The abortion issue

[jgh7]

This is my first time adding a poll, so hopefully it works

I notice that the issue of gay marriage is a hot topic on these forums, but people tend to skirt around abortion... Gee, I wonder why? Here's a poll, please choose one of the options even if you feel that you're "special" to the point of where none of these options describes you. Please keep in mind, This has to do only with pregnancies that are not the result of rape, are not a danger to the mother's life, and with fetuses that will not have grossly severe deformities or disabilities. I have opinions about each of these special circumstances, but I would like this topic to be about the overwhelming majority of pregnancies which don't have these problems.

Obviously you can voice your stance as well, and feel free to talk about your opinions of how religion relates to all of this... or how it shouldn't. Here's mine:

For me, my strong views about abortion coincide highly with my religious views, but I developed them before I became religious. I view life as sacred from the moment of conception. I don't care if the zef (zygote/embryo/fetus) can think, I don't care how he looks, I don't care if the mother-to-be is a teenager or not, and I don't care about the impact on society. All I care about is the zef's life, and how I define life is not based off of cognitive abilities, development of vital organs, or ability to survive outside the womb. Life is about having a future on this earth. Many people say it's no big deal because there are so many early miscarriages that we don't even realize happen, but that is an awful reason to justify the purposeful destruction of life.

The main pro-choice argument is that the mother has a right to choose since it's her body. I strongly disagree. In the cases of voluntary sex, people know the risks; even when they use protection they know there's still a risk. Even if they don't know the risks, that still does not justify killing the zef because of their ignorance. Even in the worst case scenario, where the mother is a teenager and dirt poor, I strongly believe that abortion is wrong. Life is sacred to the point of where both parents ought to be willing to sacrifice their monetary well-being as well as their personal lives/time/aspirations for the sake of letting their child live.

My faith strengthens my stance, and I'm not ashamed to admit that the only way I could feel so strongly is through my faith. After all, with a non-theistic view it's pretty easy to view life as insignificant if it's a tiny spec that doesn't think and doesn't look anything like a baby. I understand many will be offended by this, but I've seen that this is the case for many non-theists.

The final argument that usually arises is: "Isn't using protection the same as abortion, since you're preventing sperm from entering the egg?" I believe we have the right to choose when we want to create life, but we don't have the right to choose to destroy that life once it has been created. I may not know the precise time down to the second, but somewhere during the moment of conception, life is created. A sperm will not grow into a baby, and neither will an egg; only a fertilized egg. All that is left after conception is less than a year of growing until the life is born. Using protection is no more abortion than is choosing not to have sex for a certain night. Both cases mean that sperm that could have fertilized an egg was prevented from doing so. But destroying a fertilized egg is abortion, because it is killing off a human life that is growing.

These are my views. I know there are many points where people can disagree, but abortion is one thing where I have a very strong stance on, since I believe it is killing. When people are lax on their stances and say things like, "It's only for mothers to decide," it usually means that they don't view the zef as a life.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Anti-Choicers have the OPINION that abortion is wrong. This is their OPINION and should not be forcibly subjected into others lives.

Our entire justice system is based on opinions and viewpoints that are entirely subjective. The very idea of law is nothing but taking a subjective view, and forcing others to conform to that view through force.

As an aside, I find it interesting that there is this huge correlation between religious beliefs and what side you take on the abortion issue. Every non-theist who voted in this poll except one is pro-choice, and every theist, without exception, is pro-life. I have to wonder why that is.

[Nilloc James]

i am pro choice although beleive we should work towards a soceity where abortions are not necisary with better sex ed, better foster care programs, more assistance for poor families and the such.

And if I need remind you I am non-theist.

[catalyst]

jgh7 wrote:

Please keep in mind, This has to do only with pregnancies that are not the result of rape, are not a danger to the mother's life, and with fetuses that will not have grossly severe deformities or disabilities. I have opinions about each of these special circumstances, but I would like this topic to be about the overwhelming majority of pregnancies which don't have these problems.

I cannot help but notice you popped in your own disclaimer regarding certain **special** circumstances. IS it ok for the woman to CHOOSE in situations like those jgh7? If so why? Isn't it still a LIFE at conception regardless of what the foetus "becomes" as per your rhetoric?

If you have your own "reasoned" excuses and are OK with it in SOME circumstances, then you too are on the PRO-CHOICE/PRO-LIFE boat too, from my view of what you have written anyway.

