Noah's Ark

[East of Eden]

Anyone want to speculate how a large boat got on top of a 13,000' mountain?




Has Noah's Ark Been Found on Turkish Mountaintop?

FOXNews.com

The remains of Noah's Ark have been discovered 13,000 feet up a Turkish mountain -- according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers.


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Noahs Ark Ministries International

An explorer examines wooden beams inside what some are nearly certain is the remains of Noah's Ark.

A group of Chinese and Turkish evangelical explorers say wooden remains they have discovered on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey are the remains of Noah's Ark.

The group claims that carbon dating proves the relics are 4,800 years old, meaning they date to around the same time the ark was said to be afloat. Mt. Ararat has long been suspected as the final resting place of the craft by evangelicals and literalists hoping to validate biblical stories.

Yeung Wing-Cheung, from the Noah's Ark Ministries International research team that made the discovery, said: "It's not 100 percent that it is Noah's Ark, but we think it is 99.9 percent that this is it."

There have been several reported discoveries of the remains of Noah's Ark over the years, most notably a find by archaeologist Ron Wyatt in 1987. At the time, the Turkish government officially declared a national park around his find, a boat-shaped object stretched across the mountains of Ararat.

Nevertheless, the evangelical ministry remains convinced that the current find is in fact more likely to be the actual artifact, calling upon Dutch Ark researcher Gerrit Aalten to verify its legitimacy.

The significance of this find is that for the first time in history the discovery of Noahs Ark is well documented and revealed to the worldwide community, Aalten said at a press conference announcing the find. Citing the many details that match historical accounts of the Ark, he believes it to be a legitimate archaeological discovery.

Theres a tremendous amount of solid evidence that the structure found on Mount Ararat in Eastern Turkey is the legendary Ark of Noah, said Aalten.

Representatives of Noah's Ark Ministries said the structure contained several compartments, some with wooden beams, that they believe were used to house animals.The group of evangelical archaeologists ruled out an established human settlement on the grounds none have ever been found above 11,000 feet in the vicinity, Yeung said.

During the press conference, team member Panda Lee described visiting the site. In October 2008, I climbed the mountain with the Turkish team. At an elevation of more than 4,000 meters, I saw a structure built with plank-like timber. Each plank was about 8 inches wide. I could see tenons, proof of ancient construction predating the use of metal nails."

We walked about 100 meters to another site. I could see broken wood fragments embedded in a glacier, and some 20 meters long. I surveyed the landscape and found that the wooden structure was permanently covered by ice and volcanic rocks."

Local Turkish officials will ask the central government in Ankara to apply for UNESCO World Heritage status so the site can be protected while a major archaeological dig is conducted.

The biblical story says that God decided to flood the Earth after seeing how corrupt it was. He then told Noah to build an ark and fill it with two of every animal species.

After the flood waters receded, the Bible says, the ark came to rest on a mountain. Many believe that Mount Ararat, the highest point in the region, is where the ark and her inhabitants ran aground.

[Greatest I Am]

How does the purported discovery of an old boat prove Jesus?

I don't know if this is a response to my post since it came right after mine, but isn't your question a red-herring? I haven't see anyone claim that Noah's ark would prove that Jesus exists. It would at least provide some archaeological evidence for some parts of what the Bible mentions about Noah's ark.

Strange to think that Jesus/God, who would not stone a prostitute in the N T, did a complete flip from his earlier persona who would drown innocent children and babies.

I guess he got his fill of murdering us in the O T.

Thank that stupid God for that.

Regards
DL

[lao tzu]

In response to the OP, I'm optimistic about the purported finding being Noah's ark but of course I would not be surprised if it isn't. I don't know of many hoaxes when it comes to Noah's ark sightings but rather the issue has been there hasn't been much done beyond just the sightings, like lots of scholars and explorers scaling the mountain to locate the Ark based on the general vicinity of the sightings. Maybe there's political tensions in the area besides the potentially hard-to-reach mountain area.

Hello Angel,

It's a hoax. I'm kind of surprised to find no one has linked the debunking yet. It's been out for days.

Even if a boat were to be found high up on a mountain somewhere in the region, the abundance of evidence against a global flood sufficient to land it there would remain. On the one hand, we'd have a boat, far up a mountain. On the other, we'd have the lack of a global sedimentation layer, the archaeological continuity of diverse cultural artifacts, the biogeographical continuity of distinct genera in distinct locations, the lack of sufficient water to cover the landmasses, the heat problems associated with transporting that much fluid, et. al.

