New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Scotracer
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New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens

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thatoneguy
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Post #131

Post by thatoneguy »

ahem...
thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:They may see a much more alluring woman and choose to stay attracted to their wife and not seek after or fantasize about the other one.
Did they choose to find that woman more alluring?

I'm not denying the human mind's ability to repress thoughts/lie to itself, I'm asking if the initial attraction is a choice. Despite your claim, you seem to think so since you acknowledge that they find another woman more alluring. The choice is in whether or not to pursue the allure, but they do not choose to be allured. No decent married man would choose to find another woman attractive.

In short, even you implied that there was something inherently alluring about that other woman which the man could not control, even if he controlled his reaction.

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Post #132

Post by superimposed »

Yeah yeah, I'm glad to see you enjoy ribbing me.

I lived in San Diego. CA and I went to pick up my buddy to help me move as I was moving to TX the nxt day. So he was downtown waiting for me at a parkinglot and apparently this afr-amer guy was harrassing him for whatever reason. So when I picked him up I asked him, what's that guys problem? He told me I should run him over with my car. I laughed and said no thank you. So I pull up to leave the parkinglot and he walks up to me window and flips me off.
I backed the car up nd got out, I asked him why he flipped me off, he said he didn't. I walked towards him and he took a swing at me and I kicked his legs out when he fell I gave him another kick, kinda like a giraffe kicks their young to get up, but his head hit the concrete so I got in the car and he got up and threw a rock at my car as I drove off.
Yeah coulda killed the guy when his head hit the pavement, I moved from that city the next day so (I never saw him again in order to beat his ass for throwing that rock at my car. Maybe when I visit there over spring break I will run into him.) (Sarcasm).

For the record I was a christian but also trusted the views of evolution then. I think I just believed that God made the gasses that made the big bang. And that neandertals were existent on the earth as a separate species from Adam and Eve. I don't remember but it was strange. And I think I believed that Cain got his wife from this other race or beings neandertals so on and so on. It was silly to try to reconcile the two views like that I'm sure.

cnorman18

Post #133

Post by cnorman18 »

superimposed wrote:Yeah yeah, I'm glad to see you enjoy ribbing me.

I lived in San Diego. CA and I went to pick up my buddy to help me move as I was moving to TX the nxt day. So he was downtown waiting for me at a parkinglot and apparently this afr-amer guy was harrassing him for whatever reason. So when I picked him up I asked him, what's that guys problem? He told me I should run him over with my car. I laughed and said no thank you. So I pull up to leave the parkinglot and he walks up to me window and flips me off.
I backed the car up nd got out, I asked him why he flipped me off, he said he didn't. I walked towards him and he took a swing at me and I kicked his legs out when he fell I gave him another kick, kinda like a giraffe kicks their young to get up, but his head hit the concrete so I got in the car and he got up and threw a rock at my car as I drove off.
Yeah coulda killed the guy when his head hit the pavement, I moved from that city the next day so (I never saw him again in order to beat his ass for throwing that rock at my car. Maybe when I visit there over spring break I will run into him.) (Sarcasm).

For the record I was a christian but also trusted the views of evolution then. I think I just believed that God made the gasses that made the big bang. And that neandertals were existent on the earth as a separate species from Adam and Eve. I don't remember but it was strange. And I think I believed that Cain got his wife from this other race or beings neandertals so on and so on. It was silly to try to reconcile the two views like that I'm sure.
And in your story, you knew that this guy was gay - how?

And his homosexuality was relevant to this tale - how?

And your beliefs about evolution and neanderthals are relevant to this narrative - how?

In any case, I don't see a lot of humble Christian repentance and remorse for this incident here - just the same old puffed-up breast-beating; "This is how tough I am..." The usual, ordinary macho posturing you can hear in any bar. Imagine Jesus doing this, and then bragging about it like this.

Didn't Jesus say something about taking the beam out of your own eye before preaching to others about how they ought to behave? You have a lot of serious thought and reflection before you if you want to dictate morality to other people.

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FinalEnigma
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Post #134

Post by FinalEnigma »

I am not 'ribbing' and I am not dropping this. These statement do not square up:

no but I did put a whoopin on a gay dude one time cuz he stepped over the line. Mighta been your dad.
actually I wasn't really very Christian then. I was just out of the marines. He was picking on a friend of mine, then he thought he would flip me off for intervening. So I beat him down. Maybe he picked up a good life lesson, don't bite off more than you can chew.

