New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Scotracer
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New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
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Post #21

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And there are far, far, far, far, far, far, far more heterosexual pedophiles and rapists.

Because, you know, there are about 10x as many straight people in the world.

And I'm fairly sure that even if you break it down by percentage of the straight vs gay population you still end up with a greater percentage of straight sex offenders than gay. I don't have a source for that, but it sounds right to me, and I do read a fair bit on the subject.

xcept: It's pretty sad that love between two individuals, love that doesn't affect you in even the tiniest way, upsets you so much. Did you know that almost everyone has pre-marital sex too? And that lots of people take the lord's name in vain? Is there a single second of the day when you aren't worried about things that don't affect you at all?

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Post #22

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 19:
xcept wrote: hey thanks! just to clarify, I needed the word "some" in front of the word gay... as in some gays are .... not all gays.
Fair 'nuff.
xcept wrote: However if you know anything about sexual perversions and physical lusts, the same with any other addiction, you will need more and more twisted things to become satisfied.
Who's to say homosexuals are "twisted"? I don't try to conflate homosexuality with other illegal acts, and that's why I was so repulsed by your response. Whether one needs more and more "twisting" is relative to one's position. As it stands, I see no harm in how folks get their jollies, as long as no one is hurt.

On that note, you previously stated:
xcept wrote: So by your definition, none of this should be punished and they should all have extra rights.
I don't advocate for extra rights, but for equal rights. I consider this "extra" as an attempt to claim homosexuals currently enjoy equal rights, which is clearly not the case.
xcept wrote: The body and mind build tolerances and become numbed and therefore the addict has to push the envelope further each time.
Funny, I see the same sort of thing from some religious folks. Someone declares their favored god doesn't like homosexuals, and before you know it folks are saying to allow homosexuals equal rights is to allow paedophilia or some other gross distortion of the issue.

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Post #23

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xcept wrote:People aren't born gay. Simply false.
How do you know that no one is born gay? How could you possibly know this? From where do you get your information?
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Post #24

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xcept wrote: If gays had a gene, so would pedophiles, rapists, sodomists, sexual predators. And actually within the gay community, all of these things exist.
As they do in the heterosexual community. It is an incorrect and bigoted stereotype to say that such characteristics exist in a greater degree in the gay community.
xcept wrote: [Some] Gays are sexual predators, [Some] gays are sodomists, [Some] gays are rapists, and pedophiles. So by your definition, none of this should be punished and they should all have extra rights.
Some heterosexuals are sexual predators, some heterosexuals are sodomists, some heterosexuals are rapists and pedophiles.

Whether perpetrated by gays or straights, society should be properly protected against sexual criminals. Legally, it matters not whether their predilections are genetic or otherwise.
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Post #25

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joeyknuccione wrote:From Post 19:
xcept wrote: hey thanks! just to clarify, I needed the word "some" in front of the word gay... as in some gays are .... not all gays.
Fair 'nuff.
xcept wrote: However if you know anything about sexual perversions and physical lusts, the same with any other addiction, you will need more and more twisted things to become satisfied.
Who's to say homosexuals are "twisted"? I don't try to conflate homosexuality with other illegal acts, and that's why I was so repulsed by your response. Whether one needs more and more "twisting" is relative to one's position. As it stands, I see no harm in how folks get their jollies, as long as no one is hurt.

On that note, you previously stated:
xcept wrote: So by your definition, none of this should be punished and they should all have extra rights.
I don't advocate for extra rights, but for equal rights. I consider this "extra" as an attempt to claim homosexuals currently enjoy equal rights, which is clearly not the case.
xcept wrote: The body and mind build tolerances and become numbed and therefore the addict has to push the envelope further each time.
Funny, I see the same sort of thing from some religious folks. Someone declares their favored god doesn't like homosexuals, and before you know it folks are saying to allow homosexuals equal rights is to allow paedophilia or some other gross distortion of the issue.
the problem with this is a person who has chosen to follow the gay lifestyle already has inalieable rights. You are saying they should have additional rights. Suppose to take a black female lesbian. She already has rights as a woma, and rights as a minority and you would be giving additional rights as a lesbian. What additional rights to give a heterosexual to balance the law out?

