Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization?

[Imaginos]

Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization and create the Dark Ages?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/dark-age.htm

I personally think it did.
In the Roman Empire prior Christianity there was a general freedom of religion and ideas.

That all changed after the Roman Empire became Christian, as Christians resolved to force Christianity on everyone.

Civilization or at least Europe went backwards as the intolerance of Christianity destroyed the architecure, the literature and much of the knowledge of Ancient Rome and Greece.

[East of Eden]

Its hardly surprising that early Christians were hated with good reason.
They were completely intolerant to other beliefs and wanted to destroy values deeply held by the classical world like freedom of religious faith, freedom of speech and freedom of knowledge.

If the Romans had freedom of religious faith, then why this?

"Suetonius mentions in passing that during the reign of Nero "punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition" (superstitionis novae ac maleficae).[37] He gives no reason for the punishment. Tacitus reports that after the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64, some among the population held Nero responsible and that the emperor attempted to deflect blame onto the Christians.[38]
One of the earliest persecutions occurred in Gaul at Lyon in 177. Persecution was often local and sporadic, and some Christians welcomed martyrdom as a testament of faith.[39] The Decian persecution (246–251) was a serious threat to the Church, but while it potentially undermined the religious hierarchy in urban centers, ultimately it served to strengthen Christian defiance.[40] Diocletian undertook what was to be the most severe and last major persecution of Christians, lasting from 303 to 311."

Wikipedia

[East of Eden]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Christianity did nothing to improve these things.
Slavery and Gladiator fights contined as they always had done in the Roman Empire under the Christian Emperors.

John Chrysostom said "The slave should be resigned to his lot, in obeying his master he is obeying God"

What would you like him to do, organize a Spartacus-like slave revolt? Christianity moderated the treatment of slaves, for example, a law was passed in AD 319 that made it illegal to kill slaves. Owners of slaves were also forced to stop branding their slaves on the face and instead had to put their mark on the hands and legs. Timothy in the New Testament condemned slave trading.

I have already demonstrated early Christian opposition to infanticide.

On the end of the gladiatorial system, from Wikipedia:

"In the early 3rd century, the Christian writer Tertullian had acknowledged their power over the Christian flock, and was compelled to be blunt: the combats were murder, their witnessing spiritually and morally harmful and the gladiator an instrument of pagan human sacrifice.[48] In the next century, Augustine deplored the youthful fascination of his friend (and later fellow-convert and Bishop) Alypius, with the munera spectacle as inimical to a Christian life and salvation.[49] Amphitheatres continued to host the spectacular administration of Imperial justice: in 315 Constantine I condemned child-snatchers ad bestias in the arena. Ten years later, he banned the gladiator munera:
In times in which peace and peace relating to domestic affairs prevail bloody demonstrations displease us. Therefore, we order that there may be no more gladiator combats. Those who were condemned to become gladiators for their crimes are to work from now on in the mines. Thus they pay for their crimes without having to pour their blood."


As for women, this is how they were treated in the classical world:

"In classical Greece, girls got no education. When a man brought guests home for dinner, the lady of the house was not allowed to eat with them. Adult women were considered little better than domestic animals or trash. Correspondingly, sodomy was rampant. In Aristophanes you will read that women are “the vilest of creatures.� Female infanticide was routine.

Emperor Tiberius ordered nude women to wait on him while he gorged. Female prostitutes entertained him with group sex. Emperor Caligula committed incest with all his sisters and engaged in sex while he gluttonized. Emperor Domitian was another who specialized in incest. In Roman law, adultery was a crime that only a woman could commit. Marital faithfulness in the Roman Empire was almost unknown. Historian Will Durant is one easily accessible source for all this. In Old Rome, a husband could divorce his wife, kill her or sell her. He could even kill his married daughter." From an article by Alan Stang

Any women here want to sign up for that? It appears that only Christianity separates us from a world like that, where might makes right. See how women are treated in Islam. Sharia Law is gender apartheid.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization and create the Dark Ages?

If there's blame to be had, I'd say it was humans and be done with it.

Societies are far too complex to say any one deal meant the downfall of it all.

