The Most Evil God

[SallyF]

Is the biblical Jehovah the most EVIL god ever imagined …?

[Athetotheist]

Yes the God of the Bible has killed more and promises to kill more than any other deity in any other religious text in existence (to my knowledge.) If He is God, does He have the right to?

I am just very curious as to why all the charges of “murderer,� “disgusting,� etc… are flying around. I assume you all are atheists? From what moral authority do you assign these terms from?

The moral argument you employ here fails to draw any significant distinction between the deity you believe in and any other deity who claims the right to destroy en masse.

And I'm not an atheist.

[Diagoras]

Bible God is not evil, because he doesn’t do anything evil or wrong.

Amos 3:6

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

The Book of Amos describes God as planning the burning of seven cities. Of course, if everyone in those cities were worshipping other gods, then they’d deserve to die and God would be perfectly right and good to burn them to death. [/sarcasm]

I guess if he makes the rules about what’s good and what’s evil, then he can add a ‘self-absolvement’ clause to anything.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

He has told you, O man, what is good and what YHVH requires of you, but to do justice, to love kindness and walk humbly with your God?

Does that sound like an evil God to you?

You tripped over by cherry-picking a single bit that sounds lovely …

And conveniently ignoring the overwhelming number of evil actions by the mythological Jehovah/Yahweh/YHVH/Whatever.

We may be grateful that this evil ethnic god is NEVER shown to be anything other than human make-believe.

[SallyF]

And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Exodus 9:12

Well that was pretty EVIL …!

A sneaky, cheating trick by this evil god.

Followed by all those plagues and exterminations.

We may be grateful that due to the entire lack of historical evidence …

This tale looks very much like biblical propagandists just makin' stuff up … again.

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 10 by Athetotheist]

How so? The God of the Bible claims Himself exclusive. By definition there are no other equals to Him. But following your argument, other potential “gods� would have to follow God’s rules and be subject to his “veto� powers.

Please explain if I am misunderstanding.

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]

“If I can’t trust this God then whether he has the right to do something or not is totally irrelevant.�

What do you mean whether he has the right to do anything or not? You yourself in your post admitted to subjective morality. How can you accuse God of moral crimes?

“If Yahweh can do anything he wants just because he feels like it , then I cannot trust him, he might do something bad to me for no good reason. That’s not a God I could trust.�

So to you, God must be measured up to your standards. If He does not fit your criteria, than He is either not god or he shouldn’t be god. Correct?

“I also think that Biblical theist quickly lose sight of their own criteria for their God.�
Absolutely. Especially amongst contemporary Christians. It is like the Bible is irrelevant to them.

“That alone makes him an evil God right there. If he’ll hurt anyone for not believing in Hebrew folklore then he’s already an evil demon…�

Based on what? What makes Him evil? Is it the social costs we now see in our economy? Again, from what moral standard do you make these claims? From your own? Is God evil because He doesn't believe your folklore?

“Don’t you agree that attempting to apologize for a God who wasn’t able to make his own case clear is a pretty sad state of affairs?

Well, it would seem like that wouldn’t it? He said in the Prophets that He is removing Himself until His return. Until then, He is gone. You may find all kinds of things to say now and that is fine. I will just leave you with Jesus’ words.

He isn’t trying to save everyone.

Matthew 13:10-15
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

If He spoke plainly than everyone would understand. That isn’t His goal. God created the universe for only His sons.

[Zzyzx]

.

The God of the Bible claims Himself exclusive.

Correction: Humans writing religion promotional material CLAIM that their favorite 'God' (among thousands proposed, worshiped, loved, feared, fought over) said such things.

By definition there are no other equals to Him. But following your argument, other potential “gods� would have to follow God’s rules and be subject to his “veto� powers.

Worshipers of various 'gods' often claim that their favorite is supreme and/or above others (“My god is bigger than your god�). There is no assurance that such claims are anything more than products of human imagination or delusion.

Do you have verifiable evidence to show that your claim is more valid than any other?

Note: "Take my word for it (or his or this book)" is worthless in debate.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to post 10 by Athetotheist]

How so? The God of the Bible claims Himself exclusive. By definition there are no other equals to Him. But following your argument, other potential “gods� would have to follow God’s rules and be subject to his “veto� powers.

Please explain if I am misunderstanding.

You are indeed misunderstanding. Other gods have to follow only their own rules if they're the only gods who exist. The exclusivity of a particular god isn't proven by someone writing in a book that a particular god is exclusive.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 7 by 1213]

Bible God is not evil, because he doesn’t do anything evil or wrong.

