New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Scotracer
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New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
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Post #2

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Proves nothing. Homosexuality has been documented in the Bible from the fall of mankind. You using this to attack Christians is sophomoric. No one evolves to be gay. This is well known. People aren't born gay. Simply false.

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Post #3

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xcept wrote:Proves nothing.
Now I haven't heard that before.
xcept wrote:Homosexuality has been documented in the Bible from the fall of mankind. You using this to attack Christians is sophomoric.
I'm not using this to "attack" anyone. I am using it to show that criminalising or demonising homosexuality is a reprehensible act given that it is being shown to be natural.
xcept wrote: No one evolves to be gay. This is well known. People aren't born gay. Simply false.
I'd love you to demonstrate this given that the evidence is against your position in this thread...
Last edited by Scotracer on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #4

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A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.

Read the above very carefully.... says "IF there is a gene responsible" not that there is one.

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Post #5

Post by Scotracer »

xcept wrote:A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.

Read the above very carefully.... says "IF there is a gene responsible" not that there is one.
Yes, I can read TYVM...

I never said it showed there was a gay gene - perhaps you should read carefully.
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Post #6

Post by Grumpy »

xcept

Homosexuality is found throughout nature, especially in the apes where it aids in bonding and establishing hierarchal relationships in the troop. Wolves practice homosexuality within the pack, it is thought to relieve sexual tension because only the alpha pair is allowed to breed. Birds sometimes form homosexual pairs, it is well documented among Penguins.

But I find it telling that a few years ago when the heads of the Jewish, Orthodox and Islamic religions in Jerusalem met, the only thing they agreed on was their condemnation of homosexuals. Nothing else.

Grumpy 8-)

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Post #7

Post by JoeyKnothead »

For me it doesn't so much matter whether homosexuality is genetic, or a product of "the fall of man". What matters most to me is these are my fellow human beings and are worthy of respect and love on that basis alone. How they seek to live their lives, barring criminality, is really none of my business.

That said, there's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence (outside the referenced papers) to suggest homosexuality is genetic, where large families tend to have at least one homosexual member. Whether this is the product of "just genes" or the product of some dude eating an apple, the fact remains the more children a couple have, the higher the likelihood there will be a homosexual in the bunch.

Regarding the biblical take, it also says placing a striped stick in front of an animal can affect the color or pattern of the offspring, so what it has to say about how homosexuality comes about really can't be trusted.

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Post #8

Post by xcept »

Scotracer wrote:
xcept wrote:Proves nothing.
Now I haven't heard that before.
xcept wrote:Homosexuality has been documented in the Bible from the fall of mankind. You using this to attack Christians is sophomoric.
I'm not using this to "attack" anyone. I am using it to show that criminalising or demonising homosexuality is a reprehensible act given that it is being shown to be natural.
xcept wrote: No one evolves to be gay. This is well known. People aren't born gay. Simply false.
I'd love you to demonstrate this given that the evidence is against your position in this thread...
you can't prove there is a gay gene so this stops your entire debate dead in its tracks. Tjhere is nothing more to debate here.

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Post #9

Post by Scotracer »

xcept wrote:
Scotracer wrote:
xcept wrote:Proves nothing.
Now I haven't heard that before.
xcept wrote:Homosexuality has been documented in the Bible from the fall of mankind. You using this to attack Christians is sophomoric.
I'm not using this to "attack" anyone. I am using it to show that criminalising or demonising homosexuality is a reprehensible act given that it is being shown to be natural.
xcept wrote: No one evolves to be gay. This is well known. People aren't born gay. Simply false.
I'd love you to demonstrate this given that the evidence is against your position in this thread...
you can't prove there is a gay gene so this stops your entire debate dead in its tracks. Tjhere is nothing more to debate here.
How about actually debating the evidence presented? The first paper shows that it is advantageous in terms of fertility for there to be homosexual males in a family. That is an explanation as to why homosexuality still exists in society and refutes the argument from those opposing it that "if homosexuality wasn't a choice it would have been selected out of a population".

If homosexuality ain't a choice, what else causes it? The 2nd paper points towards a gay gene.

Far from over.
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Post #10

Post by nygreenguy »

xcept wrote:
you can't prove there is a gay gene so this stops your entire debate dead in its tracks. Tjhere is nothing more to debate here.
We also cant really pick out a gene for "tallness", yet I somehow doubt you would debate the genetic nature of height.

When will the willful ignorance stop?

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