[McCulloch]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Interesting claim. Can you show that Early Christians (before 325) opposed these practices? Was there opposition for their own group (that is making it wrong for Christians to do these things) or were they opposed to society and government allowing or encouraging these things. Second, third and early fourth century sources, Christian and non-christian would be best. Although, reputable modern historians of that period would be acceptable.

Why the arbitrary pre-325 date?

The claim made by East of Eden was that Early Christians took a particular position.

Early Christianity is generally considered as Christianity before 325.

If East of Eden can find another generally accepted date to represent Early Christianity, then please do so. However, I cannot think that Martin Luther King fits anyone's definition of Early Christianity, does he?

[East of Eden]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Interesting claim. Can you show that Early Christians (before 325) opposed these practices? Was there opposition for their own group (that is making it wrong for Christians to do these things) or were they opposed to society and government allowing or encouraging these things. Second, third and early fourth century sources, Christian and non-christian would be best. Although, reputable modern historians of that period would be acceptable.

Why the arbitrary pre-325 date?

The claim made by East of Eden was that Early Christians took a particular position.

Early Christianity is generally considered as Christianity before 325.

If East of Eden can find another generally accepted date to represent Early Christianity, then please do so. However, I cannot think that Martin Luther King fits anyone's definition of Early Christianity, does he?

See post 7.

Here is a good article on how Christianity ended a number of Roman depravities:

http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar53.htm

[Mithrae]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Interesting claim. Can you show that Early Christians (before 325) opposed these practices? Was there opposition for their own group (that is making it wrong for Christians to do these things) or were they opposed to society and government allowing or encouraging these things. Second, third and early fourth century sources, Christian and non-christian would be best. Although, reputable modern historians of that period would be acceptable.

However, I cannot think that Martin Luther King fits anyone's definition of Early Christianity, does he?

You appear to have missed a bit:

This is from an article by Christopher Price, "Pagans, Christianity, and Infanticide":
. . . .

"Early Christian documents reveal that there was a clash of cultures as Christianity converted previously pagan Romans and Greeks. Whereas Judaism prohibited infanticide by Jews, Christianity was converting pagans and instructing them that infanticide was immoral and murder. The Didache (90 -110 CE), an instruction manual for Christian converts, commanded "You shall not commit infanticide." Another early Christian document, the Epistle of Barnabas (130 CE), also explicitly condemned infanticide and prohibited its practices as necessary parts of the "way of light." Moreover, by the end of the second century, "Christians were not only proclaiming their rejection of abortion and infanticide, but had begun direct attacks on pagans, and especially pagan religions for sustaining such crimes." Stark, op. cit., page 125. Robin L. Fox also notes this activity: "Christians opposed much in the accepted practice of the pagan world. They vigorously attacked infanticide and the exposure of children." Fox, op. cit., page 350.

Callistus, the Bishop of Rome -- a onetime slave -- in 222 CE strongly voiced his condemnation of infanticide to the pagan public. Justin Martyr's First Apology (250 CE) stated, "We have been taught that it is wicked to expose even newly-born children." Also in the second century, Athengoras, a Christian leader, wrote in his Plea to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius, that "[we do not expose] an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child murder." Another Christian writer, Minucius Felix, wrote to Emperor Claudius, "And I see that you at one time expose your begotten children to wild beasts and to the birds; at another that you crush when strangled with a miserable kind of death. . . . And these things assuredly come down from your gods. For Saturn did not expose his children but devoured them.""

Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization and create the Dark Ages?

I don't know, though Goat and McCulloch's answers seem knowledgeable enough.

Curiously though, I suspect there's quite a few Christians who would agree with you: Daniel 2 suggests that a third great kingdom after the Persian empire - one which would later be divided into strong and weak parts - would see the rise of a kingdom of God which would shatter and consume those former powers and last forever.

[Goat]

Its hardly surprising that early Christians were hated with good reason.
They were completely intolerant to other beliefs and wanted to destroy values deeply held by the classical world like freedom of religious faith, freedom of speech and freedom of knowledge.

Tex: Are you serious?? Wake up and smell the coffee. If people were so happy with the Roman rule....They would have killed the Apostles before they could have said "boo".

