New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Scotracer
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New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
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Post #41

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xcept wrote: Wiki as a source huh? Someone has an axe to grind. Either way, you don't want my opinion either since I view homosexuality as a sin. I will say that curing a sin nature is a very difficult thing to do and I really think it takes willingness from both ends. I don't think that someone could figure out a system that works to cure all the sexual sinners such as NARTH, but I know people do recover from he life of homosexuality. People can grow and have strength in Christ. Wiki isn't peer reviewed either by the way.
The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists cited in the wiki article are recognized scientific bodies. Wiki i s not peer reviewed but then most of my science reading is not. I generally read from secondary material published for general audiences with footnotes referring to the actual peer reviewed journals.
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Post #42

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Just my two cents on homosexuality as a choice:

I cannot, in my opinion, think of a single way in which homosexuality could be a choice. Wearing flamboyant clothing and marching in a gay pride parade may be a choice, but to actually be attracted to someone of the same sex simply cannot. I once got into an argument where I asked the other person why someone would choose to be gay. They responded "because they like it." I then asked whether they chose to like being gay. I got no response. Maybe xcept can help me out here.

Why would anyone choose to be gay?

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Post #43

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xcept wrote:
goat wrote:
xcept wrote:you can't prove there is a gay gene so this stops your entire debate dead in its tracks. Tjhere is nothing more to debate here.
I challenge your statement that 'you can't prove there is a gay gene'. This is a straw man, because no one said there is a gay gene. What was pointed out is that the mothers of men who are gay tend to be much more fertile. This provides a biological mechanism for why the percentage of gay individuals do not change no matter what the societal values are.
oh really now? Tend to be? That's of no help at all. How would this study work in China, where there is a limit of how many children a person can have? The study is a fraud based on that fact alone.
Wow, you are bringing up a political situation to try to justify ignoring a biological function. That is yet another straw man, and it is totally irrelevant.

Now, do you wish to discuss it rationally, or do you want to bring up side issues and emotional verbiage? Do you have any relevant point to make?
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Post #44

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I tend to think there are a number of factors involved besides genes but the genes might just help. I was reading that or "love maps" are formed by the time we are 5 and 6. I don't see how it would hurt the species of eons of time when there seems to be status. Not all males would mate anyway and biologically it would take less men then women to carry on. It seems we also evolved as a rather promiscuous as our sperm as evolved to attack other male sperm.
I find it all fascinating while our cultural ways of responding, as see by one of our posters, is lacking.

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Post #45

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Cathar1950 wrote:I tend to think there are a number of factors involved besides genes but the genes might just help. I was reading that or "love maps" are formed by the time we are 5 and 6. I don't see how it would hurt the species of eons of time when there seems to be status. Not all males would mate anyway and biologically it would take less men then women to carry on. It seems we also evolved as a rather promiscuous as our sperm as evolved to attack other male sperm.
I find it all fascinating while our cultural ways of responding, as see by one of our posters, is lacking.
firstly, I believe this to be an ignorant thread or at least turned into one. Whatever the OP was trying to do with their post is forever lost. Secondly, your post makes absolutely no sense and has nothing other than your opinion. So... eons of time and sperm attacking other sperm. Niiicceee.

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Post #46

Post by thatoneguy »

xcept wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:I tend to think there are a number of factors involved besides genes but the genes might just help. I was reading that or "love maps" are formed by the time we are 5 and 6. I don't see how it would hurt the species of eons of time when there seems to be status. Not all males would mate anyway and biologically it would take less men then women to carry on. It seems we also evolved as a rather promiscuous as our sperm as evolved to attack other male sperm.
I find it all fascinating while our cultural ways of responding, as see by one of our posters, is lacking.
firstly, I believe this to be an ignorant thread or at least turned into one. Whatever the OP was trying to do with their post is forever lost. Secondly, your post makes absolutely no sense and has nothing other than your opinion. So... eons of time and sperm attacking other sperm. Niiicceee.
Wait, are you calling us ignorant? Why is it us that our ignorant? I understand that you see homosexuality as a sin. Have you considered it from their perspective?

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Post #47

Post by Cathar1950 »

xcept wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:I tend to think there are a number of factors involved besides genes but the genes might just help. I was reading that or "love maps" are formed by the time we are 5 and 6. I don't see how it would hurt the species of eons of time when there seems to be status. Not all males would mate anyway and biologically it would take less men then women to carry on. It seems we also evolved as a rather promiscuous as our sperm as evolved to attack other male sperm.
I find it all fascinating while our cultural ways of responding, as see by one of our posters, is lacking.
firstly, I believe this to be an ignorant thread or at least turned into one. Whatever the OP was trying to do with their post is forever lost. Secondly, your post makes absolutely no sense and has nothing other than your opinion. So... eons of time and sperm attacking other sperm. Niiicceee.
As far as I am concerned you are no long in this discussion and I also reported you.
I really dislike gay bashing especially when they do it in the name of God.
Last edited by Cathar1950 on Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #48

Post by xcept »

