New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Scotracer
Guru
Posts: 1772
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Scotland

New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
micatala
Site Supporter
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:04 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Post #111

Post by micatala »

Moderator Intervention


Wow, you had one hell of a bad one-night-stand then. Sorry to hear that
Again, let's leave out the personal assumptions.
thatoneguy wrote: sorry, one more thing.
Quote:
One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year



LMAO
Not really productive. Go ahead and refute the assertion but simply laughing at it is not really debate.

User avatar
thatoneguy
Scholar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:34 am
Location: USA

Post #112

Post by thatoneguy »

superimposed wrote:The initial act which pushes someone in the direction of being gay is a choice or perhaps that person was being persuaded. But most certainly a person has a choice to leave that lifestyle.
They can leave the lifestyle, but they can't change who they are attracted to. Or do you believe that people choose their attractions?

And again, could you choose to be gay if you so decided?

User avatar
Goat
Site Supporter
Posts: 24999
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:09 pm
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post #113

Post by Goat »

superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:superimposed, do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
look back to the story of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve had a choice to obey Gods commandment and not eart from the tree of knowledge. The serpent being angry at God came and tempted Eve by lying to her and she believed it, then she told Adam to do the same because he trusted her and she took that trust and had his disobey God. After the fall they had the consequences for their actions. They were forgiven but the sin effect is still there. A person can be coaxed or tempted to have a man give him sexual please, and because they liked it, obviously the nerves and feeling is the same whether its a male or female doing the pleasing then the boy would like it and think it was great. Often times boys that do such is before they are intimate with a woman. So they think sex is sex and they will reason out why they did like it. They will say it can't be my fault. I must have been born that way. Its sad and very bad for the persons life who gets caught up in it.
And what does an ancient morality story have to do with if someone is attracted both physically and emotionally to the same gender or not?

Do you have any actual evidence for what you are saying? You make some claims , now show some evidence. Can you show some peer reviewed phsycological journals that say that same thing?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2576 times

Post #114

Post by JoeyKnothead »

goat wrote: And what does an ancient morality story have to do with if someone is attracted both physically and emotionally to the same gender or not?
God don't like. I know, I didn't hear Him either, but this'n hear swears up and down He don't like hit.
joeyknuccione wrote: Do you have any actual evidence for what you are saying? You make some claims , now show some evidence. Can you show some peer reviewed phsycological journals that say that same thing?
No. Neither do those who speak for gods. If these gods I hear of are as great as claimed, how foolish do I think they are for using a human to tell me when they're capable of telling me face to face?

I trust no gods that'll try to rule me by using the very fallible humans I'm told they made. I'll not concede my humanity to any god, for any price.

>This post brought to you by the good folks over at Georgia the USA.

superimposed
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:13 am

Post #115

Post by superimposed »

thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:The initial act which pushes someone in the direction of being gay is a choice or perhaps that person was being persuaded. But most certainly a person has a choice to leave that lifestyle.
They can leave the lifestyle, but they can't change who they are attracted to. Or do you believe that people choose their attractions?

And again, could you choose to be gay if you so decided?
:(

Yup, if I chose to I could be gay. You can believe you are a certain lifestyle and get caught up in that but you will always have a way out.

Yes just like a man can choose to be more attracted to or like blond women, or tall women, or red heads, or asian chicks, etc.

User avatar
thatoneguy
Scholar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:34 am
Location: USA

Post #116

Post by thatoneguy »

superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:The initial act which pushes someone in the direction of being gay is a choice or perhaps that person was being persuaded. But most certainly a person has a choice to leave that lifestyle.
They can leave the lifestyle, but they can't change who they are attracted to. Or do you believe that people choose their attractions?

And again, could you choose to be gay if you so decided?
:(

Yup, if I chose to I could be gay. You can believe you are a certain lifestyle and get caught up in that but you will always have a way out.

Yes just like a man can choose to be more attracted to or like blond women, or tall women, or red heads, or asian chicks, etc.
Wait, so attractions of all kinds are choices? That's a relief.

User avatar
Goat
Site Supporter
Posts: 24999
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:09 pm
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post #117

Post by Goat »

superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:The initial act which pushes someone in the direction of being gay is a choice or perhaps that person was being persuaded. But most certainly a person has a choice to leave that lifestyle.
They can leave the lifestyle, but they can't change who they are attracted to. Or do you believe that people choose their attractions?

And again, could you choose to be gay if you so decided?
:(

Yup, if I chose to I could be gay. You can believe you are a certain lifestyle and get caught up in that but you will always have a way out.

Yes just like a man can choose to be more attracted to or like blond women, or tall women, or red heads, or asian chicks, etc.
Could you? I know I could not choose who I am attracted too.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

superimposed
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:13 am

Post #118

Post by superimposed »

goat wrote:
superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:The initial act which pushes someone in the direction of being gay is a choice or perhaps that person was being persuaded. But most certainly a person has a choice to leave that lifestyle.
They can leave the lifestyle, but they can't change who they are attracted to. Or do you believe that people choose their attractions?

And again, could you choose to be gay if you so decided?
:(

Yup, if I chose to I could be gay. You can believe you are a certain lifestyle and get caught up in that but you will always have a way out.

Yes just like a man can choose to be more attracted to or like blond women, or tall women, or red heads, or asian chicks, etc.
Could you? I know I could not choose who I am attracted too.
good for you. Married men do it all the time. They may see a much more alluring woman and choose to stay attracted to their wife and not seek after or fantasize about the other one.

User avatar
thatoneguy
Scholar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:34 am
Location: USA

Post #119

Post by thatoneguy »

superimposed wrote:They may see a much more alluring woman and choose to stay attracted to their wife and not seek after or fantasize about the other one.
Did they choose to find that woman more alluring?

I'm not denying the human mind's ability to repress thoughts/lie to itself, I'm asking if the initial attraction is a choice. Despite your claim, you seem to think so since you acknowledge that they find another woman more alluring. The choice is in whether or not to pursue the allure, but they do not choose to be allured. No decent married man would choose to find another woman attractive.

In short, even you implied that there was something inherently alluring about that other woman which the man could not control, even if he controlled his reaction.
Last edited by thatoneguy on Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Cathar1950
Site Supporter
Posts: 10503
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: Michigan(616)
Been thanked: 2 times

Post #120

Post by Cathar1950 »

superimposed wrote: :(

Yup, if I chose to I could be gay. You can believe you are a certain lifestyle and get caught up in that but you will always have a way out.

Yes just like a man can choose to be more attracted to or like blond women, or tall women, or red heads, or asian chicks, etc.
That is most likely because you are gay or bisexual which seems the obvious as you seem to have a choice implying attraction.
There is no reason to get caught up in the gay lifestyle if your not gay.

Post Reply