Is the Qu'ran self-evidently true?

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Is the Qu'ran self-evidently true?

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

paarsurrey wrote:Quran is self-evident, yes very truly.
Is the Qu'ran self-evidently true?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #81

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:

No, those websites and my statements are 100% right, you are wrong here sir.
Because, you are thinking the that word (Jinn) is used in Judaism and christianity.
you are wrong, never inyour life you will find that, and you are also thinking that they are not made up off smokeless fire? read bible you will find it aswell
Bloody hell do I have to put in a disclaimer everytime I use the word djinn? I have stated a number of times now my understanding of djinn which is why I said I would accept anything saying satan is made of a smokeless fire. I have read the bible and don't remember anything referring to satan as being made of smokeless fire, so I'll need you to provide me a link for that claim as well. Your statements and the links you gave can not both be correct since they contradict one another.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:7)

Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: (Psalms 104:4)


Where as possesion of human body by other creature has been ovbserved throughout ages. and they call it with different names, in Arabic name, this is called as Jinns.
For your clafication, I willl provide you some more links to study, as you canlt get enough with the links.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/satan.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/a ... buttal.htm

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Post #82

Post by Goat »

TrueReligion wrote:
goat wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
You will show experiment results , but you can;t show them in real:)
Science make its claim on theories and experiments, and assumptions, but many things science could;nt detect in real.
Did anny1 saw in real if ape-man turn into human? or they just made assumptions?
Well, that is a mischaracterisation of evolution if I ever saw one.

We have this thing known as 'fossils'. Fossils are 'Tangible physical and objective evidence'. Do you know what objective means, and evidence means.

The concept that man and apes share a common ancestor is a conclusion based on two main pieces of evidence. The first piece was the fossil evidence, and it was confirmed via looking at the DNA.

Yes, they are claims, but there is actual physical evidence that can be examined.

What do you have for Jinn?
But do fossils provide you approx date? and does those fossil tellyou how big bang hapen? wat was there totaly before millions of years before?ofcourse not, its just assumption, no solid evidence

no it was;nt confirmed:) that theory was already rejected, many scientists are still not accepting it, only rejected scientists and people are believing in that/

We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.
Yes, fossils can be dated by a variety of different methods.. and yes, there is solid evidence.

We have evidence that Islam considers Satan is a kind of Jinn. We have also seen evidence that the concept of Satan is different in Christianity and in Judaism, so none of the three Abrahamic religions have the same concept of Satan.

The one thing that is in common between Satan in all three religions is the equal lack of evidence that Satan is anything more than an allegory.

As for Satan actually doing anything... you have a claim of evidence of Satan, yet you have not presented any other than more unsupported claims.

Do you know what the concept of 'evidence' is?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #83

Post by Wyvern »

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:

No, those websites and my statements are 100% right, you are wrong here sir.
Because, you are thinking the that word (Jinn) is used in Judaism and christianity.
you are wrong, never inyour life you will find that, and you are also thinking that they are not made up off smokeless fire? read bible you will find it aswell
Bloody hell do I have to put in a disclaimer everytime I use the word djinn? I have stated a number of times now my understanding of djinn which is why I said I would accept anything saying satan is made of a smokeless fire. I have read the bible and don't remember anything referring to satan as being made of smokeless fire, so I'll need you to provide me a link for that claim as well. Your statements and the links you gave can not both be correct since they contradict one another.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:7)

Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: (Psalms 104:4)


Where as possesion of human body by other creature has been ovbserved throughout ages. and they call it with different names, in Arabic name, this is called as Jinns.
For your clafication, I willl provide you some more links to study, as you canlt get enough with the links.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/satan.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/a ... buttal.htm
So now according to you christian angels are djinn so then what equivalent creature are islamic angels in the christian pantheon? I get it now all you have to do is change the meanings for everything and it fits together perfectly. Djinn don't exist in the bible, no problem we will just say they are angels. Don't you see how this explanation doesn't work?

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Post #84

Post by TrueReligion »

goat wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
goat wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
You will show experiment results , but you can;t show them in real:)
Science make its claim on theories and experiments, and assumptions, but many things science could;nt detect in real.
Did anny1 saw in real if ape-man turn into human? or they just made assumptions?
Well, that is a mischaracterisation of evolution if I ever saw one.

We have this thing known as 'fossils'. Fossils are 'Tangible physical and objective evidence'. Do you know what objective means, and evidence means.

The concept that man and apes share a common ancestor is a conclusion based on two main pieces of evidence. The first piece was the fossil evidence, and it was confirmed via looking at the DNA.

Yes, they are claims, but there is actual physical evidence that can be examined.

What do you have for Jinn?
But do fossils provide you approx date? and does those fossil tellyou how big bang hapen? wat was there totaly before millions of years before?ofcourse not, its just assumption, no solid evidence

no it was;nt confirmed:) that theory was already rejected, many scientists are still not accepting it, only rejected scientists and people are believing in that/

We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.
Yes, fossils can be dated by a variety of different methods.. and yes, there is solid evidence.