A conclusion that incorporated all of these facts would be that the boat was transported there by humans, not by a flood. Unsurprisingly, that's what we actually find in this case.

As ever, Jesse

[Angel]

How does the purported discovery of an old boat prove Jesus?

I don't know if this is a response to my post since it came right after mine, but isn't your question a red-herring? I haven't see anyone claim that Noah's ark would prove that Jesus exists. It would at least provide some archaeological evidence for some parts of what the Bible mentions about Noah's ark.

Strange to think that Jesus/God, who would not stone a prostitute in the N T, did a complete flip from his earlier persona who would drown innocent children and babies.

I guess he got his fill of murdering us in the O T.

Thank that stupid God for that.

Regards
DL

Isn't that a bit off-topic? The discovery of Noah's Ark is an archaeological matter, and not necessarily theological issue like what you're bringing up.

[Angel]

In response to the OP, I'm optimistic about the purported finding being Noah's ark but of course I would not be surprised if it isn't. I don't know of many hoaxes when it comes to Noah's ark sightings but rather the issue has been there hasn't been much done beyond just the sightings, like lots of scholars and explorers scaling the mountain to locate the Ark based on the general vicinity of the sightings. Maybe there's political tensions in the area besides the potentially hard-to-reach mountain area.

Here's another link I found from National Geographic:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... n-culture/

In the article there's also a YouTube video of the team who made the latest claim to have found the ark. The video shows them walking around at the site of the ark.[/

Hello Angel,

It's a hoax. I'm kind of surprised to find no one has linked the debunking yet. It's been out for days.

Even if a boat were to be found high up on a mountain somewhere in the region, the abundance of evidence against a global flood sufficient to land it there would remain. On the one hand, we'd have a boat, far up a mountain. On the other, we'd have the lack of a global sedimentation layer, the archaeological continuity of diverse cultural artifacts, the biogeographical continuity of distinct genera in distinct locations, the lack of sufficient water to cover the landmasses, the heat problems associated with transporting that much fluid, et. al.

A conclusion that incorporated all of these facts would be that the boat was transported there by humans, not by a flood. Unsurprisingly, that's what we actually find in this case.

As ever, Jesse

The site that you linked to is a blog site which is hardly a reputable source to credit or discredit any claim. The author of the blog claims to have a copy of an email from a student (the name is not given) that the latest claims of discovering Noah's ark are fake.

Who is this student? How do I know that he really received this email as opposed to making the email up? Where is the original email or why is this not published on any credible news media source rather than on blogs?

I'm willing to start simple eventhough I'll readily say I'm optimistic but that doesn't mean my reason and sensibility goes out the window. If the latest claims of Noah's Ark are valid, we at least have a boat-like structure stuck 13,000 feet up a mountain. I'd want to know who, what, where, when, and how. And you nor anyone else are in any position to answer unless there is some REAL independent source verification. The alleged email on that site doesn't help much in convincing me for or against any position.

[Goat]

Isn't that a bit off-topic? The discovery of Noah's Ark is an archaeological matter, and not necessarily theological issue like what you're bringing up.

No, it is a religious one. You see, the only reason people go looking for the ark is a religious one, and the only way people misinterpret data is false hope.

It appears that a number of these folks are taking advantage of the unrealistic hope of believers and scamming them.

[Angel]

Isn't that a bit off-topic? The discovery of Noah's Ark is an archaeological matter, and not necessarily theological issue like what you're bringing up.

No, it is a religious one. You see, the only reason people go looking for the ark is a religious one, and the only way people misinterpret data is false hope.

It appears that a number of these folks are taking advantage of the unrealistic hope of believers and scamming them.

In this case I will go by evidence, and that can be found with either religious or non-religious motives just as long as credible methods are still used.

Do you have any verifiable evidence that this recent Noah's Ark discovery claim is a scam? Logically and objectively, I take a neutral stance, although emotionally I'm more optimistic but I'll change that if I can be offered any real evidence either way and more than just hearsay.

[lao tzu]

The site that you linked to is a blog site which is hardly a reputable source to credit or discredit any claim. The author of the blog claims to have a copy of an email from a student (the name is not given) that the latest claims of discovering Noah's ark are fake.

Who is this student? How do I know that he really received this email as opposed to making the email up? Where is the original email or why is this not published on any credible news media source rather than on blogs?

