Misconceptions about Islam:

[HaLi8993]

There are many misconceptions that exist within the field of Islam one being the topic of women. Unfortunately due to ignorance and lack of knowledge of some people and the ever growing propaganda and Islamaphobia that exist today, including the ever growing media agenda’s that govern the way people think and act, women are deemed as being unequal to men in Islam.

We are all aware that women and men are not alike so I don’t understand when someone makes the statement that Islam should practice equality, what do you mean by equality??? This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when it is attributed to the religion to Islam. One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality�. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, people start to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same. We are all aware that the Male is not like the female.

God says in the Quran:

“And the male is not like the female�[Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:36] The male is different from the female in many ways, in his strength, in his body, in his toughness and roughness, whereas women are soft and gentle. Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally.

In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from God and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant people see it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it? He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly refuses to accept reality.

But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of God. “Should not He who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All Aware (of everything)� [Quran al-Mulk 67:14 ]

[HaLi8993]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "I said that Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians have ALL done bad things. 

But that discussion really belongs in a different thread.

ANSWER: Yes, I'm missing the point?, why are you concentrating on Muslims if this is the case.

[A Troubled Man]

ANSWER: Yes it was taken from that site, with ample evidence. I'm very sorry I know I should have cited the page, but my stance still remains, if you cannot prove this evidence wrong then we have nothing to stand on. 

Since you don't know much about evolution, you would be lying if you claimed that site had "ample evidence" to support their claims, just as they are lying about evolution. However, I understand why you would post an Islamic propaganda site as your source.

For example, this is an outright blatant bold faced lie...

"As you have seen, the fossil record shows that living things did not follow a progression from the primitive to the more developed, as the theory of evolution would have us believe. Rather, living things emerged suddenly and in the most perfect state. This, in turn, constitutes proof that life came into being not by random natural processes, but by conscious Creation."

[A Troubled Man]

ANSWER: I would appreciate it if you could prove this.

A number of us have already done so on this thread alone. Yes, I know you reject them.

ANSWER: Yes, that is why we implement the laws of God, every persons reason and rational would be different how would you reconcile between the differences??

LOL! There are no differences when it comes to doing harm to others, it is a unanimous decision. Your gods laws are barbaric and do harm to others, hence they should be rejected.

ANSWER: What I'm saying is that society has no problem with allowing such a thing, and encouraging this and hiding behind the face of "equality" for there own advantages in order to boost the economy and forcing are promoting women into such oppressive jobs like there is nothing wrong with it.

LOL! You really should try to use a dictionary sometimes and look up the word oppressive.

ANSWER: So equality is fantasy??

There is no equality there.

ANSWER: So I guess you see nothing oppressive about a society that dictates how you should behave and what you should wear.

That would be the Islamic society that would demand those things.

QUOTE: "Women are as effective leaders as men, that is a fact of reality"

ANSWER: Not in government. 

That is another lie. Women are effective leaders in anything they do.

ANSWER: If they feel there is no option for them, or they are forced by someone or society.

That is nonsense. Islam forces women, societies don't.

ANSWER:  Lol, what do you mean it is irrelevant, is this equality?? why doesn't the man get a gift at the same face value as women?? I guess cause it would be oppressive for the woman to work to be able to afford it right lol, isn't it you that said equality should be applied in every situation considering you believe that men and women are equal (the same). Then according to this understanding why doesn't the man get the same?

What do gift have to do with anything? That is nonsense.

ANSWER: lol, no need for slander just trying to make a point, I don't intend any harm by anything I say. Reality is clear to those who want to see it.

Yes, you do great harm by the things you say, like all other Islamic propagandists.

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Yes, we understand that is what you believe. But this forum is to discuss whether your beliefs are correct, and to debate whether or not they are. It turns out that you are wrong, if anything, religious people are more likely to violate boundaries of decency. For example, you don't see atheists strapping on explosive vests and walking into marketplaces full of Muslims; only Muslims do that"

ANSWER: If indeed I am wrong then it's is up to you to prove to me that Muslims that are practicing true Islam are violated such boundaries. And to prove to me that this is part of Islam. 

We have already established that there is no such thing as True Islam, and that people-who-call-themselves-Muslim lie a lot. I have no idea what True Islam is or whether they practice it. What I do know is that they call themselves Muslim, attempt to practice what they think is Islam to the best of their abilities, and as a direct result, commit atrocities, while atheists go about their business peacefully, being killed by Muslims merely for expressing their opinions.