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Post #26

Post by Scotracer »

xcept wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:From Post 19:
xcept wrote: hey thanks! just to clarify, I needed the word "some" in front of the word gay... as in some gays are .... not all gays.
Fair 'nuff.
xcept wrote: However if you know anything about sexual perversions and physical lusts, the same with any other addiction, you will need more and more twisted things to become satisfied.
Who's to say homosexuals are "twisted"? I don't try to conflate homosexuality with other illegal acts, and that's why I was so repulsed by your response. Whether one needs more and more "twisting" is relative to one's position. As it stands, I see no harm in how folks get their jollies, as long as no one is hurt.

On that note, you previously stated:
xcept wrote: So by your definition, none of this should be punished and they should all have extra rights.
I don't advocate for extra rights, but for equal rights. I consider this "extra" as an attempt to claim homosexuals currently enjoy equal rights, which is clearly not the case.
xcept wrote: The body and mind build tolerances and become numbed and therefore the addict has to push the envelope further each time.
Funny, I see the same sort of thing from some religious folks. Someone declares their favored god doesn't like homosexuals, and before you know it folks are saying to allow homosexuals equal rights is to allow paedophilia or some other gross distortion of the issue.
the problem with this is a person who has chosen to follow the gay lifestyle already has inalieable rights. You are saying they should have additional rights. Suppose to take a black female lesbian. She already has rights as a woma, and rights as a minority and you would be giving additional rights as a lesbian. What additional rights to give a heterosexual to balance the law out?
What additional rights does this hypothetical person have? :confused2:
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Post #27

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xcept wrote: the problem with this is a person who has chosen to follow the gay lifestyle already has inalieable rights. You are saying they should have additional rights. Suppose to take a black female lesbian. She already has rights as a woma, and rights as a minority and you would be giving additional rights as a lesbian. What additional rights to give a heterosexual to balance the law out?
You are right, they have inalienable rights and they are asking for rights beyond those inalienable rights.

As it turns out, everyone else in america already has those additional rights. So while they are going above the status quo, the status quo is below where it should be.

Or are you saying that marriage is not a right?

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Post #28

Post by T-mash »

xcept wrote:He's saying homosexuals cannot reproduce because two dudes or two chicks cannot have a child together. Its a dead argument.
No kidding.
xcept wrote:If gays had a gene, so would pediphiles, rapists, sodomists, sexual predators. And actually within the gay community, all of these things exist.
Homosexuality is very... VERY common. Bisexuality is nearly a 'female trait' as nearly all women respond.. well let's just say positively... to sexual impulses of other females. Homosexuality has been with humanity for as long as we know it and it is also very well-documented amongst other animals, virtually all social animals. You might consider being gay an abolishment, while the truth is that you, Good Sir, are a biological abolishment if you think so.

For numbers feel free to also check: http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

Men
Ever had a sexual experience, not necessarily including genital contact, with a partner of the same sex? 8.4%
Ever had sex with a same sex partner, including genital contact? 6.3%
Have you had a same sex partner in the last five years? 2.6%

Women
Ever had a sexual experience, not necessarily including genital contact, with a partner of the same sex? 9.7%
Ever had sex with a same sex partner, including genital contact? 5.7%
Have you had a same sex partner in the last five years? 2.6%

These numbers are only growing as the narrow-minded and dogmatic view against gay people gets abolished. This was in the year 2000.
xcept wrote:Gays are sexual predators, gays are sodomists, gays are rapists, and pedophiles. So by your definition, none of this should be punished and they should all have extra rights.
Skipping this part. Not sure if laughter is considered a valid argument around these parts.
Last edited by T-mash on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #29

Post by JBlack »

xcept wrote:the problem with this is a person who has chosen to follow the gay lifestyle already has inalieable rights.
Can anyone prove that being gay is a choice?
xcept wrote:You are saying they should have additional rights. Suppose to take a black female lesbian. She already has rights as a woma,


You say this as if women have rights that men don't.
xcept wrote:and rights as a minority
You say this as if minorities have rights that whites don't.
xcept wrote:and you would be giving additional rights as a lesbian. What additional rights to give a heterosexual to balance the law out?


What right is anyone supposing that homosexuals be given that heterosexuals don't already have?
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Post #30

Post by T-mash »

JBlack wrote:
xcept wrote:the problem with this is a person who has chosen to follow the gay lifestyle already has inalieable rights.
Can anyone prove that being gay is a choice?
I'm sure the teenagers and (adults even) that committed suicide for being gay in an environment that does not accept them can tell you if being gay is a choice.
Isn’t this enough? Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
- Tim Minchin

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