Criticizing Christianity is a lost cause

[john.livingstone@lr]

The best thing about Christianity is that even though it attempts to explain certain events and the beginning of the world, the good book does not attempt to disprove others and their beliefs. The Christian religion is a big group of loving friends, we support God and his message and in the end we are all looking to better our lives through Christ. It makes very little sense to me as to why folks seem to get a kick out of trying to discredit Christianity. The Church is about self improvement, positive self-reflection and love of one another. And with a message this positive, why would an individual attempt to discredit the Bible on the basis of the creation or Noah's Ark or Adam and Eve. These are merely stories with the intent of explaining the progression of man and the Earth. The purpose of Christianity is to improve a person's life through God, not to explain the wonders of the world. And all of the people out there spewing hate about Christianity simply because they heard about why Christianity is unbelievable or how evolution better explains the origins of the world are simply wasting their time because Christians don't care what you have to say if the message isn't positive.

[Flail]

Christianity is the number one religion for being arrogant and exclusive...the Church teaches that if you are not Christian, God sends you to suffer eternally in Hell...thus Christianity condemns all other religions and is the single most divisive(followed closely by Islam) form of superstion.

I agree with the OP in that it is impossible to argue with a Christian...since they do not come by their beliefs by evidence but rather by indoctrination,no amount of evidence can overcome their superstious and faulty mind set.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

I'd say not so much when that history occurs within one's lifetime. Catholic scandals at the highest levels, murdering abortion doctors, Westboro Baptist, there's plenty in the here and now to consider some to many to perhaps a majority of Christians would relish a return to "the good old days" of oppressing and killing any and all who oppose Christianity.

It's sad that so many Christians bemoan violent Hollywood movies, while ignoring the violence within, and as a product of their sacred book.

Yet I'm here, living in safety, enjoying having rights and the like. Would you have had that a few odd hundred years ago?

Of course not, however, an oppression is an oppression, and when such occurs we can and should call it by what it is.

My referenced post was in response to one who painted all Christians as loving, kind, etc., and that is not supported in history - today, last week, last year, in the recent past, or throughout the rest of Christian history. Just as I can't say all Christians are haters, it is just as wrong to say they all ain't haters.

Of course we can say the Christian religion teaches love and peace and all that how do ya do, but I contend we can also measure it by the outcomes of its teachings. In this metric we can see Christianity is, like so many religions, a divisive ideology, with its own ideologues and bullies. By declaring Christianity the moral authority - no, the absolute moral authority - when we throw unstable humans into the mix this authority gets abused. When an ideology says that person x is a demon, then who are we to say killing or hurting that "demon" is wrong, when all we have is a book declaring itself the moral judge?

I speak in general here, there's exceptions to every rule, but I think the point valid if only because you can't always tell who's who...
Christianity all too often precludes rational thought, because so much of rational thought must be tossed aside in order to maintain the belief. Two thousand years and more of history tells us to be wary of Christians, and in fact most religions, if only based on the violence contained in their sacred texts. When violence is promoted in God's name, then all who act on this violence can, will, and often are considered "righteous". When we fear the righteous, then what good is a God for anyway?

I don't mean this to be a rant against Christians because they're pretty much like any other group. They have their sinners and saints like all others, but I find it especially problematic trying to counter or defend against those irrational folks who latch onto irrational ideologies.

[Flail]

Most Christians are credulous individuals who do not require evidence for their beliefs but who are so indoctrinated that they see the forms of their particular indoctrination as evidence.

[Flashpoint]

Yet I'm here, living in safety, enjoying having rights and the like. Would you have had that a few odd hundred years ago?

Yet here I am sitting in a predominantly (79% at last count) Christian country with one of the highest murder rates on the planet? In my life I've seen more innocent blood spilt than a veal farmer would see in his entire career (well not literally, but you get the point).

I've also seen many, many Afrikaners support their racist ideologies through use of the bible. The dominant Christian church during apartheid even used the bible to justify their hatred of other races.

The day we can no longer critisize such destructive ideologies is the day that democracy has truly died.

[Cathar1950]

Yet I'm here, living in safety, enjoying having rights and the like. Would you have had that a few odd hundred years ago?

Yet here I am sitting in a predominantly (79% at last count) Christian country with one of the highest murder rates on the planet? In my life I've seen more innocent blood spilt than a veal farmer would see in his entire career (well not literally, but you get the point).

I've also seen many, many Afrikaners support their racist ideologies through use of the bible. The dominant Christian church during apartheid even used the bible to justify their hatred of other races.

The day we can no longer critisize such destructive ideologies is the day that democracy has truly died.

Harold Bloom said something like being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you a worse person.
I think criticism is good for Christianity from both within and without as it helps them adapt. I am reminded of a episode in "the Sopranos" where the psychologist wonders if his therapy just makes him a more effective sociopath.
C. Hartshorne, and Whitehead I believe, say atheism as a critic of poor theism or poor concepts of God.

[Flashpoint]

Harold Bloom said something like being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you a worse person.

Most definitely. I might not agree with the theist worldview, but I can see many good people who are Christians, although I believe they are good people besides their Christianity, not due to it.

C. Hartshorne, and Whitehead I believe, say atheism as a critic of poor theism or poor concepts of God.

I agree. The only way for any belief system, moral doctrine, government, science etc. to be considered valid it must first be streamlined by the erosive forces of critisism. It's tragic that some people wish to shield their ideas from critisism,

[Sir Rhetor]

And with a message this positive, why would an individual attempt to discredit the Bible on the basis of the creation or Noah's Ark or Adam and Eve. These are merely stories with the intent of explaining the progression of man and the Earth. The purpose of Christianity is to improve a person's life through God, not to explain the wonders of the world.

And...there's a man out there (in federal prison now) named Kent Hovind, and his perspective is quite the opposite. Before being booked for tax evasion, the man gave seminars in which he supported young-earth creationism. You see, even though people like you can see that the stories are either "allegorical" (they're really not) or simply ignore the stories, there are Kent Hovinds out there too. And it is their full intention to make America hell by undoing or denying solid science.

[Kral]

So criticizing people for believing in fairy tales as absolute truth when all empirical evidence would point to much of what is written within their chosen scripture as being incorrect is a lost cause?

I agree. Sam Clemens rule.

[Sir Rhetor]

I find it unfortunate, however, that the initiator of this topic is no longer around to defend his beliefs. How, after seeing what we say, is the original argument justified?

[East of Eden]

This leads into the second problem, the refusal of Christianity to stay out of public policy.

Exactly what some wanted ML King to do.

Legislating things like not allowing Gays to marry the ones they love,

The gay marriage referendum lost by 52% in CA. There aren't enough evangelical Christians there to do that.

refusal to elect different religious opinions,

Are you also opposed to the grief Bush and Palin got for expressing their religious opinions?

or trying to put literal interpretations of Genesis into classrooms to promote ignorance that holds us back as a species.

Discussing Intelligent Design is not 'putting literal interpretations of Genesis into classrooms'. There are a number of non-Christians who believe the scientific evidence supports design. Here is one: http://www.davidberlinski.org/

Many times have I heard a self-proclaimed Christian say "the Bible says the poor will always be with us" and do so to mean we should do nothing about poverty or hunger.

The poor WILL always be with us, but I don't know of any Christians who say to do nothing about it. Non-Christians will always be with us, but it doesn't negate the Great Commission either. Christians do more than any other group, bar none, to alleviate the condition of the poor. Just one Christian aid group, World Vision www.worldvision.org serves 100,000,000 needy people in 100 countries, regardless of creed. What similar atheist groups are there?