For example, do you see Muslim clerics hiring bodyguards to protect themselves from being shot by atheists? No. While Ayaan Ali and Wafa Sultan have to pay for round the clock protection, because they had the courage to criticize Islam.

QUOTE: "The ones they figure out are right"

ANSWER: Well as Muslims we figure that God's law is the best, so why is it a problem with you if we run our countries with these laws??

Because they are bad laws, and cause Muslims to suffer needlessly in poverty, ignorance and violence, especially Muslim women. And I care about Muslim women, because, like me, they are human beings.

QUOTE: "It should be up to the individual woman and her family. If a woman is able to work in construction, and wants to, then she should get to do that. We call that "equality," and is what Islam does not have"

ANSWER: We are not talking about employment opportunities we are talking about oppression, in Islam it is up to her and her family to decide, if the environment is safe. 

Maybe in your mythical True Islam, which does not exist. Meanwhile, in actual Islam, she cannot take any job or even leave her house without her husband's permission.

QUOTE: "Some can, some can't. It's up to the individual"

ANSWER: How many women can lift heavy loads compared to men, very little hence even if there are a few that can majority cannot hence why in Islam the laws are set for the benefit of the majority.

So that's the rationale for the discrimination. It's still wrong.

QUOTE: "I agree, it certainly has its oppressive elements. 

However, it's much better than a 13-year old being forced to marry an old man she has never met and did not choose, being raped by him, and dying in childbirth, or being beaten because she runs away. Now that's what I call oppression"

ANSWER: So why is it that when a Muslim protects herself from such oppression that she is looked down upon for not conforming to the values of a oppressive society?? and again this is cultural not Islam. If you could prove to me from our sources that Islam accepts such things I would agree with you. We are not allowed to force women into marriage, moreover they would need to have reached the age of maturity before they would be able to consummate the marriage. Yes I agree it is oppression something that Islam disallows.

Protects herself in what way? By buying a gun?

QUOTE: "So your assertion is that women leaders do not do as good a job as male leaders? Do you have some evidence to support this assertion? 

ANSWER: Yes this is correct. Positions of leadership and high public office means taking on many responsibilities, many of which require a female to be in gatherings of men and to intermingle with them which is not allowed in Islam due to her own protection and safeguarding her from all evil, hence this job is not suitable for her.

Thank you again for clearing up any misconception we may have had about Islam permitting equality for women.

Obviously, if men are a danger, then it is men whose freedom should be restricted, not women.

Undoubtedly this is proven by reality. People know from experience that only men are fit for leadership, because women by nature are more emotional and more easily swayed by their feelings and compassion. These qualities have been created in women to enable them to carry out their most important duty, which is that of motherhood and nurturing children. Men, on the other hand, are not usually swayed by their emotions as women are. Their way is usually one of logic and deliberation, which form the essence of responsibility and leadership.

Please, do go on with your sexist stereotypes that have no basis in reality, you're doing wonders for clearing up our misconceptions that Islam is not sexist.

With regard to other administrative positions, there is no reason why women should not be appointed to run institutions where they will work with other women and not men, because in this case there are no evidence reservations about their work.

But what I asked you for in not your bigotry, but evidence to support it. Do you have any? Because if you want evidence that women are just as intelligent and capable of men, I have reams.

QUOTE: "And that of every fair-minded person"

ANSWER: A fair minded person would see the difference between religion and criminal acts that have nothing to do with Islam, if they truly tried to learn about Islam without judging it through the acts of others. 

But they have everything to do with Islam, at least, actual Islam as practiced in the real world by people-who-call-themselves-Muslim.

Further, they do so because of actual verses in the qu'ran, actual hadiths, and actual fatwas by actual clerics, all of which I can quote for you if you want to go there.

I understand that you disagree with their interpretation, but then, you're not in charge of Islam, are you? They tell me their actions are Islamic, and I have no way to judge which of you is correct.

If you disagree with them, I recommend that you take it up with them...if you dare.

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Yes, it is. It turns out that the earth is not flat, like a carpet, it's round, like a ball"

ANSWER: Can you provide the reference please so I know what your talking about.

Oh, I thought you were familiar with the qu'ran, o.k.
Quran 15: 19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon Mountains firm and immovable...