VS


I walked towards him and he took a swing at me and I kicked his legs out when he fell I gave him another kick, kinda like a giraffe kicks their young to get up, but his head hit the concrete so I got in the car and he got up and threw a rock at my car as I drove off.

That is not what you meant when you said you 'put a whoopin on' him, or that you 'beat him down'

Nowhere in your story was there any mention or indication of him being homosexual. you said he was harassing your friend. the behavior you described sounds more like a drunk than a random, militant homosexual.



I think its more like you realized that you stepped way the hell over the line and backpedaled furiously to come up with a seemingly plausible lie to explain your hate crime, or you were lieing to begin with and are trying desperately to find a way to save face. Which is it?
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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Post #135

Post by superimposed »

No the story is true and yes he was harrassing my friend sexually by trying to get at him. But that part was hearsy on my part since he told me that's what he was doing. The purpose of telling you this was merely to show I wasn't always a strong christian and make mistakes and am not perfect. But I'm forgiven.

Sure, I probably should've rolled up my window and drove off. But I didn't. It was wrong I know. But it happened and that's that.

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FinalEnigma
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Post #136

Post by FinalEnigma »

superimposed wrote:No the story is true and yes he was harrassing my friend sexually by trying to get at him. But that part was hearsy on my part since he told me that's what he was doing.
so you 'put a whoopin' on a 'gay dude' for stepping over the line that you didn't know he'd crossed until after you 'beat him down'?
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

cnorman18

Post #137

Post by cnorman18 »

superimposed wrote:No the story is true and yes he was harrassing my friend sexually by trying to get at him. But that part was hearsy on my part since he told me that's what he was doing. The purpose of telling you this was merely to show I wasn't always a strong christian and make mistakes and am not perfect. But I'm forgiven.

Sure, I probably should've rolled up my window and drove off. But I didn't. It was wrong I know. But it happened and that's that.

The point of saying "I did put a whoopin on a gay dude one time when he stepped over the line. Mighta been your dad" was "to show I wasn't always a strong Christian and make mistakes and am not perfect"?

Well, I think you were successful at that, but probably not in the way you intended. I bet you even think you're fooling someone with that phony disclaimer.

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Post #138

Post by superimposed »

FinalEnigma wrote:
superimposed wrote:No the story is true and yes he was harrassing my friend sexually by trying to get at him. But that part was hearsy on my part since he told me that's what he was doing.
so you 'put a whoopin' on a 'gay dude' for stepping over the line that you didn't know he'd crossed until after you 'beat him down'?
no, my friend told me the dude was grabbin him. And he said he's a fag. But its neither here nor there. I was being funny with the your dad comment. Ha ha. Still very funny to me actually. Kinda like those "yo momma" jokes. They are funny the first time around, but that's it.

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Post #139

Post by superimposed »

I'm very happy to have derailed this conversation to the ridiculous, as I thought it was a ridiculous thread to begin with.

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micatala
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Post #140

Post by micatala »

Moderator Formal Warning

superimposed wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:
superimposed wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:
superimposed wrote: :(

Yup, if I chose to I could be gay. You can believe you are a certain lifestyle and get caught up in that but you will always have a way out.

Yes just like a man can choose to be more attracted to or like blond women, or tall women, or red heads, or asian chicks, etc.
That is most likely because you are gay or bisexual which seems the obvious as you seem to have a choice implying attraction.
There is no reason to get caught up in the gay lifestyle if your not gay.
I think you are referring to your dad, don't worry I won hold that against you.
What does my dad have to do with anything?
If you are attracted to men and if it is a choice or option to you then it is more likely you are gay unless you don't believe in attraction.
You are saying you could be gay which is wrongly saying that being gay is just a behavior or act and has nothing to do with attraction. Most hetrosexuals pronbable couldn't be attracted to a man unless they could think of them as somehow what they are attrsacted to.
But my dad has nothing to do with you being attracted to men and not acting upon it.
Maybe You are a self loathing repressed homosexual, how can we tell the difference?
no but I did put a whoopin on a gay dude one time cuz he stepped over the line. Mighta been your dad.
This is inflammatory and personal.

Further posts by superimposed may be subject to arbitrary deletion.

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