"freedom of speech" in Roman times.....Now you have to tell me where you heard that one?

Now, perhaps the apostles, who were in Jersualum, just weren't a matter of concern for the Roman empire at that time.

[Imaginos]

Its hardly surprising that early Christians were hated with good reason.
They were completely intolerant to other beliefs and wanted to destroy values deeply held by the classical world like freedom of religious faith, freedom of speech and freedom of knowledge.

Tex: Are you serious?? Wake up and smell the coffee. If people were so happy with the Roman rule....They would have killed the Apostles before they could have said "boo".

"freedom of speech" in Roman times.....Now you have to tell me where you heard that one?

Science and Technology prospered in the Roman Empire as the Pagan religions had no agenda of restricting knowledge or forcing people to follow a specific faith.

Theres no doubt that religions like Hellenism were more tolerant than Christianity or Islam, and monotheistic religions pushed humanity backwards.

In the Christian Dark Ages thinking men such as philosopher and scientists who contradicted Christian scripture were burnt at the stake, along with non believers, as Sunday afternoon entertainment

[Imaginos]

If the Romans had freedom of religious faith, then why this?

"Suetonius mentions in passing that during the reign of Nero "punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition" (superstitionis novae ac maleficae).[37] He gives no reason for the punishment. Tacitus reports that after the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64, some among the population held Nero responsible and that the emperor attempted to deflect blame onto the Christians.[38]
One of the earliest persecutions occurred in Gaul at Lyon in 177. Persecution was often local and sporadic, and some Christians welcomed martyrdom as a testament of faith.[39] The Decian persecution (246–251) was a serious threat to the Church, but while it potentially undermined the religious hierarchy in urban centers, ultimately it served to strengthen Christian defiance.[40] Diocletian undertook what was to be the most severe and last major persecution of Christians, lasting from 303 to 311."

Wikipedia

Nero was a tyrant who persecuted and killed many people unjustly, and was loathed by the people of the time. Numerous non Christians were his victims too.
As far we are to believe Christians outside of Rome were completely unaffected.

The persecution under Decius was I think the first real persecution as part of State policy, and there followed similar policy under Valerian. For the most part up until the time of Diocletian it was an irrelevance to those ruling the Empire.

I think that all the persecutions against Christians in the Roman Empire amount to very little compared to the persecution Christians carried out on other religions from 300AD for the next 1500 years.

The Christian Church prospered early on in Diocletian's career, as he carried a policy of religious tolerance. It wasn't until he had been Emperor a long time that he started a policy of making Christianity illegal. I think that he probably had good reason but the persecution got out of hand.

You just have to read some of the Bible and see the verses where it says homosexuals should be stoned to death, people who worship other gods should be killed etc to see why it would be considered dangerous if people came to believe it.
Some of the Christians \at this time were terrorists

Christians tried to assassinate Diocletian by burning down his palace.
During the reign of Julian the Temple of Apollo in Antioch was destroyed by Christian arsonists.

[East of Eden]

If the Romans had freedom of religious faith, then why this?

"Suetonius mentions in passing that during the reign of Nero "punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition" (superstitionis novae ac maleficae).[37] He gives no reason for the punishment. Tacitus reports that after the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64, some among the population held Nero responsible and that the emperor attempted to deflect blame onto the Christians.[38]
One of the earliest persecutions occurred in Gaul at Lyon in 177. Persecution was often local and sporadic, and some Christians welcomed martyrdom as a testament of faith.[39] The Decian persecution (246–251) was a serious threat to the Church, but while it potentially undermined the religious hierarchy in urban centers, ultimately it served to strengthen Christian defiance.[40] Diocletian undertook what was to be the most severe and last major persecution of Christians, lasting from 303 to 311."

Wikipedia

You just have to read some of the Bible and see the verses where it says homosexuals should be stoned to death, people who worship other gods should be killed etc to see why it would be considered dangerous if people came to believe it.

If I were a member of the bronze-age theocracy of Israel you might have a point. Jesus harmed nobody, and when confronted with disbelievers merely sadly walked away. He specifically warned against such purges in the parable of the wheat and the tares. You don't judge a philosophy by it's misuse.