Well, why didn't you check? Seriously, why not? It's not a tough exercise. More, where is your skepticism on the other side? What about the equivalent questions you should be asking about this Chinese expedition? Who are they and where do they get their money? (They're not academics; they run a Noah's ark theme park in Hong Kong.)

Christians have a reputation for being gulled in by these things. You have to know every skeptic on the block reacts to these annual announcements with hardly suppressed glee. We think, rightly or wrongly, that yet another demonstration of Christians being led astray by their faith reflects on your entire epistemology. If you'd believe this, you'd believe ... well, anything. And conversely, we think the fact you already swallow incredible claims in the name of your faith is what sets you up for this kind of embarrassment.

The best part of this kind of story for skeptics is the moral freedom we have to scoff. It's not like we pulled some kind of gotcha on you. You do this to yourselves. All we have to do is watch the show unfold, and cook up another batch of popcorn.

I'm willing to start simple even though I'll readily say I'm optimistic but that doesn't mean my reason and sensibility goes out the window. If the latest claims of Noah's Ark are valid, we at least have a boat-like structure stuck 13,000 feet up a mountain. I'd want to know who, what, where, when, and how. And you nor anyone else are in any position to answer unless there is some REAL independent source verification. The alleged email on that site doesn't help much in convincing me for or against any position.

Where did you get the impression this was a boat-like structure? It's a few pieces of wood in a cave. A cave whose location they won't disclose. Wood that they're claiming has been dated in a lab they won't disclose.

Now, as you seem content to allow others to take care of the questions, Dr. Price has confirmed the email was genuine elsewhere.

News of the hoaxing is showing up everywhere.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-I ... -in-Turkey

Price declined to elaborate. However, a leaked email from Price " which he confirms that he wrote " shows that he has reason to believe that a group of local Kurdish men trucked wood up to the mountain and staged an elaborate hoax for the Chinese team.

The group making the claim has been torn apart by competent archaeologists engaged in an attempt to take back the credibility these "ark-eologists" have stolen from their field.

It's a hoax.

But we knew that going in, because, after all, all of the other evidence there was no global flood to lift a boat up there remains. A few sticks of wood in a cave don't change that. These other data are not erased; they must be accounted for.

As ever, Jesse

[Goat]

Isn't that a bit off-topic? The discovery of Noah's Ark is an archaeological matter, and not necessarily theological issue like what you're bringing up.

No, it is a religious one. You see, the only reason people go looking for the ark is a religious one, and the only way people misinterpret data is false hope.

It appears that a number of these folks are taking advantage of the unrealistic hope of believers and scamming them.

In this case I will go by evidence, and that can be found with either religious or non-religious motives just as long as credible methods are still used.

Do you have any verifiable evidence that this recent Noah's Ark discovery claim is a scam? Logically and objectively, I take a neutral stance, although emotionally I'm more optimistic but I'll change that if I can be offered any real evidence either way and more than just hearsay.

http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2 ... ble-update

[Angel]

The site that you linked to is a blog site which is hardly a reputable source to credit or discredit any claim. The author of the blog claims to have a copy of an email from a student (the name is not given) that the latest claims of discovering Noah's ark are fake.

Who is this student? How do I know that he really received this email as opposed to making the email up? Where is the original email or why is this not published on any credible news media source rather than on blogs?

Well, why didn't you check? Seriously, why not? It's not a tough exercise. More, where is your skepticism on the other side? What about the equivalent questions you should be asking about this Chinese expedition? Who are they and where do they get their money? (They're not academics; they run a Noah's ark theme park in Hong Kong.)

I did check although it is your claim. The student's name is not published nor is the original email. Besides that the email states it is someone's "opinion". The rest of your questions are good although amatuers can discover significant things even out of sheer luck like the goat herders who discovered the Dea Sea Scrolls. What it boils down to me is not WHO, or WHY something is discovered but rather what the EVIDENCE says and I want independent verification. I've said this from my last statement and that should apply to whatever side of the issue.

Christians have a reputation for being gulled in by these things. You have to know every skeptic on the block reacts to these annual announcements with hardly suppressed glee. We think, rightly or wrongly, that yet another demonstration of Christians being led astray by their faith reflects on your entire epistemology. If you'd believe this, you'd believe ... well, anything. And conversely, we think the fact you already swallow incredible claims in the name of your is what sets you up for this kind of embarrassment.