He is and he does. I hold an allegedly perfect being like God to a higher standard than I hold mere human beings. An omnipotent being has every possible option at his disposal when it comes to solving any problem. When God chose the option of virtually destroying Egypt and, worse still, killing all the first born humans and livestock, I judge that as wrong and evil.

[Divine Insight]

What do you mean whether he has the right to do anything or not? You yourself in your post admitted to subjective morality. How can you accuse God of moral crimes?

I haven't accused any God of any crimes. That's your absurd perspective on things.

My position is that the obviously fictitious God character that was created but the immoral Hebrew culture clearly reflects their own immoral character. And this is why we can know that this mythology is indeed false.

There is no Biblical God to accuse of anything. That's your vantage point as a theists who has embrace this obviously immoral mythology.

“If Yahweh can do anything he wants just because he feels like it , then I cannot trust him, he might do something bad to me for no good reason. That’s not a God I could trust.�

So to you, God must be measured up to your standards. If He does not fit your criteria, than He is either not god or he shouldn’t be god. Correct?

That's absolutely correct. Any God that's supposedly righteous had better, not only live up to my standards, but he darn well better exceed them without bound. The God created by the Hebrew mythologists doesn't even come close to meeting that criteria.

Surely you wouldn't expect a God to not even be as decent as me?

Why would I believe in a God who isn't even as decent as myself?

“I also think that Biblical theist quickly lose sight of their own criteria for their God.�

Absolutely. Especially amongst contemporary Christians. It is like the Bible is irrelevant to them.

Excuse me? It's the Bible that demands that God is righteous and just.

“That alone makes him an evil God right there. If he’ll hurt anyone for not believing in Hebrew folklore then he’s already an evil demon…�

Based on what? What makes Him evil? Is it the social costs we now see in our economy? Again, from what moral standard do you make these claims? From your own? Is God evil because He doesn't believe your folklore?

Keep in mind that we're talking about the fictitious God of the Bible here. So we can't ignore the history that the Bible claims about him.

So never mind about what's going on today in 2020. The Biblical God's character was already destroyed in the stories of the Old Testament. The New Testament only destroyed his character further.

I don't blame any Gods for anything that's happening today. Let's just stick to the God of the Bible. The Bible was written over 2000 years ago. It has nothing to do with what's happening today.

“Don’t you agree that attempting to apologize for a God who wasn’t able to make his own case clear is a pretty sad state of affairs?

Well, it would seem like that wouldn’t it? He said in the Prophets that He is removing Himself until His return. Until then, He is gone. You may find all kinds of things to say now and that is fine. I will just leave you with Jesus’ words.

Jesus never wrote anything down. All you could possible recite are hearsay rumors about what he had supposedly said. Rumors that can't even be trusted. Moreover, let's not pretend that you aren't going cherry-pick verses that will support your views and ignore the verses that contradict your views.

He isn’t trying to save everyone.

Matthew 13:10-15
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

If He spoke plainly than everyone would understand. That isn’t His goal. God created the universe for only His sons.

Very nice cherry-picking.

Try this one out:

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

According to John if Jesus wasn't planning on saving the world then he wasn't serving his daddy's purpose.

Plus his brings us right back to what I said before. If Jesus was God and he was purposefully hiding the truth from people to keep them from knowing the truth, then he most certainly isn't as decent as me.

You're right back to having to ask me to believe in a God who isn't even as trustworthy as myself. Why in the world would I believe in a God who isn't even as decent as myself?

You have no choice but to demand that your God is an underhanded God who blinds people from truth and goes out of his way to make sure they don't learn about truth.

That's no good.

You should be able to see through this ancient mythology yourself. But instead you appear to be committed to defending it at all cost.

Why?

Why defend a mythology that has a God who hides the truth from people? Such a God is necessarily untrustworthy.

It's pretty sad when you have to argue that your God does untrustworthy things just to try to keep the theology afloat. I don't see how that helps to keep it afloat anyway.

Also, thinks of the HUGE contradiction you know have. Jesus was trying to hide the truth from people, yet he instructs his disciples to spread the good news to the people?

How can you not see the self-contradictory nature of this theology?

Also, if you are an evangelist, why in the world would you ever try to get anyone to understand God if God himself doesn't want people to understand him?

Face it, your arguments don't make any sense. They are extremely self-contradictory. The theology cannot be made to work.