Misconceptions about Islam:

[HaLi8993]

There are many misconceptions that exist within the field of Islam one being the topic of women. Unfortunately due to ignorance and lack of knowledge of some people and the ever growing propaganda and Islamaphobia that exist today, including the ever growing media agenda’s that govern the way people think and act, women are deemed as being unequal to men in Islam.

We are all aware that women and men are not alike so I don’t understand when someone makes the statement that Islam should practice equality, what do you mean by equality??? This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when it is attributed to the religion to Islam. One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality�. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, people start to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same. We are all aware that the Male is not like the female.

God says in the Quran:

“And the male is not like the female�[Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:36] The male is different from the female in many ways, in his strength, in his body, in his toughness and roughness, whereas women are soft and gentle. Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally.

In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from God and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant people see it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it? He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly refuses to accept reality.

But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of God. “Should not He who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All Aware (of everything)� [Quran al-Mulk 67:14 ]

[A Troubled Man]

ANSWER: It is clear that in the Quran the Sun and Moon follow specific trajectories:

"It is He Who created night and day and the Sun and Moon, each one swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 21:33)"

LOL! No, 'swimming in a sphere' is not a trajectory for stars and moons, that is nonsense. Stars and moons don't swim in spheres.

ANSWER: Is a spinning wheel flat? Lol

It doesn't matter, the quote is referring to the sun and moon, NOT the earth.

[Autodidact]

@ Herictic

QUOTE: "Incorrect. There isnt any verse in the entire Quran that directly state the earth is round. Not one actually states this. The verses that the Quran uses either directly state its flat or you are very ambiguous. You claim the Quran is amazing, yet every time a verse is used to show this, its very murky or says something entirely different. 

ANSWER: Firstly I would like to point out that Arabic is a very complex, artistic and poetical language by nature. A single word can mean a host of meanings. The art and beauty of Arabic comes in how a person constructs and puts together words to form a sentence or paragraph.  The art and creativity in the style and poetry are what determine the strength and beauty of the sentence or poem. That is why the Noble Quran is extremely difficult to understand sometimes, even by the fluent and professional Arabic speakers.

Well, obviously, it was a horrible choice to use to communicate important information to humanity then. If we can't know for sure whether something is round or flat, we certainly can't know whether women are supposed to cover their faces, whether it's good or bad to own other people, or other important messages.

 That is why Muslims always say that the translations of the Noble Quran do it absolutely no justice, because the poetry and complexity of language are completely compromised in the translation.  What the English reader, for instance, is left with when reading the English Noble Quran, is the subject that the Noble Verses are talking about.  But he/she doesn't see the beautiful and complex stylistic and linguistic Divine Miracle that the Arabic text carries in it. 

And so, as an all-powerful being, it would be downright stupid and irresponsible to use this method of communicating with us. Since it would be trivially easy for God to convey the same information to all of us in our native languages, and that would clearly be a much better way to proceed, this is yet one more reason to be sure that the qu'ran is not from God, but again, just one guy's ideas.

If we look at the verse 79:30 The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped�. [Al-Qur’an 79:30]
Here are the translations I get for that verse:

And after that He spread the earth.
And after that, the earth: wide has He spread its expanse,
And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
And, after that, He spread out the earth.
And the earth!- thereafter He stretched it out.
And after that He spread the earth,
and the earth did He prepare for life at a later date.
And the land after that He spread out.
And the earth, after that He flattened it (for life).
etc....

And finally, a lone dissenter, And after that He has spread out the earth in the egg-shape (for habitability). Ali Ãœnal

Somehow, right after science figures something out, suddenly we notice it was in the qu'ran all along. But before science figured it out, no one noticed that was what the qu'ran said all along. Funny, that.

[Autodidact]

@ A Troubled Man 

QUOTE: "The point isn't about how many wife beatings occur, the point is following a holy book with a god who condones and encourages wife beating."

ANSWER: And that's what I'm waiting to see, evidence that Islam condones and encourages wife beating.

You didn't notice that verse that instructs husbands to beat their wives? Did you want me to cite it again?

I know that you want to argue that "beat" does not mean beat, it means something else non-violent, but once we start losing the meanings of words, the discussion becomes nonsensical. I mean, do we really have to argue that "beat" means "beat?"

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "That's what I'm doing. Read back through the thread and see how much evidence I have provided for everything I have said"

ANSWER: Read back and see how much evidence I have provided in return, your evidences are crimes of others not evidence that Islam accepts such things.

Not others, Muslims. You keep saying "others," as though these were Buddhists rioting in the streets. These others are Muslims, practicing Islam to the best of their abilities.

True, they have only an incomprehensible text in a confusing language, as you have explained to us, but surely you would not disagree that they have the right and obligation to do their best to follow it? I realize that you have an unusual and creative interpretation of things, in which beating are non-violent and slavery doesn't mean owning people, but I can't expect the average Muslim to use language in such a unique and creative, not to say confusing, way.