Cathar1950 wrote:
xcept wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:I tend to think there are a number of factors involved besides genes but the genes might just help. I was reading that or "love maps" are formed by the time we are 5 and 6. I don't see how it would hurt the species of eons of time when there seems to be status. Not all males would mate anyway and biologically it would take less men then women to carry on. It seems we also evolved as a rather promiscuous as our sperm as evolved to attack other male sperm.
I find it all fascinating while our cultural ways of responding, as see by one of our posters, is lacking.
firstly, I believe this to be an ignorant thread or at least turned into one. Whatever the OP was trying to do with their post is forever lost. Secondly, your post makes absolutely no sense and has nothing other than your opinion. So... eons of time and sperm attacking other sperm. Niiicceee.
As far as I am concerned you are no long in this discussion and I also reported you.
I really dislike gat bashing especially when they do it in the name of God.
oh I'm sorry... is english a second language for you? What is gat bashing? I've never heard of that word. I couldn't find it on wiki or dictionary.com. either way your post made absolutely no sense.

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Post #49

Post by T-mash »

xcept wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:
xcept wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:I tend to think there are a number of factors involved besides genes but the genes might just help. I was reading that or "love maps" are formed by the time we are 5 and 6. I don't see how it would hurt the species of eons of time when there seems to be status. Not all males would mate anyway and biologically it would take less men then women to carry on. It seems we also evolved as a rather promiscuous as our sperm as evolved to attack other male sperm.
I find it all fascinating while our cultural ways of responding, as see by one of our posters, is lacking.
firstly, I believe this to be an ignorant thread or at least turned into one. Whatever the OP was trying to do with their post is forever lost. Secondly, your post makes absolutely no sense and has nothing other than your opinion. So... eons of time and sperm attacking other sperm. Niiicceee.
As far as I am concerned you are no long in this discussion and I also reported you.
I really dislike gat bashing especially when they do it in the name of God.
oh I'm sorry... is english a second language for you? What is gat bashing? I've never heard of that word. I couldn't find it on wiki or dictionary.com. either way your post made absolutely no sense.
Really? I could. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gat
Maybe we should start doubting your 'research' if you can't even 'research' a word in a dictionary ^^
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Post #50

Post by JBlack »

xcept wrote:oh I'm sorry... is english a second language for you? What is gat bashing? I've never heard of that word. I couldn't find it on wiki or dictionary.com. either way your post made absolutely no sense.
T-Mash wrote:Really? I could. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gat
Maybe we should start doubting your 'research' if you can't even 'research' a word in a dictionary ^^
LMAO!

It's on wiki as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gat wrote:The word Gat can refer to:

Gat (hat), a traditional article of Korean clothing composed of a cylindrical black hat with wide rims
Gat (music), a composition set to a cyclic rhythm in instrumental North Indian classical music
a slang term for a handgun or a machine pistol, derived from "Gatling gun"[1] Can also refer to firearms more generally
Gat gun, a slang name for the invasive weed kudzu
an honorary title from the Philippines usually accorded to great men or leaders[citation needed]
Kenati language ISO 639-3 code
Places
Hat, Azerbaijan, a village
In Israel
Gath (city), an ancient Philistine city mentioned in the Bible
Gat, Israel, a kibbutz in modern Israel
Gat Rimon, a moshav in central Israel
Kiryat Gat, a city in modern Israel
Gt utca, a short quiet street off Haller utca in central Ferencvros, Budapest, Hungary
Fishermans Gat, a channel in the Thames Estuary
Veerse Gat, a sea channel between Walcheren and Noord-Beveland islands in Zeeland in the Netherlands
People
Gat Pangil, a chieftain in the area now known as Laguna Province, Philippines
Gat Stires (1849-1933), a Major League Baseball right fielder
Azar Gat (born 1959), an Israeli researcher and author on military history
Eliahu Gat (1919"1987), an Israeli landscape painter
Gyrgy Gt (born 1947), a Hungarian television director and producer
Wong Lo Gat, the founder of Wong Lo Gat herbal tea, a Chinese herbal tea company
The acronym GAT can refer to:

GAT automotive company, a company formerly based in Estonia during the early 60's to late 80's
GAT (jeans), a clothing company specializing in jeans and shirts
GAT-X series or Gressorial Armament Tactical, a term for a Mobile Suit Gundam SEED mobile fictional weapon
GAT-1, the GABA transporter 1, a human protein
8GAT, the British Rail Class 460 electrical multiple unit built by Alstom from 2000
C7.GAT protein, a zinc finger protein based on the C7 protein
General Achievement Test, a test taken by students in Victoria, Australia prior to completing their Victorian Certificate of Education
Genius Association for Tomorrow, a humanitarian organization founded out of Endicott, New York
Gifted and Talented, a demographic in education
Greek Air Transport, a Greek-flagged airline that operated domestic and international airline service from 1947 to 1951
Ground Armored Tank, a fictional vehicle from the Star Wars: The Clone Wars video game
Guidance Automation Toolkit, one of the pillars of the Microsoft "Software Factory" vision along with the DSLTools
It might be a good idea to actually look up a word before you declare it's not a word and that you couldn't find it.
xcept wrote:firstly, I believe this to be an ignorant thread or at least turned into one.
Why don't you educate us all?

You can start with providing evidence that homosexuality is a choice?
"Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." - Thomas Paine

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