SABBATH...

[Capbook]

Is the Lord's Sabbath in the OT still for God's people in the NT?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, I don't think there is any lawful reason for that, if sins have been forgiven already.

The "lawful reason" would be it is an obligation under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law says sacrifices MUST be offered. It doesn't say "sacrifice must be offered except if there is no sin". Sacrifices were a prescribed part of the law, without exception. Since this is a FACT, there are only three choices.

1. Keep the laws in place but stop obeying the ie stop doing what they say (and become a law breaker)
2. Change or modify or abolish SOME of the laws (because sins have already been forgiven) but Jesus said not one letter can be changed.
3. Abolish the law entirely

Please consider the above and if you think there is a 4th option, present it. If not which of the three do you think best reflect the Christian way.

[JehovahsWitness]

Duplicate (sorry)

[1213]

... Jesus did have to participate in the annual festivals, if he did not he would have been "breaking the law". Since according to the bible "sin is lawlessness" if he failed to attend he would have sinned.

Ok, I can accept that people should participate to that festival. I don't think it means people must make sin offerings.

[1213]

If sin is forgiven, person doesn't have sin. And I think person who is born anew, should not have sin

DOES BEING FORGIVEN FOR OUR SINS MEANS WE BECOME SINLESS?

I have understood, if sin is forgiven, it is also removed and we don't then have it anymore.

[1213]

Sorry, I don't think there is any lawful reason for that, if sins have been forgiven already.

The "lawful reason" would be it is an obligation under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law says sacrifices MUST be offered. It doesn't say "sacrifice must be offered except if there is no sin". Sacrifices were a prescribed part of the law, without exception...

Sorry, I don't think sins offerings are needed by the law, if there is no sin.

Please consider the above and if you think there is a 4th option, present it. If not which of the three do you think best reflect the Christian way.

4. The law is good, I don't see any reason why not live according to it. But, I think people should not obey it because they try to gain salvation. Only good reason is that person loves God and therefore wants to keep God's commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, I don't think sins offerings are needed by the law, if there is no sin.

Then show me that in the law.

4. The law is good ...

Nobody is denying this. The question however is was the Mosaic law permanent or was it temporary and designed to be replaced. Your statement that "the law is good" is not a 4th option to the question under consideration since the law can be good and temporary or good and permanent. Which applies to THE MOSAIC law?

[JehovahsWitness]

... I don't see any reason why not live according to it.

If you are referring to the MOSAIC law you are NOT living according to it. That is unless you are keeping the bloodbased sacrifices in the temple and obeying hundreds of other laws and mandates. Since you are not keeping the Mosaic law how is your statement relevant except to confirm that it doesn't apply to you and by extension, the Jews today.

... I think people should not obey it because they try to gain salvation.

The Mosaic law was never designed to lead people to salvation. Paul explained that such a thing was simply not possible, even for the most sincere Israelite since it was based on the blood of animals. Your statement implies that if a person is sincere in keeping the Mosaic law (which is impossible today since there is no temple to offer the animal sacrifices), then it would be a good thing to keep it. This however amounts to a rejection of God's means to salvation, namely faith in the Christ.

[JehovahsWitness]

... Only good reason is that person loves God

Paul said the law is the shadow and Christ is the reality. If you saw the shadow of someone that you loved would you kiss the shadow and not the real person. Would you kiss the shadow AND the person? If you did, how would the person feel sharing your love with the unreality of his shadow?

If one loves God one must obey him and keep the commandments he WANTS you to keep. For example the Levites had special requirements according to the law of Moses. If one was not a Levite, would God be pleased if you grabbed the tent and started trying to transport the ark because ... well God commanded it. Of course not, God did command it but he did not command it to YOU and it would be an act of rebellion (rather than a show of sincerity) to obey a command that is either not for you or not for your time (or both).

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

You refer to "the law" as some vague nebulous , homogenous entity, without any clear distinction between different ones. This is why you have thrown every objection but the kitchen sink at the simple notion that God provided a temporary arrangement for a select people to prepare the way for the most noble, elevated arrangement to replace it so that not only the Jews but people from all nations could gain salvation.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" HOSEA 4:6

Instead of the beauty of the path from the lower to the higher version as being a liberation, a total lack of understanding of the nature of the Mosaic law, will result in the same objections the Pharisees had, who believed that nothing could replace the law written on stone.

Like thr Pharisees, many today, try and put the new wine of Christian law into the old wineskin of the Mosaic law covenant and think they are displaying love for Gods law. Jesus warned however that such a combination would ultimately lead to spiritual failure

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to 1213 in post #185]

My question for you is, even if you do not feel inclined to accept the factually sound biblical information provided, do you have an objection that I have not addressed.