I think that when the qu'ran says slavery, they think it means owning people. When it says beating, they think it means beating. And when it says to kill non-Muslims, they think it says to actually kill them.

QUOTE: "Do you disagree with any of them?"

ANSWER: Your joking right?

Not at all. What part do you take issue with?

QUOTE: "Now I realize that you have a new, innovative interpretaton of Islam, unique to you, that is not followed by most Muslims, and you are certainly entitled to it. You are not entitled to simply declare that it is the one True Islam, and all the other Muslims are wrong. 

I encourage you, however, to tell them that, in hopes it will reduce these kinds of atrocities in future. That is, if you dare. 

ANSWER: Hold on a minute you said there was fatwas against them, who were you referring to? Were you not talking about the innocent Belgians that were killed?

No, what I said was, the imams did not issue fatwas calling on Muslim to stop rioting, stop burning down buildings, stop beating up innocent people. Instead, they issued fatwas directing them to pursue jihad against the infidels.

So you want me to agree that the crimes that you mentioned previously is true Islam and they are right?? I am not telling them they are wrong, God is.

I'm sure neither you nor I can know what this fantasy "True Islam" is. I have no interest in fantasies. What I'm talking about is actual Islam as actually practiced by actual Muslims. That's the Islam that rioted, burned down buildings, and slaughtered innocent Europeans.

QUOTE: "Do you honestly think this "But Mommy, Johnnie does it toooo..." argument is effective? I find it one of the most infantile "arguments" that Muslims use. Wrong is wrong, Johnnie, no matter how many other children do it"

ANSWER: Who is saying they are right the Quran or the Sunnah?? Islam does not accept the killing of innocent people.

The question is, what is an "innocent person" in a religion that commands its followers to kill people for what they believe or don't believe.

QUOTE: "OK, are you ready to start discussing history then? I think you'll find it an almost unending saga of conquest and slavery"

ANSWER: Yes, ready

Well, would you please first answer my simple question about slavery?

QUOTE: "I'm saying that I can go out my front door wearing whatever I please, and I will not suffer any consequence for doing so. That is because I do not live in a Muslim country, where I would not have that freedom. Do you disagree?"

ANSWER: Exactly and you choose to do so, hence if people are not happy with the laws of a country they are not obliged to stay and conform to those rulings. 

No, they are not, and that is one of the many reason that Muslims are fleeing those countries by the millions.

Of course, in those same countries, women are not even free to leave their own front doors without the consent of their male minders, so your statement is a flat out lie, as you know.

QUOTE: " Oh, I see, the dress. Well, it's true, Islam oppresses both sexes, but being a patriarchal, sexist religion, of course women always get the worst of it"

ANSWER: You seem to think Muslim women have a problem dressing like this, a true Muslim that understands and submits herself to the will of God, loves covering up, loves obeying her Lord and loves dressing like this, just as people in the West have no problem with dressing in bikinis at the beach and going sun baking, Muslims have no problem being covered, so why do you have a problem with this??

And what if a Muslim woman would prefer not to have to put a tent on over her clothes every time she wants to leave her house? Should she not be free to do so?

QUOTE: "And why exactly are women not as suitable for these positions? 
Maybe you should ask the CEOs of IBM, PepsiCo, WellPoint, Kraft Foods, and many more...all of them women. Needless to say none of them are Muslim."

ANSWER: We are talking about a women being the ruler of a country, not being a successful business women something Islam is not opposed to if it is done in an Islamic way.

So now you're saying that women can be a CEO, but not a prime minister? Why not?

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "What question? I can't believe how evasive you are. It's downright rude, and makes it obvious that you don't want to deal with this issue"

ANSWER: Are the prisoners of war in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay owned??

Your evasion is noted.

Wrong is wrong, no matter how many other children do it, Johnnie.

QUOTE: "Changing the topic?! That's a good one. This is the same simple question I've been asking for 5 pages, and yes, you have answered it, giving contradictory and confusing answers. So, just to clear up any confusion, yes or not, is slavery Islamic?"

ANSWER: Slavery according to the Islamic understanding is permissible.

And is the Islamic understanding the definition that I have now provided three times? Does it involve one person owning another as property?

[Autodidact]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Look at your answers. I asked you twice. The first time you said yes, the second time you said no. Any wonder why I'm confused? 

Is it slavery under the definition from wiki that I provided, where one person owns another, can sell that person or give him away, and can make him work?"

ANSWER: They both say yes, answer my question above first. Are the prisoners of war in Afghanistan not owned? Can they not be given to other countries or sent to other detention centers and can they not do as they please with them and make them work??