As a woman myself, I would not make a CHOICE to terminate a pregnancy, for social reasons, however it is MY CHOICE for me personally, not to. That means I am pro-life. However, it is therefore not MY PLACE to place restrictions on OTHER WOMENS personal choices as to what to do with their own bodies. I make MY choice for me, and as such they can make their choice for themselves... hence pro-choice...capiche?

When or if you personally are capable of being impregnated, then YOU can make any choice you want....for YOU.

[userr123]

I am a christian and I stand against abortion. A person becomes a person at conception. There was a documentary made a while ago called The Silent Scream. It was an ultra sound recording of an abortion. There were more than clear signs that they unborn baby was put through immense pain and suffering while it endured the abortion. It is scientifically proven that abortion is killing a human being and not a lifeless embryo.

A person is a person no matter how small.

[FinalEnigma]

I am a christian and I stand against abortion. A person becomes a person at conception. There was a documentary made a while ago called The Silent Scream. It was an ultra sound recording of an abortion. There were more than clear signs that they unborn baby was put through immense pain and suffering while it endured the abortion. It is scientifically proven that abortion is killing a human being and not a lifeless embryo.

A person is a person no matter how small.

right...What if there is a high chance of the mother dying in childbirth? or what if the mother was raped and wants to get a 1st trimester abortion? Do you condemn that as well?

And what about the...what was it 12 year old child who was raped and abused by her uncle, impregnated, and then got an abortion because there was a very high chance that both she and the fetus would die if she didn't?

[userr123]

The thing is, most of the abortions that take place are not because of rape, but of poor teen decision making. Although rape and abuse does occur, I think that is just more evidence of how corrupt society has gotten and how far it has distanced itself from the fundamentals of christianity.

[FinalEnigma]

The thing is, most of the abortions that take place are not because of rape, but of poor teen decision making. Although rape and abuse does occur, I think that is just more evidence of how corrupt society has gotten and how far it has distanced itself from the fundamentals of christianity.

Without figures, I cannot say whether that is true or not, but I won't disagree - it wouldn't surprise me. However, I would like to know your answer to my question.

[catalyst]

The thing is, most of the abortions that take place are not because of rape, but of poor teen decision making. Although rape and abuse does occur, I think that is just more evidence of how corrupt society has gotten and how far it has distanced itself from the fundamentals of christianity.

Without figures, I cannot say whether that is true or not, but I won't disagree - it wouldn't surprise me. However, I would like to know your answer to my question.

Hi FE,

Ironically, the stats provided on User123's OWN souce on ANOTHER abortion thread, actually refutes User's assumption. It shows that 20% of ALL terminations are by teens. Which hardly makes MOST because of "but of poor teen decision making".

Perhaps people should read their own links in their entirety, prior to posting them.

[FinalEnigma]

The thing is, most of the abortions that take place are not because of rape, but of poor teen decision making. Although rape and abuse does occur, I think that is just more evidence of how corrupt society has gotten and how far it has distanced itself from the fundamentals of christianity.

Without figures, I cannot say whether that is true or not, but I won't disagree - it wouldn't surprise me. However, I would like to know your answer to my question.

Hi FE,

Ironically, the stats provided on User123's OWN souce on ANOTHER abortion thread, actually refutes User's assumption. It shows that 20% of ALL terminations are by teens. Which hardly makes MOST because of "but of poor teen decision making".

Perhaps people should read their own links in their entirety, prior to posting them.

Thank you, that is helpful to know.

[Beto]

I am a christian and I stand against abortion.

I am an atheist and I also "stand against abortion". It is not a good thing. That being said, I also stand for a woman's right to decide whether or not she wants to have one.

A person becomes a person at conception.

And this doesn't strike you as just an opinion? Kindly demonstrate OBJECTIVELY why an ovum with a sperm inside is more of a person than the same ovum with the same sperm still trying to get in.

There was a documentary made a while ago called The Silent Scream. It was an ultra sound recording of an abortion. There were more than clear signs that they unborn baby was put through immense pain and suffering while it endured the abortion.

You should be aware that there are rebuttals to that. However, it's completely irrelevant here, since you choose "conception" to define the line where a "person" begins. I'm not seeing an ovum with a sperm inside as being much aware of anything. Is it a "baby"?

It is scientifically proven that abortion is killing a human being and not a lifeless embryo.

Being "lifeless" is never the issue. Being a "human" is. You choose not to consider the notion of "potential human", but I do. To me, a two or four cell conglomerate does not constitute a "human" or a "person". It's half alive, and a potential human, but not "human". You're probably thinking of a much more advanced state, and arbitrarily deciding "a human starts now"... but that is not at "conception".

A person is a person no matter how small.

So again, the objective criteria by which you decide that is...?