It's a good question... People have been asking for years "why hasnt Jesus returned yet?".."it was suppose to happen 2000 years ago"....
But technically it says it is suppose to happen in the end times in Revelations...
However... I was thinking about the book of Act's, when it said Jesus would return in the same manner he was taken up to heaven... I just started pondering it, if it would ever happen before I die...
But the Book of Revelations end with
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.�
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
the end times actually play out, with Jesus never returning... Or does He?
The return of Christ?
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #31[Replying to post 30 by Elijah John]
The bible isnt incomprehensibe, I understand it and I am confident there are at least 8 millions others that would say the same. That said Jesus did say that readers would need "discernment", guidance from Gods holy spirit and most importantly, a humble heart searching for truth.
JW
The bible isnt incomprehensibe, I understand it and I am confident there are at least 8 millions others that would say the same. That said Jesus did say that readers would need "discernment", guidance from Gods holy spirit and most importantly, a humble heart searching for truth.
JW
* bible interpretation
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Tcg
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #32There are undoubtedly billions who would say the same. That of course isn't evidence that any of them, yourself included, are right.JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 30 by Elijah John]
The bible isnt incomprehensibe, I understand it and I am confident there are at least 8 millions [sic] others that would say the same.
JW
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #33Emphasis MINEElijah John wrote:
"Peter" said "the end of all things is at hand". "All things" are currently ongoing. "At hand" was many centuries ago. Why is it so hard to admit that Peter was wrong, (and most of the other NT writers were as well) on the matter of the of the 2nd coming of Christ?
I said Peter was referring to the end of the Jewish Temple system which happened approximately 5 years after the estimated time of writing. Would you like to address this point?
1 Peter 1.20
He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
♦ EXPLAINED: End of the Jewsh System of things
Does every reference in the bible to "Last days" or "judgement" refer to Christ's second coming?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 420#966420
1 Peter 4.7
But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.
♦ EXPLAINED: End of the Jewsh System of things
Does every reference in the bible to "Last days" or "judgement" refer to Christ's second coming?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 420#966420
JW
*The Return of ChristFor more on this topic please go to other posts related to...
LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *and ... "DELAYS "DEBUNKED,
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Clownboat
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #34It is religious promotional material.JehovahsWitness wrote:We (Jehovahs Witnesses) are currently (November 2019) studying the book of Revelation in our bible classes, its a fascinating book and one of my favorites not just because its so visual and dramatic but because we are seeing its prophecites being fulfilled befor our very eyes. Indeed it bolsters my faith as many of the features were fulfilled in the 20th century confirming its accuracy.Tart wrote:
But technically it says it is suppose to happen in the end times in Revelations...
An amazing, breathtakingly accurate book of prophecy.
JW
*The Return of Christ
NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses
It is meant to bolster your faith.
Reading the Bible, evangelizing on the streets, hours of praise and worship every week were also measures I took to bolster my faith (along with others).
If people's faith can be bolstered by reading the Qur'an, I don't see why the same thing wouldn't be expected with the Bible.
Revelations is obviously referring to soon though, but in order to maintain ones faith, soon can become thousands of years. Not suprising when the end goal is to hold on to a belief though. I personally held on to all sorts of beliefs I had previously rejected during the process of being set free from Christianity. This was due to the fact that my end goal was to try remain religious. (Actually to remain in a relationship with Jesus. We didn't like the word religion much).
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
Re: The return of Christ?
Post #35So there are no Jews left? I wonder how "all things" can be translated as "Jewish Temple system". The Romans destroyed a building in 70AD, not "all things."JehovahsWitness wrote:Emphasis MINEElijah John wrote:
"Peter" said "the end of all things is at hand". "All things" are currently ongoing. "At hand" was many centuries ago. Why is it so hard to admit that Peter was wrong, (and most of the other NT writers were as well) on the matter of the of the 2nd coming of Christ?
I said Peter was referring to the end of the Jewish Temple system which happened approximately 5 years after the estimated time of writing. Would you like to address this point?
If one's faith requires such play with words and meanings then it is surely time to bid it goodbye.
