Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[Tcg]

Another week has passed with no milestones to report. Week #2 and there are still no events that qualify for this commitment, "to let the events coming up be my debate argument."

Perhaps next week.

There is no need to ask for a weekly status check. Even if things don't occur on a weekly basis does not mean we're not in the last days.

But, anyways, during the past week, in the weekly Fed balance sheet report, it ominously hit 6.66 trillion.

I didn't ask for a weekly status, but rather provided one. The status I've provided isn't related to vague claims of what may indicate the last days, but a specific claim by 2timothy316 as to what will indicate the last days:

So a recap to happen next.

1. Declare Peace and Security when there really isn't any but it will seem convincing.
2. A massive attack on world religions, in the way of their property and money. People will abandon their religions and no one will be able to stop it. (Rev. 16:12; 17:15-18; 18:7, 8, 21)
3. A tribulation the world has never seen. Everyone will be affected.
4. An attack on the last remaining religion which is the true religion. (Ezekiel 38:1, 2, 8, 18; 39:4, 11.)
5. Armageddon, the war between the governments of the Earth and Jehovah's Son Jesus. Which will stop the attack on God's people. (Matthew 24:15-22, Revleation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21)

These are the specific milestones 2timothy316 has committed to document on this thread with dates of their occurrence when they happen. I haven't checked all the references to validate if they indeed support what is claimed will happen. Until we pass item #1, I don't see much point in doing so.


Tcg

[Diagoras]

So biblically a particular generation is not simply when the oldest member of said group dies (70 or 80 years) but when the last contempory of said group dies.

It appears that you’re treating a ‘generation’ in a similar fashion to WW1 veterans, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... by_country

Are you therefore suggesting that until we have no-one who was alive in 1914 still alive now, we’re still technically in ‘one generation’ for the purposes of experiencing the ‘last days’?

My brief searching suggests that there’s still a few people alive now who were born before WW1, so perhaps we still have another decade or so left before your definition will require a bit more stretching to fit predictions.

I predict that such a ‘stretching’ will occur before any ‘end day’.

[Zzyzx]

.

So biblically a particular generation is not simply when the oldest member of said group dies (70 or 80 years) but when the last contempory of said group dies.

It appears that you’re treating a ‘generation’ in a similar fashion to WW1 veterans, for example.

A generation means whatever JW wants it to mean. That's how apologetics works -- use words with any concocted meaning -- A day can mean a thousand years according to 2 Peter 3:8

[Danmark]

So biblically a particular generation is not simply when the oldest member of said group dies (70 or 80 years) but when the last contempory of said group dies.

It appears that you’re treating a ‘generation’ in a similar fashion to WW1 veterans, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... by_country

Are you therefore suggesting that until we have no-one who was alive in 1914 still alive now, we’re still technically in ‘one generation’ for the purposes of experiencing the ‘last days’?

My brief searching suggests that there’s still a few people alive now who were born before WW1, so perhaps we still have another decade or so left before your definition will require a bit more stretching to fit predictions.

I predict that such a ‘stretching’ will occur before any ‘end day’.

For 2000 years believers have been stretching definitions of 'generation' and other NT terms beyond the breaking point. Jesus and 'last times' are 2000 years overdue. The NT is clear that the end times and the 2d coming would come within a generation of those 'standing there.' In other words, 2000 years ago. They have nothing biblical to support this absurd reading, except "we don't know the exact hour." The exact hour was of course unknown. But the claim was that that hour would take place at ANY hour, within the lifetime of those 'standing here today.'

This bastardization of the Lord's words is necessary to the true believer, because a simple, honest evaluation of those verses renders the prophesy WRONG. Rather than admit the obvious truth, the believer corrupts the Word and in so doing, renders all prophesy meaningless, since anything can be explained away, albeit with nonsensical arguments.

[Zzyzx]

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Where does the Bible define the term 'generation' and what is its length?

Bible definitions are usually acquired through an examination of usage. When there is a conflict between how a term is used in the bible and conventional use one has to read relevant scriptures and then use critical thinking skills. In this case biblical and conventional definition agree so a dictionary* is of use.