We have evidence that Islam considers Satan is a kind of Jinn. We have also seen evidence that the concept of Satan is different in Christianity and in Judaism, so none of the three Abrahamic religions have the same concept of Satan.

The one thing that is in common between Satan in all three religions is the equal lack of evidence that Satan is anything more than an allegory.

As for Satan actually doing anything... you have a claim of evidence of Satan, yet you have not presented any other than more unsupported claims.

Do you know what the concept of 'evidence' is?
evidence is the one which I provide, but you reject, and evidence is also the 1 which you never provide, you never read what i give to you, my links show that satan is same in all 3 religions,
you could;nt show me waves and signals physicaly, you couldnt prove how ape become man,and how ape into existence, who made ape?al these questions you dnthave answers /
atleastI provided something, but nothing came out frm u so far

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Post #85

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:

No, those websites and my statements are 100% right, you are wrong here sir.
Because, you are thinking the that word (Jinn) is used in Judaism and christianity.
you are wrong, never inyour life you will find that, and you are also thinking that they are not made up off smokeless fire? read bible you will find it aswell
Bloody hell do I have to put in a disclaimer everytime I use the word djinn? I have stated a number of times now my understanding of djinn which is why I said I would accept anything saying satan is made of a smokeless fire. I have read the bible and don't remember anything referring to satan as being made of smokeless fire, so I'll need you to provide me a link for that claim as well. Your statements and the links you gave can not both be correct since they contradict one another.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (Hebrews 1:7)

Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: (Psalms 104:4)


Where as possesion of human body by other creature has been ovbserved throughout ages. and they call it with different names, in Arabic name, this is called as Jinns.
For your clafication, I willl provide you some more links to study, as you canlt get enough with the links.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/satan.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/a ... buttal.htm
So now according to you christian angels are djinn so then what equivalent creature are islamic angels in the christian pantheon? I get it now all you have to do is change the meanings for everything and it fits together perfectly. Djinn don't exist in the bible, no problem we will just say they are angels. Don't you see how this explanation doesn't work?
ofcourse jinns wont be there in bible, maybe u open arabic bibleu will find, but u have to learn arabic 1st

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Post #86

Post by Goat »

TrueReligion wrote:
evidence is the one which I provide, but you reject, and evidence is also the 1 which you never provide, you never read what i give to you, my links show that satan is same in all 3 religions,
you could;nt show me waves and signals physicaly, you couldnt prove how ape become man,and how ape into existence, who made ape?al these questions you dnthave answers /
atleastI provided something, but nothing came out frm u so far
What evidence did you provide? You just provided links to people that did definitions and more claims.

Where is the physical evidence? Claims are evidence of belief, not of reality.

DO you understand the difference between a claim and evidence for something actually existing?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #87

Post by Wyvern »

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.
You claim you have evidence that proves satan is a djinn, then provide it. Uncover this supposed proof and millions of folk will be swarming to their nearest mosque.
Find the dictionary, and find the corresponding or same meaning of arabic word Jinn in other religions, and thn find also wat jinn is made up off. all are related to each other
Djinn are made of smokeless fire, no such correspondence exists in other religions. I hope this wasn't your evidence, otherwise you need to rethink what constitutes it.

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Post #88

Post by TrueReligion »

goat wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
evidence is the one which I provide, but you reject, and evidence is also the 1 which you never provide, you never read what i give to you, my links show that satan is same in all 3 religions,
you could;nt show me waves and signals physicaly, you couldnt prove how ape become man,and how ape into existence, who made ape?al these questions you dnthave answers /
atleastI provided something, but nothing came out frm u so far
What evidence did you provide? You just provided links to people that did definitions and more claims.

Where is the physical evidence? Claims are evidence of belief, not of reality.

DO you understand the difference between a claim and evidence for something actually existing?
See. y we say unseen, do you know the meaning of unseen? which you can;t see and can't touch etc etc.
Now I can provide you people remarks and their experience of possesion, but are you sure u gona believe>

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Post #89

Post by Wyvern »

ofcourse jinns wont be there in bible, maybe u open arabic bibleu will find, but u have to learn arabic 1st
Ahh but they are, or didn't you read your own links? According to them djinn are christian angels

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Post #90

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.
You claim you have evidence that proves satan is a djinn, then provide it. Uncover this supposed proof and millions of folk will be swarming to their nearest mosque.
Find the dictionary, and find the corresponding or same meaning of arabic word Jinn in other religions, and thn find also wat jinn is made up off. all are related to each other
Djinn are made of smokeless fire, no such correspondence exists in other religions. I hope this wasn't your evidence, otherwise you need to rethink what constitutes it.
Is anything mention in other religions how angels and satan is madeup of??

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