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Elijah John
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #36I didn't say, or mean to say that the Bible itself, or the Bible as a whole is incomprehensible, only those portions where apologists play with words to change plain meanings. And I mean many of the NT writers were plainly wrong at times. Such as when they indicated they expected Christ to return soon, by using commonly understood words and phrases such as "soon" "last hour", "at hand" "this (not that) generation", "some standing here" etc, etc.JehovahsWitness wrote: The bible isnt incomprehensibe, I understand it and I am confident there are at least 8 millions others that would say the same. That said Jesus did say that readers would need "discernment", guidance from Gods holy spirit and most importantly, a humble heart searching for truth.
So only God can know what he meant, it seems in the infallible word he gave to humans and expected humans to understand.
And if we disagree with you, we lack "humble hearts, and are not "searching for the truth" or we are lacking in inspired "discernment"?
So apparently you do not understand commonly understood words and terms such as "soon", "last hour", "at hand", "this (not that) generation", "some standing here", etc. etc.
Or are choosing to twist them so you don't have to admit that Jesus or the Bible was ever wrong.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #37[Replying to post 36 by Elijah John]
The "plain meaning off the words" are not necessarily the most accurate. (For more on this point see below.). Knowing how language works isnt "playing with words" its simply a feature of being a literate adult. Children often have a problem comprehending the different levels of language which is why we send them to school.
HERMENEUTICS (bible interpretation)
The "plain meaning off the words" are not necessarily the most accurate. (For more on this point see below.). Knowing how language works isnt "playing with words" its simply a feature of being a literate adult. Children often have a problem comprehending the different levels of language which is why we send them to school.
HERMENEUTICS (bible interpretation)
Why is the bible written in a way that is open to interpretation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 682#844682
Are there rules of hermeneutics (biblical interpretation)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 385#953385
Isn't the reading that settles on "the plain meaning off the words" by definition the most accurate?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 785#965785
Are Jehovah's Witnesses "biblical listeralists"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 428#868428
How can we know which biblical interpretation is correct?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 438#880438
* bible interpretation[/quote]
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Tcg
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #38This is an easy claim to make, most are. Supporting such a claim is of course harder. Were you to do so, you'd then need to provide evidence that this is true in the matter being discussed here. Absent both, the claim above carries no weight in reasoned debate.JehovahsWitness wrote:
The "plain meaning off the words" are not necessarily the most accurate.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
Re: The return of Christ?
Post #39JehovahsWitness wrote:
The "plain meaning off the words" are not necessarily the most accurate. (For more on this point see below.). Knowing how language works isnt "playing with words" its simply a feature of being a literate adult. Children often have a problem comprehending the different levels of language which is why we send them to school.
I think countless adults have problems with comprehension too. I see that the explanatory example you give, cautioning against a literal interpretation, is "running water". Apparently this makes some people think water has legs, but those blessed by God cleverly avoid this interpretation.
When God's chosen people read: "I am the way" they understand this as a metaphor, a fact completely lost on such as atheists who think Christ was saying he was a motorway.
When Christ says: "I'll be back before some of you have died," the foolish non-believer will take this as meaning: "I'll be back before some of you have died" but it means that in a few hours time I will do something really special. It is a coded message. As for borrowing of the term "Parousia", a visit of a potentate, to mean Christ's touch down on planet earth, the foolish suppose that Jesus will literally come out of the sky. The favoured cognoscenti have been privately informed Jesus went from Dover to Dunkirk in WW1 on a small boat, disguised as a British officer, and then went into hiding somewhere in France, where he remains to this day, arranging terrestrial matters for his role as Prime Minister.
Of course the foolish uninformed will think this a tad improbable - but what do they know of hermeneutics?
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Difflugia
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Re: The return of Christ?
Post #40I know what you mean. My young daughter occasionally finds it challenging to differentiate historical fiction and non-fiction. Of course, even she considers things like Olympian heralds announcing dead people coming back to life to be sure giveaways.JehovahsWitness wrote:Children often have a problem comprehending the different levels of language which is why we send them to school.
