Why is it the child's fault?

illuminatus · Post by **illuminatus** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:26 pm

I've heard this arguement so many times before. A woman wants to have an abortion and now the child is getting shanked because he/she does not get to live. Why is it the child's fault that he/she doesn't get to live?

Well after my years of experience in life I want to ask another question. Why is it the child's fault that he/she does get to live? What if that child never wanted to experience the world? What if that child didn't want to be raised in an abusive home and see as his/her world fell apart in front of them and they were helpless? What if that child didn't want to live in a war zone and suffer through the atrocities brought about by the war?

Piper Plexed · Post by **Piper Plexed** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:04 pm

I have often thought this too.

I would like to propose a hypothetical...

Boyfriend and I live together and get pregnant.
Scenario 1 Abortion is legal
–We rise to the challenge, we decide as a couple to get married and have the child. Happy little nuclear family.

–We have an abortion, most likely break up after that as we come to realize that there is no point in being together as obviously this is a fruitless coupling.

Scenario 2 Abortion is illegal
–We rise to the challenge, we decide as a couple to get married and have the child. Happy little nuclear family.

–We have the baby and put it up for adoption, 50/50 whether it is a decent adoptive family and the child has a decent life or the child is abused neglected etc. We most likely break up after that as we come to realize that there is no point in being together as obviously this is a fruitless coupling.

The way I see scenario 1 the child is loved and protected by either us or God . What is addressed is whether Boyfriend and I were able to meet Gods challenge or did we fail ourselves as well as our child.

The way I see scenario 2 Is the big maybe and if the child is placed in a bad situation, the child will suffer by our failure. In the end I guess the biological parents may feel that their conscience is clean as they Didn't Abort though have they really taken responsibility or have they looked out for No.1 and side stepped responsibility in the end. No matter what it is a life changeing event for the parents either they met the challenge or not.

illuminatus · Post by **illuminatus** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:22 pm

You forgot something in both of your scenarios. Not all pregnancies are planned. My girlfriend and I have been worried twice so far about her being pregnant. We are not ready to support a child. We cannot have it in our lives, and it would be horrible for a child. Both of us are in college and do not yet have stable jobs or a permament home. Yet both of us plan on spending our lives which each other and eventually want to have kids.

What then? Just because we have an abortion because we actually think ahead in life and realize that we cannot properly provide for the child and it would destroy our lives as students and our futures then we will break up? Because it is a fruitless relationship?

I do not see the logic in your... logic.

Infinitehonor · Post by **Infinitehonor** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:25 pm

You do not need to break up. It is good that you are planning on getting married. But, i guess you now see the point God was making in commanding that we don't have relations out-side of marriage. God gives us law for OUR benifit.

Piper Plexed · Post by **Piper Plexed** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:02 pm

illuminatus wrote:You forgot something in both of your scenarios. Not all pregnancies are planned. My girlfriend and I have been worried twice so far about her being pregnant. We are not ready to support a child. We cannot have it in our lives, and it would be horrible for a child. Both of us are in college and do not yet have stable jobs or a permanent home. Yet both of us plan on spending our lives which each other and eventually want to have kids.

What then? Just because we have an abortion because we actually think ahead in life and realize that we cannot properly provide for the child and it would destroy our lives as students and our futures then we will break up? Because it is a fruitless relationship?

I do not see the logic in your... logic.

Yours is another scenario and equally valid.

Well I wasn't going to admit this but I lived Scenario 1, actually we will be married 10 yrs this February. So I will add a bit more info since I have fessed up, we had been living together for 5 yrs. prior so in our case being 29 yrs old at the time we had to acknowledge that if we weren't to make the jump to marriage and family well we would have split up. Those were very scary days as we were struggling financially, I had been out of work for a year. It was a pivotal point in our lives and the decisions we made had to be ours alone. Such life choices are multi faceted and frankly government has no place in these choices. I have always been pro-choice though when faced with pregnancy I found out that I couldn't have an abortion. I realize, having gone through the process that I have very little tolerance for people who pass judgment or make blanket statements of what is morally right for all people. They just seem very short sighted to me.

singinbeauty · Post by **singinbeauty** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:28 pm

It may seem short sided because you have been to the edge and back. It is a very difficult situation to be in and I don't treat it lightly. But on the other hand just as I think it is wrong to kill any other human on this planet we should do the same for the humans who are growing in the woman.

