Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

[Donray]

The Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith

.

Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:
Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.

I thought that any Christina church needed to believe in the Trinity otherwise they are not Christian.

For debate are the Jehovah Witness Christian?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 80 by Donray]

Answer post #76, if you would be so kind.

[Donray]

Done: Need to get ready for Barcelona, Rhone river cruise, and three nights Paris again.

[onewithhim]

Done: Need to get ready for Barcelona, Rhone river cruise, and three nights Paris again.

You sure know how to get out of answering anything. You haven't answered anything YET.

[JehovahsWitness]

Done: Need to get ready for Barcelona, Rhone river cruise, and three nights Paris again.

You sure know how to get out of answering anything. You haven't answered anything YET.

... yes but you'll alway have Paris.

Seriously, you were right to ask here that a similar standard applied to the NWT be applied to other translations, many of which nobody can name the specific translators. The position of the NWT committee is by no means unique and highlights (as they stated) that their work be judged uniquely on its scholarly content. It smacks of double standard to imply this option is not open to the NWT translators while not condemning other translators that have taken a similar position.


JW

[Browner]

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh (Jesus) and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The translators (in Brooklyn) of the JW BIble
INSERTED the indefinite article "a" into John 1:1 to read:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God."
I say inserted because there is no "a" in the original Greek.

This verse says that believing "Jesus is God" is necessary for salvation:
John 8:
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.
Any "He" after "I am" you may have is NOT in the original Greek.
Ditto for 6 other similar verses in John!
The "He"s were added for readability. Abominable.

[ttruscott]

Nowhere does the Bible suggest that one needs to believe that Jesus is "God" in order to be a Christian.

Seems only reasonable that one believe in the treachings of Jesus though, to be a Christian.

When false Christs and prophets are in the mix, twisting His teachings to their ends, does it not behoove us to seek Him to find what He meant and not try to find the truth by our own understanding of the bible or someone else's understanding?

I don't understand your position. From what you are implying JWs are not Christians.

Can I ask you what defines a Christian.

The thief on the cross...didn't follow one rule but ended in paradise.

Christ defines a Christian by initiating the process of redemption with him/her. Since that is an interior and spiritual thing, I do not care so much for superficial, secular definitions. If my personal assessment is that the spirit leading the person or sect is not the same as the Spirit I worship as GOD, though the deception can be slight in their doctrine, then I have some surety about deciding. I usually hold my decision about people in abeyance, even for many years, knowing that many elect are in the outer sects and many wolves sit as sheep in the worship service. I mean, I can believe a Church is not being led by Christ without rejecting every individual as per the letters to the Churches 6 out of 7 failing, Rev 2 on. I usually accept those I come into contact with are probably elect and try to treat them accordingly like someone I will spend an eternity with.

In the Christian system, any demon can preach Chirst and teach His sayings.

[ttruscott]

It is the 99% of so-called Christians that believe in THREE GODS. Count them:
Father = God
Son = God
Holy Spirit = God
It is the 99% of "Christianity" that worships multiple Gods.

Study doesn't seem to help a bad premise, eh? Nor does it ever supercede the Holy Spirit.

You have it wrong again. Christians believe in 3 divine persons whose divine attributes form a perfect Unity so that there is ONE GOD formed by 3 divine persons. Ain't the attributes of divinity wonderful?!

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 85 by Browner]

The translators (in Brooklyn) of the JW BIble
INSERTED the indefinite article "a" into John 1:1 to read:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God."
I say inserted because there is no "a" in the original Greek.

This verse says that believing "Jesus is God" is necessary for salvation:
John 8:
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.
Any "He" after "I am" you may have is NOT in the original Greek.
Ditto for 6 other similar verses in John!
The "He"s were added for readability. Abominable.

........................
1. It's true that there is no indefinite article in NT Greek. So all translators have to add "a" or "an" wherever an indefinite count noun is indicated. For example, here are all the places in John's writings which are truly parallel to the grammatical construction of John 1:1c:

H,W 1. John 4:19 - ("a prophet") - all Bible translations
H,W 2. John 8:48 - ("a Samaritan") - all translations
H,W 3. John 18:37 (a) - ("a king") - all
[H,W 4. John 18:37 (b) - ("a king") - from the Received Text (TR) and the 1991 Byzantine text]

And here a number of others that are also considered by many Trinitarian scholars to have a construction parallel to John 1:1c:

H...... John 4:9 (a) - indefinite ("a Jew") - all translations
H,W... John 6:70 - indefinite ("a devil"/"a slanderer") - all
H,W... John 8:44 (a) - indefinite ("a mankiller/murderer") - all
H,W.... John 9:24 - indefinite ("a sinner") - all
H,W.... John 10:1 - indefinite ("a thief and a plunderer") - all
H,W.... John 10:33 - indefinite ("a man") - all
H,W.... John 18:35 - indefinite ("a Jew") - all

H: Also found in Harner's list of "Colwell Constructions"
W: Also found in Wallace's list of "Colwell Constructions"

The above is condensed from my blog study on "Examining the Trinity."

Notice that "a" is "added" in all translations I have examined.
..................................

John 8:24 in other translations:

KJV: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

NASB: Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

NRSV: I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.

NIV: I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

And many more, including:

TLB: That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am the Messiah, the Son of God, you will die in your sins.

And, NLV: That is why I said that you will die in your sins. If you do not believe that I am the Christ, you will die in your sins.

"I am" (ego eimi) is not a name or title for God. Most Bibles add a required predicate after "I am" in most instances of its use. See my "I AM" study on my "Examining the Trinity" blog.

Browner concluded: "The 'He's were added for readability. Abominable"

I guess, then, that there are many respected Trinitarian Bibles (including the KJV) which are "abominable."

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 86 by ttruscott]

I usually hold my decision about people in abeyance, even for many years, knowing that many elect are in the outer sects and many wolves sit as sheep in the worship service. I mean, I can believe a Church is not being led by Christ without rejecting every individual as per the letters to the Churches 6 out of 7 failing, Rev 2 on. I usually accept those I come into contact with are probably elect and try to treat them accordingly like someone I will spend an eternity with.

That's about where I stand as well.

Paul tells us not to judge before the time, and Jesus said to leave the tares and the wheat to be separated at the judgment.

Salvation does not come from "right" doctrinal knowledge any more than it comes from our own righteousness.

I suspect some will be saved we think are lost, and some we think are saved may not be.

[Elijah John]

It is the 99% of so-called Christians that believe in THREE GODS. Count them:
Father = God
Son = God
Holy Spirit = God
It is the 99% of "Christianity" that worships multiple Gods.

Study doesn't seem to help a bad premise, eh? Nor does it ever supercede the Holy Spirit.

You have it wrong again. Christians believe in 3 divine persons whose divine attributes form a perfect Unity so that there is ONE GOD formed by 3 divine persons. Ain't the attributes of divinity wonderful?!

Pagans have a saying, that "all gods are one God". How is that different than the Trinity except by number? How is Trinitarianism NOT a form of polytheism?