Genealogists (people who study such matters) indicate that the term 'generation' is 20 to 30 or possibly 35 years. https://isogg.org/wiki/Generation_length

Apologists can stretch a day out to 1000 years by supposedly applying critical thinking skills to their scriptures. 2 Peter 3:8

Thus, their words become meaningless

[Danmark]

.

Where does the Bible define the term 'generation' and what is its length?

Bible definitions are usually acquired through an examination of usage. When there is a conflict between how a term is used in the bible and conventional use one has to read relevant scriptures and then use critical thinking skills. In this case biblical and conventional definition agree so a dictionary* is of use.

Genealogists (people who study such matters) indicate that the term 'generation' is 20 to 30 or possibly 35 years. https://isogg.org/wiki/Generation_length

Apologists can stretch a day out to 1000 years by supposedly applying critical thinking skills to their scriptures. 2 Peter 3:8

Thus, their words become meaningless

Egg Zactly! 40 years is the top figure I've heard scholars and apologists use to apply to a 'generation.' The NT is clear on this; Jesus should have returned 2000 years ago. He did not. Therefore the Bible is a fraud in regard to its predictive power. The only alternative, as Z points out, is to stretch definitions and interpretations to the point they are meaningless.

[Thomas123]

I agree that making futuristic claims have their own inherent limits or are otherwise ridiculous.

Next June will be a dry month.

This has plausibility and statistical credibility.

This prediction will stretch for as long as I need it ,to make any point. (1000+ yrs)

Follow Yahwehs Laws and you will live in a land of milk and honey, is of a genre, study hard and you will get success. This promised prediction can feasibly stretch for millenia because of it's open remit..like ..." One day , Bulgaria will be amazingly prosperous'

Big Ben will collapse in my lifetime. That needs to happen soon.

If that is what the scripture says then its devotees have to accept its realities and we are not talking about a few slates or a window pane from up the street.

The Jesus figure has been cloaked in Messianic scripture to the extent that nothing didn't not happen..and nothing isnt not happening , or won't not happen,..as Danmark suggested,...probable nonsense.

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you therefore suggesting that until we have no-one who was alive in 1914 still alive now, we’re still technically in ‘one generation’ for the purposes of experiencing the ‘last days’?

No, I am saying we are still in the generation as long as there is a contemporary of those that saw that war ?

Definition of GENERATION

1a: a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor

b: a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

c: a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period


source https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Genealogists (people who study such matters) indicate that the term 'generation' is 20 to 30 or possibly 35 years. https://isogg.org/wiki/Generation_length

So*? Are they biblical scholars? Bible experts (people who study theology) have noted the biblical usage is closer to the dictionary definition as proposed by Merriam-Webster's (see above).

* your link seems to be refering to protocol of "genetic genealogists" that study biological cycles on a genetic level. Obviously Jesus was not discussing genetics with his audience.

If the question is what was the meaning of the words Jesus is recorded as saying 2000 years ago in a Jewish context in connection with the events surrounding his return, calling on a genetic scientist is like handing a fork to someone with their bowl of soup; it might help a little but you'll still end up missing most of what you came for.

Apologists can stretch a day out to 1000 years by supposedly applying critical thinking skills to their scriptures. 2 Peter 3:8

Possibly they can, but as I said, for Jehovah's Witnesses who believe the "generation" Jesus refered to in Matthew 24 is the one that was alive (and understood the significance) of the events of 1914.




JW

[Zzyzx]

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No, I am saying we are still in the generation as long as there is a contemporary of those that saw that war ?

I'm starting to catch on to how this apologetics thing works.

When people of the WWII 'generation' die off we can switch to saying that if an ovum or sperm existing in that era resulted in a live birth 40 years later, that person as being in 'the generation'. When that bunch dies off we can switch to counting an ovum or sperm that produced an individual who produced an ovum or sperm – and count a person 100 years later. This can go on indefinitely. What a plan.

We can be proud of showing readers how this works to 'interpret' Bible tales.

Oh the tangled webs we weave when we practice to believe tales from ancient folklore (apologies to Sir Walter Scott; incorrectly attributed to Shakespeare)
http://www.shakespeare-online.com/faq/misquotesfaq.html