–We have the baby and put it up for adoption, 50/50 whether it is a decent adoptive family and the child has a decent life or the child is abused neglected etc. We most likely break up after that as we come to realize that there is no point in being together as obviously this is a fruitless coupling.

There is something called "Open Adoption" that is available out there. The mother can choose the parents, interview them and spend time with them, see where they live, and even get pics sent to them (if the mother wishes) as the child grows.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:59 pm

As to the situation of a potentially difficult childhood and or life being a good reason for abortion, it is not. I have known many people with horrible, depressing, abusive lives (I am one of them, though a lot of people have it WAY worse), people who were thoroughly screwed up by their upbringing, but you know what.....NOT ONE OF US SERIOUSLY WISHED WE HAD NEVER BEEN BORN.

No matter how depressed I get, I can't help but think of the blessings I have had in life, the joy of nature, and the grace of God. I can perservere, and that makes life all the sweeter.

Trust me, a child will never regret that you didn't abort them.

illuminatus · Post by **illuminatus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:19 am

Uhhh... yeah. I could do without life. Nothing is not always worse than something you know. I moved out of my house at 17. Went to college, high school, and worked full time for half a school year. Now I am in college full time and half way done with my associates, once again working my way through college. Not getting any moral or emotional support from my family. I can't even recall any trurly good memories of my past because of how skewed my life has been. Compare it to ANY of my friends or colleagues and my life seems like pure hell.

Now, finally I turn 18 and I finally meet someone and for the first time in my life I trurly feel loved. Great. Now I'm really frigging confused. I'm not happy or depressed but I swear I cry or want to cry pretty much everyday because I do not understand why people would treat me with respect and with any shred of love at all. 18 years go by and only now do I experience this? While it may be not true anymore, those years before I moved out of my home made me truly wish I was not born. So much in fact that I began to contemplate suicide at the ripe age of 11. Only thing that prevented me from going through it was the notion of hope. Hope that something would change and things would get better. Unfortunately I broke one Christmas eve and did attempt suicide. So, please don't tell me that no one truly wishes they were not born.

Just because now I want to live further to experience life for what it was supposed to be doesn't mean I wanted to live those 18 years prior to.

Oh yeah, before you start with the Jesus/God bable, I was raised Russian Orthodox so I knew the religious dogma quite well. And in hindsight I do regret being born. Because in my state of confusion I have caused quite a bit of pain and suffering to those whom I love and care about. Something they should have never experienced. And in my state of despair I felt as if the very fabric which held me together was constantly being torn apart by those who claimed to love and care for me.

Anyway, I'll stop the sob fest and move on.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:54 pm

If you had never been born, you never would have been loved by the person you are dating. Doesn't that mean something special to you?

singinbeauty · Post by **singinbeauty** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:30 pm

Now, finally I turn 18 and I finally meet someone and for the first time in my life I trurly feel loved. Great. Now I'm really frigging confused. I'm not happy or depressed but I swear I cry or want to cry pretty much everyday because I do not understand why people would treat me with respect and with any shred of love at all. 18 years go by and only now do I experience this? While it may be not true anymore, those years before I moved out of my home made me truly wish I was not born. So much in fact that I began to contemplate suicide at the ripe age of 11. Only thing that prevented me from going through it was the notion of hope. Hope that something would change and things would get better. Unfortunately I broke one Christmas eve and did attempt suicide. So, please don't tell me that no one truly wishes they were not born.

What you just described above IS depression. I know, because I deal with it everyday. There are times when I wish that I didn't live this life and I even contemplated ending it myself if God didn't. But that notion of "hope" that you talked about is what keeps all of us "near-suicides" from actually completing the act.

Just know that if you EVER need to talk... I am here.