Not interested in discussing the prisoners in Afghanistan, thanks. Start a thread if you are. We are talking about Islam.

QUOTE: "The slavery I am thinking of is the definition of the word "slavery." If we can't use the common definitions of words, the conversation becomes nonsensical. 

I am not asking you about the details, rules, or conditions of Islamic slavery. I am asking you a simple yes or no question, which you are going to great lengths to avoid. That of course is more telling than if you had answered it. Using the common definition of the word "slavery," in which one person owns another as property, does Islam allow that?"

ANSWER: Yes they are considered as owned, I wouldn't consider it like treating them like property. Islam obliges the treatment of people like people not like objects.

Now you're trying to say that you can own something without it being your property? Seriously? The word "own" means : to have or hold as property. (Merriam Webster) Your attempts to make nonsense of commonly understood words cannot change reality.

You seem to think that slaves in Islam are mere possessions having no rights whatsoever. Which is the definition you are referring too, Islam doesn't view them as such.

Islam doesn't view slaves as property?

The Lawgiver enjoined and encouraged the freeing of slaves, and opened many doors to it. 

The Prophet (peace be upon him) himself took Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them.

Muhammad owned slaves. He captured, bought, sold and owned slaves. btw, capturing, buying, selling and owning slaves is immoral and wrong.

Freeing slaves is nice. Even nicer is not owning them in the first place.

Giving back some of the money you steal is nice. Even nicer is not stealing it in the first place.

QUOTE: "You are right. As long as they are restrained by secular laws, many Muslims are able to live lawfully. 

Yes, you are right, and we have a name for those conditions they live in. We call them "Islam." If I lived in them, I'd migrate too."

ANSWER: Just because they live under secular laws does not mean that laws cannot be broken as they are elsewhere in the world, so that means according to your understanding that crimes committed by Muslims are not only bound to Islamic countries but every where in the world, you said "wherever you find Muslims you find this" (crimes).

If so, please allow me to retract and apologize. Wherever you find Muslims living in Muslim countries under Muslim laws you find this. Where Muslims live in secular countries and abide by their laws, you find it less.

Its called the conditions of war. 

Which follows wherever Islam is found.

[hERICtic]

ANSWER: Is a spinning wheel flat? Lol

It doesn't matter, the quote is referring to the sun and moon, NOT the earth.

A spinning wheel is flat. As I stated earlier, nowhere in the entire Quran does it mention a moving or round earth. In fact, if you picture a table as the earth and the sun chasing the moon (as the Quran states) you get an orbit and a flat earth.

[hERICtic]

There isnt anything miraculous about the Quran at all. The "miracles" are how Muslims try to give the Quran validity. In fact, the so called miracles are either:

1) Already known by the time of Mohammed
2) A vague, amibigous verse
3) One or two verses with an obvious, simple solution twisted over and over to say something else.

Case in point. I have had years ago, a few debates with Muslims. This is a very popular "miracle". One that has been claimed numerous times that no one could have possibly known about, unless Allah passed along this information.

[025:053] It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

Hal, can you please explain what this verse is refering to? I'm assuming you are familiar with it, as it is one of the more popular amazing find. Thanks.

Thanks.

[Goat]

@ Autodidact

QUOTE: "Yes, it is, and that is why, to an uneducated Arab tribesman of the 6th century, it looks flat, like a carpet. But to an educated person, who knows science, or to God, if He existed and bothered communicating with us, it doesn't look like a carpet, but like a marble. Since poor Muhammad didn't know this, he described it, wrongly, based on what it looked like to him. And that is one of the many ways we know for sure that the qu'ran is nothing but Muhammad's delusions, hallucinations, dictates and hopes."

ANSWER: The Quran confirmed that the earth is round way before scientists could have known this: God says:

Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests.
Which then of the bounties of thy Lord will you deny?

(The Noble Quran, 55:17-18)

In the verse, Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests, there is sure evidence that the earth is round because two Easts and two Wests can come about only when the earth is round, for when the sun rises over one region it sets in another, and when it sets in one sphere it rises in another. Thus the actuality of two Easts and two Wests can clearly be seen.

Early Muslim Consensus refuted the idea that the earth was flat, God says:

And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak (The Noble Quran, 21:33).  

Ibn Abbas says: A falaka like that of a spinning wheel, furthermore Ibn Taymiyah said the word falak [in the Arabic language] means that which is round.

Well, you know.. the claim that 'the quran know the earth was round before it could be known' is an out right piece of misinformation. The Greeks knew that in 300 bce... it existed as a philosophical question from the 6th century bce, but the astronomers confirmed it in the 3rd century bce. that was a good 600 years before the koran was written.

To claim that.. well.. it totally destroys the credibility of the claimer.

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (Quran: An-Nisaa 34-35)"

ANSWER: Yes, we have already explained the meaning of this verse.