Many other verses, which I can cite if you like, assume a flat earth.

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Well, please clarify for me. Does Islam permit slavery? Are Muslims allowed to own other human beings? Thanks."

ANSWER: Yes, what do you mean by own?

You need me to explain what I mean by "own?" Wow. O.K., if I own something, it belongs to me. I can sell it or give it away, as I want. I can leave it in my will to my heirs. It is mine. Does that answer your question?

So, just to be clear, you agree that this is permitted in Islam?

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: " So, in your view, is slavery, meaning owning people like property, right or wrong?" 

ANSWER: Show me how they are oppressive, slavery in Islam does not treat people like property.

 

Please clear up my misconceptions. The more we talk, the more confused I get. 

Slavery MEANS owning a person as property. That is the definition of slavery. When we say slavery, we mean "a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work." [wiki] That is what the word slavery means.

So, using this definition, does Islam allow slavery, or prohibit it? 

Using this definition, in your view, is slavery right or wrong?

ANSWER:  Yes, Islam allows slavery and it is right as for the definition I do not believe this definition fits into the way slavery is in Islam.

I don't understand what you are saying. You seem to be saying that Islam permits slavery, but doesn't allow slavery. This is the definition of slavery. That's what slavery means. If Islam doesn't allow this, then it doesn't allow slavery. As I say, the more we talk, the more confused I become. Please clear this up for me.

Using this definition "a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work," in that sense of the word "slavery," does Islam permit that? Yes or no. Thank you.

Islam affirms that God, created man fully accountable, and enjoined duties upon him, to which reward and punishment are connected on the basis of man’s free will and choice. 

No human being has the right to restrict this freedom or take away that choice unlawfully, whoever dares to do that is a wrongdoer and oppressor.

 So no, Islam does not allow slavery?

Slavery is permitted in Islam, but we should examine the matter with fairness and with the aim of seeking the truth, and we should examine the details of the rulings on slavery in Islam, with regard to the sources and reasons for it, and how to deal with the slave and how his rights and duties are equal to those of the free man, and the ways in which he may earn his freedom, of which there are many in Shariah.

Except that it does?

This is just plain silly. The rights of a slave are not equal to those of a free man. A free man OWNS a slave. The slave is property. The owner can sell the slave or give him as a gift, and the slave has no say in the matter.

Your utter confusion on this simple point, to the point where you are speaking gibberish, is telling us all we need to know, thank you.

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "I said that Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians have ALL done bad things. 

But that discussion really belongs in a different thread.

ANSWER: Yes, I'm missing the point?, why are you concentrating on Muslims if this is the case.

Because that's the subject of this thread.

[Burninglight]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "I said that Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians have ALL done bad things. 

But that discussion really belongs in a different thread.

ANSWER: Yes, I'm missing the point?, why are you concentrating on Muslims if this is the case.

Because that's the subject of this thread.

lol, that was a good response. I would like to add that it is not a misconception that Islam teaches violence and condones it. The misconception is to believe it is a peaceful religion like Most Muslim want us to believe. Most western Muslims have no idea what Islam is about or capable of. These are not my misconceptions. Again, many Muslim have misconceptions of Islam.

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Who are you talking to here? 

I presented a lot of evidence of how miserable life is in Muslim countries. Would you like more? There's pretty much an infinite amount. 

We don't what to know what you see, but why you see it, so we can figure out which of us is right. 

For example, I have shown that most of the world's most miserable, violent, poor and illiterate countries are Muslim. Can you show that I am wrong?"

ANSWER: You haven't presented any information that can relate the practice of Islam to unhappiness, the only thing you have presented is the crimes of others in association to other than religion and unhappiness due to lifestyle as well as cultural practices, you have also failed to prove that Islam allows such crimes.

Well of course not since True Islam does not exist, and the people-who-say-they-are-Muslims are lying.

But what we do know is that there is a strong correlation between saying you're a Muslim and being miserable.

I think I'm making it very clear the way I see it, lol

And why do you think this is the case?? I'm not saying you are wrong but to suggest that this is due to the implementation of Islam is wrong and to suggest that there are no external influences and events (i.e.. war, culture, lack of education, minimal resources, healthcare, economic instability etc..)  that are effecting the situations of Muslims today is ignorance.

Oh no, all of these play into it, no doubt. And of course, wherever we find Islam, we find all of these things. Coincidence?