Does The Father Have Any Say?

[singinbeauty]

Alright, I am starting this in a new thread as it came up in another topic and seemed to srike a chord with some people. Here is the question:

Does the father of the child have any say when it comes to the mother wanting an abortion? The child in question is just as much a part of him as it is of the mother.

Here is another question that piggy backs on this question... (I have found no proof that this exists but with our world I wouldn't be surprised that it has happened):

If a couple were to ask someone else to carry a child to term (surragacy (sp?)) and the woman agreed but after the procedure was complete and circumstances changed for this woman would she have the right to back out and abort the child?

Just a few thoughts... what do you think?

[Piper Plexed]

Does the father of the child have any say when it comes to the mother wanting an abortion? The child in question is just as much a part of him as it is of the mother.

I will begin with, this response is not set in stone, here are some thoughts...

I see this as very different than laws against abortion in that unlike state interference in the family this to me is a family matter. Granted this is more likely to occur when unmarried people couple though I personally know of a married couple that faced this and the wife had to get a legal release from the husband to obtain the abortion .

OK so the way I feel about this is.... I tend to feel that there is a moral obligation to the man from the woman that carries his baby. If I were her I would tend to think that the moment I coupled with him I must have been aware of the potential outcome and out of respect for the intimacy that we shared I would be obliged to consider his feelings when it comes to the product of that intimacy. If I did not want the child, I would be inclined to carry it to term and allow custody to be granted to the biological father.

Now when it comes to laws to protect his rights, this is very tricky, though as it stands now, I am more on his side than hers.

If a couple were to ask someone else to carry a child to term (surrogacy (sp?)) and the woman agreed but after the procedure was complete and circumstances changed for this woman would she have the right to back out and abort the child?

I suspect this most likely is a legal contract which includes payment for services (Child Bearing) abortion is out of the question unless bringing to term puts the host Mothers life in Jeopardy. She knowingly and willingly entered into the contract so she would be in breach of contract.

[singinbeauty]

OK so the way I feel about this is.... I tend to feel that there is a moral obligation to the man from the woman that carries his baby. If I were her I would tend to think that the moment I coupled with him I must have been aware of the potential outcome and out of respect for the intimacy that we shared I would be obliged to consider his feelings when it comes to the product of that intimacy. If I did not want the child, I would be inclined to carry it to term and allow custody to be granted to the biological father.

But this defies many people's views. If the baby is nothing more than mere cells and is not a human child why should it matter to the father of the child what the mother does? It's her body right? Wrong. The reason that it matters is because the child is just as much part of the father as the mother.

And you bring up a good point about knowing your partners before you lay down with them because a baby is possible ALWAYS. No matter how much birth control is used.

[Piper Plexed]

But this defies many people's views. If the baby is nothing more than mere cells and is not a human child why should it matter to the father of the child what the mother does? It's her body right? Wrong. The reason that it matters is because the child is just as much part of the father as the mother.

For me it falls more into family custody, it is the fathers cells too, though the mother may see it only as cells the father may not. I think in this case a law may be appropriate in that the state may establish a fathers rights in determining the destiny of his potential child. Much of this goes against my grain, though when I try to look at it objectively I can't help but feel that the man has rights in this matter where I feel quite sure the state does not.

And you bring up a good point about knowing your partners before you lay down with them because a baby is possible ALWAYS. No matter how much birth control is used.

No matter how much birth control is used Oh yeah, I KNOW!

[Gaunt]

It's her body right? Wrong. The reason that it matters is because the child is just as much part of the father as the mother.

I disagree. The embryo does not rely on any part of the father's body for nourishment or growth beyond the initial act. The father's organs are not be requisitioned by the fetus as it develops, nor is he forced to stay with the unborn until it is delivered.

[singinbeauty]

I disagree. The embryo does not rely on any part of the father's body for nourishment or growth beyond the initial act. The father's organs are not be requisitioned by the fetus as it develops, nor is he forced to stay with the unborn until it is delivered.

But the embryo IS part of the father in the chromysones (sp?) and the genetic make-up. That is the point I was trying to make.

[Gaunt]

But the embryo IS part of the father in the chromysones (sp?) and the genetic make-up.

But the reason that women can choose to have an abortion is not because it is a part of her, but because it is using her body parts to sustain itself, with or without her choosing for it to happen.

[singinbeauty]

Ok Gaunt... say that you fall in love with a wonderful girl and you want to have a family with her. If she gets pregnant with your child you wouldn't have a problem with her slaughtering your child. You wouldn't have a problem with her killing something that was a part of you at all?

[Gaunt]

You wouldn't have a problem with her killing something that was a part of you at all?

Me personally? I would try to talk her out of it. It would be my goal to remove every possible consideration that would lead her to conclude that it was Necessary to have an abortion. It would be a strain on the relationship I think, and I would most definitely not encourage her to do it, but if circumstances were such that she felt it was necessary, I would likely support her in whatever way I could. It is not my body that would have to undergo the changes, not my body that would have to feed, shleter and nurture a seperate organism from myself, and not my body from which it would be expelled. Therefore, I do think think it is my decision, at the end, whether or not I am going to keep it.

Of course, I would hope to have discussed the idea of children before the actual pregnancy occurs, and if there could be no agreement on such an important topic, perhaps break off the relationship before it got as serious as to get to that point.

[Dilettante]

As a father, I don't see any good reasons to exclude fathers or men from giving their opinion on abortion. Personal circumstances do not necessarily invalidate someone's opinion. That's like saying that only doctors who have overcome cancer can be good oncologists. So yes, fathers can and should have their say. I personally regard abortion with horror, except in extreme cases. But if the couple is married, shouldn't it be a joint decision? After all, the father had something to do with it, I presume!