Fair to Challenge Claims?

[JoeyKnothead]

In another thread there is much complaining about atheists challenging theist claims. I find it a bit weird, what with this being a debate site and all, but there we go.

For debate:

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims on this, a debate site?

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims outside of debate?

What are the real and possible ramifications of challenging theist claims?

What are the real and possible ramifications of allowing theist claims to go unchallenged?

[justifyothers]

In another thread there is much complaining about atheists challenging theist claims. I find it a bit weird, what with this being a debate site and all, but there we go.

For debate:

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims on this, a debate site?

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims outside of debate?

What are the real and possible ramifications of challenging theist claims?

What are the real and possible ramifications of allowing theist claims to go unchallenged?

Hi Joey

Not only is it fair, but expected. I just feel that you are often disappointed in the replies, as they lack the 'meat' you are looking for.....

Some ramifications may be that certain theists may question themselves, which in some cases is a good good thing.

[ChaosBorders]

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims on this, a debate site?

So long as the challenges are made in accordance with the rules it is not only fair, it is generally necessary to have an actual debate. Wouldn't be much of a debate if people were just saying "I believe this!" and everyone went "Well...ok then."

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims outside of debate?

Probably depends on the context. If someone was trying to use theistic claims as a basis for academics or public policy or some such then it seems fair to challenge that basis. Walking into a church and going "I challenge you to show God exists!" would probably not be a very appropriate action.

What are the real and possible ramifications of challenging theist claims?

Could cause people to question their faith, which may have possible negative or positive effects depending entirely on the person and the role their faith plays in their life.

May also make the person defensive and become even more entrenched in their faith. Defensive faith has a tendency to be more negative in nature in my personal experience.

What are the real and possible ramifications of allowing theist claims to go unchallenged?

Could cause people not to question their faith as much, which may have possible negative or positive effects depending entirely on the person and the role their faith plays in their life.

[Flail]

There must be opposing viewpoints for any real debate to occur. I don't understand why anyone who wasn't prepared to debate opposing viewpoints about Religion and Christianity would bother with this website. During any debate wherein a proponent makes an absolute truth claim they should expect challenges to demonstrate the absolute truth of their claim by verifiable evidence.
IMO,indoctrinated beliefs parading as truth claims would be frustrating for anyone to debate in light of their total lack of verifiable evidence.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 2:

Not only is it fair, but expected. I just feel that you are often disappointed in the replies, as they lack the 'meat' you are looking for.....

LOL

I agree my perspective is not binding on others and that I'd do well to better understand that point. Not being a fat brainer like y'all sure does hamper my understanding.

Some ramifications may be that certain theists may question themselves, which in some cases is a good good thing.

Agreed.

Hope all is well in the land of you.
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From Post 3:

Well said Chaosborders, and I agree. You are what I consider a 'rational' theist, not prone to dogmatism, and I certainly 'preciate your perspective.
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From Post 4:

There must be opposing viewpoints for any real debate to occur. I don't understand why anyone who wasn't prepared to debate opposing viewpoints about Religion and Christianity would bother with this website.

In trying to understand the need for alternate views, I can read this a multiple of ways. My 'problem' is I can't support my position very well - what with trying to be honest and all, not to mention being a rather dim bulb - and so can't always offer alternatives.

IMO,indoctrinated beliefs parading as truth claims would be frustrating for anyone to debate in light of their total lack of verifiable evidence.

Pretty much my whole intent in going after the most absurd and obviously unsupportable claims is to show the claimant has not properly examined their position. Y'all with the fat brains get to argue the good stuff, I have to go after the low hanging fruit

[Jester]

My two-cents:

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims on this, a debate site?

Absolutely. Though I'd add an amendment:
I'm not sure about "fair", but it seems to me to be very poor debating to challenge a claim without providing an alternative claim. This is not to say that all atheists do this, but it is common enough that it is worth mentioning.
A failure, or even unwillingness, to provide such a claim, coupled (as they often are) with the implication that this advances us toward any conclusion, has frustrated me for years.

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims outside of debate?

I suppose it would depend on the context of the situation. Rules of courtesy should apply to both parties, I think.

What are the real and possible ramifications of challenging theist claims?

What are the real and possible ramifications of allowing theist claims to go unchallenged?

I can't say that I know, though I personally feel that it is much better to challenge when appropriate than not.
In general, my feelings are that these questions are moot. Challenges are going to happen, and it seems more productive to think about how best to make and respond to those challenges than make vein attempts at stopping them.

[naz]

In another thread there is much complaining about atheists challenging theist claims. I find it a bit weird, what with this being a debate site and all, but there we go.

For debate:

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims on this, a debate site?

Is it fair for atheists to challenge theist claims outside of debate?

What are the real and possible ramifications of challenging theist claims?

What are the real and possible ramifications of allowing theist claims to go unchallenged?

If you question or challenge things just to judge people then place your judgments on the table along with your challenges. So debaters can depict your view points. I would like to have a good debate with a atheist but it is hard when they only want to put 1 foot in the arena.

[Crazy Ivan]

I'm not sure about "fair", but it seems to me to be very poor debating to challenge a claim without providing an alternative claim. This is not to say that all atheists do this, but it is common enough that it is worth mentioning.

I see you keep expecting atheists to provide "alternatives" to problems created by theists in the first place. This forum's primary goal is to debate theistic claims. These claims address questions or problems that the atheist is not required to acknowledge as independent from theological thought, thus "alternative" answers to the problems they create should not be expected, and certainly not regarded as "poor debating". Consider that if an atheist provides "alternatives" to theistic claims, he/she is no longer arguing from an atheist perspective, but from a theist one, which in my opinion makes your request rather nonsensical.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 7:

if you question or challenge things just to judge people then place your judgments on the table along with your challenges.

I put my challenges on your "table of judgemet" and you keep shoving them under the napkins.

How might I judge folks' claims if I can't tell those claims are truth?

So debaters can depict your view points.

How the heck can we ever debate when you keep complaining about the unfairness of it all?

My "viewpoint" is that some theists like to carry on about how their beliefs oughta be accepted on "faith", but they absolutely refuse to support their own claims.

I would like to have a good debate with a atheist but it is hard when they only want to put 1 foot in the arena

I would think a "good" debate would start of right there with folks supporting their claims. I'm funny that way.

[naz]

From Post 7:

if you question or challenge things just to judge people then place your judgments on the table along with your challenges.

I put my challenges on your "table of judgemet" and you keep shoving them under the napkins.

How might I judge folks' claims if I can't tell those claims are truth?

So debaters can depict your view points.

How the heck can we ever debate when you keep complaining about the unfairness of it all?

My "viewpoint" is that some theists like to carry on about how their beliefs oughta be accepted on "faith", but they absolutely refuse to support their own claims.

Trust me, I don't cry foul, or complain or cry or throw a tantrum... so don't take it the wrong way please.
Theist are not suppose to force their beliefs onto anyone, atleast those who are christian are not suppose to. However when you ask a "question" in the form a challenge, and get a response, don't look at it as someone trying to force their beliefs on you because you asked for a explanation and expect to debate.