The best part of this kind of story for skeptics is the moral freedom we have to scoff. It's not like we pulled some kind of gotcha on you. You do this to yourselves. All we have to do is watch the show unfold, and cook up another batch of popcorn.

I'm a Christian and I would hope that you could qualify future stereotypes with the word "some" rather than talking about all Christians as thinking alike on this matter. I haven't said anywhere in this thread where I believe that this is Noah's ark. From my experience I've found that some atheists and Christians can be bias, each towards their respective side which is one factor to my being an agnostic, but that's another story.

I'm willing to start simple even though I'll readily say I'm optimistic but that doesn't mean my reason and sensibility goes out the window. If the latest claims of Noah's Ark are valid, we at least have a boat-like structure stuck 13,000 feet up a mountain. I'd want to know who, what, where, when, and how. And you nor anyone else are in any position to answer unless there is some REAL independent source verification. The alleged email on that site doesn't help much in convincing me for or against any position.

Where did you get the impression this was a boat-like structure? It's a few pieces of wood in a cave. A cave whose location they won't disclose. Wood that they're claiming has been dated in a lab they won't disclose.

I assume that from the title that mentions Noah's Ark but I guess even if it was that doesn't mean it's still intact as an ark/boat like shape.

Now, as you seem content to allow others to take care of the questions, Dr. Price has confirmed the email was genuine elsewhere.

I'll quote from the article....

Unfortunately, this document was posted on the web without his authori-zation and has been widely quoted by various news sources to the effect that Dr. Price asserts the structure is a hoax perpetrated by the Kurdish guide and his partners to extort money from the Chinese evangelical Christians.

While Dr. Price does not retract his statements, he wants the public to understand that these only represent his opinion as informed by his experience with the Kurdish guide and the Chinese and other sources in eastern Turkey. However, Dr. Price is currently working with his sources in eastern Turkey to obtain such documentation.

When you read the entire article from that website, it appears that part of Dr. Price's doubt is based on "hearsay" and no real verification of that hearsay. The guy is not even sure himself since it's his "opinion". Towards the end of the article he mentions that he wants samples from the site tested by other scientists and scholars.

News of the hoaxing is showing up everywhere.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-I ... -in-Turkey

Price declined to elaborate. However, a leaked email from Price " which he confirms that he wrote " shows that he has reason to believe that a group of local Kurdish men trucked wood up to the mountain and staged an elaborate hoax for the Chinese team.

Everywhere but the credible sources? I've seen the email published in "blogs" but again I don't go by blogs. Also, as posted on one of Randall Price's website, he asserts that it's his opinion that the recent Noah's Ark discovery claim is a hoax.

http://robertcargill.com/2010/04/28/no- ... noahs-ark/]by competent archaeologistsThe group making the claim has been torn apart by competent archaeologists engaged in an attempt to take back the credibility these "ark-eologists" have stolen from their field.

It's a hoax.

The hoax I'm looking for, if any hoax exists, is that that comes from independent verification of the testing of whatever samples that this team submits. The credibility of this group from whatever past dealings is a factor to consider, but the only thing to show for a "hoax" or a "confirmed Noah's ark" in this case is analysis of the site and samples from the site itself. I've yet to see that. All I've seen is excerpts from an email from one archaeologist who was on one of the expeditions stating his opinion.

But we knew that going in, because, after all, all of the other evidence there was no global flood to lift a boat up there remains. A few sticks of wood in a cave don't change that. These other data are not erased; they must be accounted for.

As ever, Jesse

I don't know about a global flood being relevant here because all it would take is a massive flood for that region alone. I haven't seen or read about any evidence for a flood in that region during any time period of NOah. However, if there is a large structure that fits what would be Noah's ark or whatever boat-like structure, then we need to weigh BOTH evidence even if they appear contradictory.

I can personally tell you I won't jump to any conclusions. I have my own biases but it's not because it's a Christian-thing because I've met unreasonable skeptics who are gullible to believe any claims of evidence that go against Christianity and the paranormal.

[Goat]

The site that you linked to is a blog site which is hardly a reputable source to credit or discredit any claim. The author of the blog claims to have a copy of an email from a student (the name is not given) that the latest claims of discovering Noah's ark are fake.

If you bothered to follow the link to Randall Prices web site, he admits that is his email, and that is the truth to the best of his knowledge.

Considering all the fraud that had gone on before, do you have anything more than wishful thinking? How about access to the actual 'c14' dating, and all that wonderful stuff needed for good science?