Is the bible the word of God

[daylight]

I found this debate on youtube, very nice and interesting. It is a debate itself, but the good thing is that we can even debate about the outcome or the topic. The debate is whether the Bible is the world of God or not. The debate is divided in the following order.

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it looks like too much, but they are in sequence and each link is only about 5 minutes. Hope to read your comments.[/url]

[Biker]

Biker

You seem to have taken personal offense from my opinions. I mean you no harm. I recognize that in your traditions I am condemned by God and you are one of the Chosen few and for that I congratulate you. In the interim, between now and the mystery that awaits at the end of my physical life here, there is much left upon my plate. ...and nothing of what I intend to do with my life has anything to do with you personally or upon your notion of what God expects from me.

peace

Now who is speculating?
I notice you always think someone is taking offense with you?
I am certainly not. It is called debate Flail.

Biker

[Zzyzx]

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Mr. Biker,

It appears as though you acknowledge that you come in second best in the challenge you presented – without acknowledging so openly. I accept your excuse (lack of time) as being an excuse that is available to anyone.

Would you do the things you mention without religious agendas? Note: proselytization IS an agenda.

Well that is very nice, I greatly appreciate what you and your lovely other half are doing. May you be an inspiration to others, especially other retired folks who wile away their time in meaningless endeavors of self indulgence.

No appreciation needed. We encourage others to undertake volunteer activities whether they are retired or not. I, personally, have been doing these things for most of a lifetime.

I needed no religious motivation to do what I consider the right thing to do. If I (we) want someone to have something we give it to them – without commercials attached and without attempting to make it appear as though we were influenced by gods or devils or imagination.

Notice we are Non-Theists. Our motivation is not provided by any religion or by any desire to acheive personal benefits in this life or in a supposed "afterlife".

Notice I am a Christian Theist and my actions are the result of the example of Jesus Christ and His Spirit at work in me not as a result of anything I could or would do or with an outlook towards any brownie points.

The Christian Bible says that you can't work your way to heaven anyway, it is futile.

Some “interpretations” of the bible say that “works” are not a factor in “going to heaven”. Other “interpretations” disagree. Christians are NOT united on the “faith vs. works” issue.

You are entitled to ONE opinion. You are NOT entitled to your own facts. You do NOT speak for Christianity – only for yourself and possibly for your sect.

You can't get good enough on your efforts only one was good, Jesus Christ.
But the ethic and logic and influence for doing good for others is of Christian in origin

This is pure speculation – unsupported opinion – UNLESS you can document that “the ethic and logic and influence for doing good for others is of Christian in origin”. I look forward to your documentation or your acknowledgement that you overstated the case and cannot support what you claimed.

so it has influenced you without your even realizing, you can't escape the far reaching effects of Christianity in our culture no matter how much you deny His existence you are influenced by Him and His no matter what you believe.

You are entitled to ONE opinion. I strongly disagree. I, personally, opine that there is more negative influence from religion than positive.

Its bigger than you its bigger than this country and its bigger than this planet.

Imagination is evidently very large in some people. Thank you for pointing that out.

Now, without ringing my bell but as result of atheist implication falsely against Christians in general.

It seems as though you issued a challenge. Did you not?

I spend much of my free time helping Christian orphanages in Mexico, by time and treasure. I and my lovely wife spent all day Saturday in Mexico crossing goods to the orphanage and helping set up a Christian School in the facility.
Next weekend we cross a Medical Clinic to the orphanage, and help set it up.
I spend time and treasure helping prisoners in the US in the deplorable warehousing of humanity system that has failed miserably.

Commendable.

Setting up a Christian school appears to be at least somewhat motivated by proselytization. Is that one of the objectives of setting up the school?

I spend time and treasure helping homeless in my community at times having them stay in my house, bathing them feeding them with physical food and spiritual.

Commendable.

Is proselytization included as an objective, motive or agenda?

I minister the Gospel in Mexico counseling, praying, teaching those less fortunate than I .

This is clearly proselytization.

If there were not religious gains to be made or religious objectives to further, would you and your sect be as involved in helping poor people – with NO gain to religion?

My local ekklesia has numerous outreaches of varying kind to the poor, orphans, sick, I spend time and treasure in these varying outreaches.

Commendable. Is proselytization involved?

That is why I don't spend much time on these boards.
Too busy.

It is probably more effective for you to contribute elsewhere than to promote religion with your posts here.

This is in addition to secular endeavors.
I find many professing Christians are what I term practical atheists.

By what criteria do you judge them to be “practical atheists”? Are they not “Real Christians”?

They only believe but no corresponding action. But it doesn't make Christianity wrong or mean that all Christians are that way.

Agreed. What individuals do does not mean that their group does as they do. Likewise, when other Christians do good things, that is no indication that their group (or sect or denomination) does as they do.

Christianity by far is the most powerful organism for doing and being good on the face of the earth. Because of Jesus Christ and His work in us.

This is OPINION and SPECULATION unless you can produce documentation to verify your claim. I expect your next post to document or withdraw the claim.

I notice the food bank you work at is Christian, if not for Christianity you wouldn't be able to give of your time in helping the poor.

Correction: I choose to cooperate with people regardless of their religious orientation. In addition to working with the Food Bank, as indicated, we work with other organizations – secular organizations such as the Forest Service – doing public service projects.

It is not accurate to attribute our efforts to any one organization or to any religion.

In the past I was affiliated with a Non-Religious food bank. I am not intolerant in either direction.

Have you ever wondered why there are no atheist food banks for the poor?

Have you ever researched to learn whether there are any Non-Theist, secular organizations that provide food to the poor? Are you making another assumption – perhaps based on your personal limited experience?

Have you ever wondered why in practically every large community there is a Luthern Hospital here a Methodist Hospital there a Baptist Hospital there a Catholic Hospital thus and so on but no atheist hospital in sight.

My health care is provided by the VA hospital which adjoins a university hospital. Both are secular, Non-Theist, organizations. There are quite a few “for profit” hospitals in the US that are NOT affiliated with religious groups.

All of this type of activity is going on right now in 238 countries of the world by more than 2 Billion Christians, quickly approaching 3 Billion.

In which of the “developed” countries is Christianity increasing? Is Christianity growing primarily in “under-developed” nations? What is the rate of increase, if any, worldwide? Kindly provide documentation.

Universities, mostly started by Christians.

I attended state universities and later taught at state universities. Are you attempting to claim that they are of religious origin?

Anti- slavery, started by Christians.

Are you attempting to attribute opposition to slavery to Christian individuals or to organized church efforts of the entirety of Christianity?

If you choose to credit Christianity with the good actions of individuals, to be consistent you must also credit Christianity with the BAD actions of individuals.

Kindly identify whether it is the church or individuals you are crediting with origin of anti-slavery and document the claim.

And I proselytize and don't apologize for it either.

Your efforts are appreciated – at least by me because I recognize that you do more against religion that I can do alone.