JW


THE MOSAIC LAW

What was the purpose of the Mosaic Law?
viewtopic.php?p=1148238#p1148238

Are the laws in the MOSAIC law covenant still VALID?
viewtopic.php?p=1153893#p1153893

Are all laws God gives permanent in nature?
viewtopic.php?p=1154579#p1154579

If the Mosaic law was fulfilled, does that mean it is no longer valid?
viewtopic.php?p=1153893#p1153893

Is there enough in the bible to conclude the Mosaic Law was to be temporary? [Onewithhim]
viewtopic.php?p=1154067#p1154067

Since forgiveness is possible through Jesus, does this mean the Mosaic law can be thereafter modified?
viewtopic.php?p=1155196#p1155196

If the Laws in the Mosaic Covenant are GOOD and from God, what harm is there in keeping some of them?
viewtopic.php?p=1155317#p1155317

COVENANTS

What is a COVENANT?
viewtopic.php?p=1154819#p1154819

What are the terms and conditions of the Mosaic law ?
viewtopic.php?p=1154643#p1154643

Why are the Mosaic Laws and the Laws Covenant INSEPERABLE ?
viewtopic.php?p=1154643#p1154643

Can the old covenant continue WITHOUT its laws?
viewtopic.php?p=1149039#p1149039

Did God BREAK his covenant with his people?
viewtopic.php?p=1154668#p1154668

Can the covenant end without also ending the laws that are part of that covenant?
viewtopic.php?p=1154669#p1154669

JESUS

Did the Festivals Jesus attended involve sin offerings?
viewtopic.php?p=1155191#p1155191

Could the Mosaic law be changed or modified if an Israelite became sinless?
viewtopic.php?p=1155079#p1155079

But if a Christian is without sin and didn't need any sin sacrifices, could he ignore the parts of the las those that revolved around sin offerings?
viewtopic.php?p=1155316#p1155316

Did Jesus fulfill or destroy the law?
viewtopic.php?p=1153894#p1153894

What did Jesus mean when he said "until heaven and earth pass away" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1154124#p1154124

What did Jesus mean by "heaven and earth will pass away"?
viewtopic.php?p=1149796#p1149796

Romans 10v4 What is meant by "Christ is end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"?
viewtopic.php?p=1154295#p1154295

Did Christ end the 'emnity" of the law (ie the EFFECT of the law) or did he end THE LAW itself?
viewtopic.php?p=1148360#p1148360

What did Jesus mean when he said not one letter would go unfulfilled until "all things come to pass"?
viewtopic.php?p=1149710#p1149710

THE NEW COVENANT

What is "The New Covenant"?
viewtopic.php?p=776505#p776505

What were the TERMS and conditions of "The New Covenant"?
viewtopic.php?p=776656#p776656

TWO COVENANTS Can the Mosaic Law and the New covenant co-exist ?
viewtopic.php?p=1149159#p1149159

Were the old covenant and the new covenant COMBINED ?
viewtopic.php?p=1154001#p1154001

Were the laws of the OLD or the NEW covenant to be written on people's hearts?
viewtopic.php?p=1153953#p1153953

REPLACING OLD FOR NEW

If forgiveness based on Jesus sacrifice means there is no need for parts of the law (animal sacrifice), what has been done to the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=1155196#p1155196

Does being forgiven sins mean we become "sinless"?
viewtopic.php?p=1155194#p1155194

Why is it important to recognize the end of the MOSAIC law?
viewtopic.php?p=1154463#p1154463

Does keeping the Mosaic law or parts thereof demonstrate love of God?
viewtopic.php?p=1155221#p1155221

Would a sinless perfect person STILL need to keep the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=1155316#p1155316

If the Mosaic law was GOOD what harm in continuing to keep it?
viewtopic.php?p=1155317#p1155317

If certain parts of the Mosaic law code are no longer necessary, why can we not just ignore those parts?
viewtopic.php?p=1155334#p1155334

Does the ending of the Mosaic law mean Christians are free to murder and commit adultery?
viewtopic.php?p=1154702#p1154702

[Capbook]

When does the Father feeds the fowls in the creation week?

God created the vegetation (food) long before he created the birds and the animals. When the birds were eventually created, the vegetation was all around them for food. Their natural instincts , programmes into them by God, pushed them to eat and drink.

Adam did not need to tell the birds around him to eat; all animals were already eating because of their natural instincts to do so (compare Isaiah 1:3)


FURTHER READIND See the remarkable efficiency of living things
Watch This Video https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/s ... -Designed/


RELATED POSTS

Does scripture testify that birds have natural instincts?
viewtopic.php?p=1155007#p1155007

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EARLY EARTH, THE GARDEN OF EDEN and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS

So, your god has no foreknowledge?
Does not know that the fowls were already eating (third day of creation) the vegetation many thousand years ago.
As your god does not know, in the sixth day of creation the true God informed Adam what foods for the fowls are.
What's the use of the true God informing Adam about the fowls food then?

Arguments above proves that the week of creation is a literal week, and a day is a literal day, as Jesus said of a twelve hours in a day (John 11:9) and the remaining as night. And the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord for His People. (Mark 2:27,28).

John 11:9
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
KJV

Mark 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
KJV