruel or sadistic, quite unpleasant indeed. It turns out that we are all connected, and each one of really is a part of everyone else.

There seems to be a certain justice in that to me; the ultimate justice, in a way. What you have done unto others becomes what you have done to yourself. You get to find out "How would that feel to you?" in a literal way.

Now consider Hitler.

How long would his review last? Ten million years? Twenty million? A hundred million centuries? Living through the years, even decades, of misery, torment and agonizing death he had inflicted upon so many millions of people worldwide, and knowing and feeling every moment of them from inside each individual person's body and mind, just as it happened...

If that's not Hell, exactly, it strikes me as being pretty damned close. Not eternal--but plenty long enough. Not flames--but perhaps worse than flames.

The greater the criminal, the longer the sentence. The worse the crime, the more severe the punishment--in direct and precise proportion.

I kinda like it. Any comments?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:04 pm

It would be really nice to believe that there is some form of supernatural justice post mortem, wouldn't it?

cnorman18 · Post by **cnorman18** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:32 pm

McCulloch wrote:It would be really nice to believe that there is some form of supernatural justice post mortem, wouldn't it?

Well, of course. That's rather the point, isn't it?

Judaism has nothing to say about the afterlife. One of Maimonides's "13 Points" was a belief in reward and retribution, but he said nothing about what form they might take. There has been some speculation over the centuries, but no Jew, to my knowledge, has ever claimed to have the answer.

I don't even know if this bit of guesswork could be called "supernatural" in the usual religious sense. Perhaps our separate "minds" are all part of one universal field of interdimensional energy, as unknown now as "superstrings" were a few years ago, and when our individual consciousnesses drain back into that ocean, we find out how we have affected the whole.

Beats me. But I find the reports of such experiences interesting and perhaps suggestive. In any case, I think the confident assertion that nothing happens after death at all is just as much without evidence as the assertion that we all wear wings and white bathrobes and learn to play the harp.

The only fact is that no one knows.

servant · Post by **servant** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:50 am

Here is a statistic for you:

10 out of 10 people die. Me, You and everyone else will find out sooner or later what the afterlive holds.

Are you ready to meet your maker?

cnorman18 · Post by **cnorman18** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:16 am

servant wrote:Here is a statistic for you:

10 out of 10 people die. Me, You and everyone else will find out sooner or later what the afterlive holds.

Are you ready to meet your maker?

My very earliest memory--literally the first thing I remember--is running through my house screaming, "I DON'T WANT TO DIE!" I remember it very well; I had fully grasped the idea that one day my consciousness would end, that I would go to sleep and never wake up; and it scared me silly.

Most people, I am told, never really confront their own mortality till they are in their 30s. I was no older than three.

My mother and my older sister both confirmed this episode, and that I was distraught for several days. It was probably prompted by the death of my paternal grandmother, who died at about that time. The consciousness that my time is limited has never left me; I would often speak of it even as a small child, I am told, which could be rather disconcerting to my parents' friends. I suppose I fiind a way to accept it then, because I have had no fear of death since then.

So, yes, you might say I am ready, and have been for a very long time.

More than ready; for most of that time I was eager. I have suffered from chronic severe depression for most of my life, and like many such people, I spent years on end literally longing for death. Very often, the only thing--the only thing--that stayed my hand from taking my own life was religious conviction. I did not know what the consequences of suicide would be in the next life--indeed, I did not know then, as I do not know now, that there is a next life--but I did not care to take a gamble of quite that magnitude. But I prayed to be allowed to die, and very often indeed.

I still struggle with depression from time to time, but with the help of a course in cognitive therapy, I have learned to counter those feelings and defeat them, or at worst ride it out till the storm passes.

(If anyone reading this has chronic depression, you know what I am talking about--that it's much, much more than just feeling "down in the dumps" for a while. If you haven't already, see a doctor. Ask specifically about cognitive therapy; it can and will change your life, and is more effective than medication, though medication might be helpful at the beginning of treatment. Don't our it off; this condition can be life-threatening in the extreme.)

Now that we've gotten all that out of the way, do you have any comments about my OP?

servant · Post by **servant** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:16 am

I base my believes on what the bible says about Hell. Separation from God, gnashing of teeth, uncomfort behind anything we can imagine. So with that being said, your case of what Hell might be like sounds pretty good. Although I would point out that it kind of sounds like you can work off the Hell your describing. Hilter of course would still most likely be working his Hell off were as someone who is just a liar would work their Hell off more quickly. I think this is a flawed idea of what Hell is.

Let me ask you a question if you don't mind. We agree that one day we will die. Lets say there is one God and He is Holy. Lets say that God will punish evil as He is good. If your standing in front of the Holy Judge of the Universe, would He consider you to be innocent or guilty?

By the way, regarding the afterlife.

The only fact is that no one knows.

Thats not true, someone does know.

cnorman18 · Post by **cnorman18** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:56 am

servant wrote:I base my believes on what the bible says about Hell. Separation from God, gnashing of teeth, uncomfort behind anything we can imagine. So with that being said, your case of what Hell might be like sounds pretty good. Although I would point out that it kind of sounds like you can work off the Hell your describing. Hilter of course would still most likely be working his Hell off were as someone who is just a liar would work their Hell off more quickly. I think this is a flawed idea of what Hell is.

Let me ask you a question if you don't mind. We agree that one day we will die. Lets say there is one God and He is Holy. Lets say that God will punish evil as He is good. If your standing in front of the Holy Judge of the Universe, would He consider you to be innocent or guilty?

I have no way of knowing till I stand there. Jews do not presume to know what God's judgment will be for anyone, not even ourselves.

By the way, regarding the afterlife.

The only fact is that no one knows.
Thats not true, someone does know.

Even when I believed that, I noticed that he didn't give any details.

servant · Post by **servant** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:14 pm

I take it your Jewish?

Quote:

By the way, regarding the afterlife.

Quote:
The only fact is that no one knows.

Thats not true, someone does know.

Even when I believed that, I noticed that he didn't give any details.

He does give details. Mark 9:47-48 - Rev. 20:13-15 - Luke 16:19-31

cnorman18 · Post by **cnorman18** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:32 pm

servant wrote:I take it your Jewish?

I am.

I was a Christian until the age of 50, when I converted to Judaism. Thirty-plus years ago, I was a Methodist minister.

I cannot look up the references you provide, since I no longer own a Christian Bible; but, other than a reference to "many mansions", I do not recall Jesus saying much about what Heaven is like.

In any case, though I know a great deal about it from my seminary training, I no longer regard the NT as authoritative.

servant · Post by **servant** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:52 pm

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe there is only one God?