Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logic?

[McCulloch]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

2. The Bible is God's Word*

Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logical deduction?

[PREEST]

More importantly, if the Bible contains foreknowledge that a human writer is incapable of producing alone, there must be a supernatural source or influence providing the information?

That's the brunt of the argument(s):
If the Bible possesses a certain quality (quality X), then it must owe it's origin to a supernatural source.

Right, that is the topic. The bible doesn't contain any aforeknowledge at all. What would you claim as aforeknowledge?

I love these type of nonsensical arguments that christians make about the bible. A certain quality? So it must owe it's origin to a supernatural source? This is absurd. It doesn't have a certain quality. It's just a book. A hatred one at that.

I agree, Jim here claims there is a quality (X) yet does not provide said quality. The Enuma Elish could be considered inspired on these terms since it has a certain quality to it too. When the quality is not explained then that could mean any quality. The bible contains no qualities that can only be explained by a supernatural source.

Atheism has a certian quality, and I can tell you what it is without being ambiguous. Free thought, intellect, reason, discernment, scepticism, questioning the questionable, and a dependency on what can be proven and not what can be wished for with faith. That is a special quality.

[Nickman]

More importantly, if the Bible contains foreknowledge that a human writer is incapable of producing alone, there must be a supernatural source or influence providing the information?

That's the brunt of the argument(s):
If the Bible possesses a certain quality (quality X), then it must owe it's origin to a supernatural source.

Right, that is the topic. The bible doesn't contain any aforeknowledge at all. What would you claim as aforeknowledge?

I love these type of nonsensical arguments that christians make about the bible. A certain quality? So it must owe it's origin to a supernatural source? This is absurd. It doesn't have a certain quality. It's just a book. A hatred one at that.

I agree, Jim here claims there is a quality (X) yet does not provide said quality. The Enuma Elish could be considered inspired on these terms since it has a certain quality to it too. When the quality is not explained then that could mean any quality. The bible contains no qualities that can only be explained by a supernatural source.

Atheism has a certian quality, and I can tell you what it is without being ambiguous. Free thought, intellect, reason, discernment, scepticism, questioning the questionable, and a dependency on what can be proven and not what can be wished for with faith. That is a special quality.

That would be more of a "godly" quality don't you think? I think a deity would want us to question, test, retest, examine, analyze, be skeptical. When we have these qualities and/or mentalities we will never be naive and believe everything at face value. Especially a 3000 year old text that has no bearing on the modern world.

[PREEST]

More importantly, if the Bible contains foreknowledge that a human writer is incapable of producing alone, there must be a supernatural source or influence providing the information?

That's the brunt of the argument(s):
If the Bible possesses a certain quality (quality X), then it must owe it's origin to a supernatural source.

Right, that is the topic. The bible doesn't contain any aforeknowledge at all. What would you claim as aforeknowledge?

I love these type of nonsensical arguments that christians make about the bible. A certain quality? So it must owe it's origin to a supernatural source? This is absurd. It doesn't have a certain quality. It's just a book. A hatred one at that.

I agree, Jim here claims there is a quality (X) yet does not provide said quality. The Enuma Elish could be considered inspired on these terms since it has a certain quality to it too. When the quality is not explained then that could mean any quality. The bible contains no qualities that can only be explained by a supernatural source.

Atheism has a certian quality, and I can tell you what it is without being ambiguous. Free thought, intellect, reason, discernment, scepticism, questioning the questionable, and a dependency on what can be proven and not what can be wished for with faith. That is a special quality.

That would be more of a "godly" quality don't you think? I think a deity would want us to question, test, retest, examine, analyze, be skeptical. When we have these qualities and/or mentalities we will never be naive and believe everything at face value. Especially a 3000 year old text that has no bearing on the modern world.

The christian god would prefer that we are credulous, gullible, thoughtless, non-questioning, ignorant and Naive. Kind of like the way the leaders of North Korea make their people to be.

[1213]

If we look at the bible from your POV then it is most certainly not inspired by god and CAN be said to be written by man. The bible speaks of a flat earth, it has a jealous sky god who sits above the earth on the firmament, it has rules that need no explaination from a deity of any kind and can be made by man. It has no intelligence in it above that of man. It doesn't provide anything that can be attributed to a supernatural being in terms of aforeknowledge.

Have you not studied what science says? According to science, earth is flat and consists of continents that float over molten lava. Or what do you think that Bible means when it speaks about earth? Does earth mean the land in continents or the whole planet earth? In my opinion Bible doesnt claim that planet earth is not round. It is only simple interpretation, made by intelligence of men, and it is quite shaky.

And about intelligence above men maybe that is something that you learn later.

[jimvansage]

That would be more of a "godly" quality don't you think? I think a deity would want us to question, test, retest, examine, analyze, be skeptical. When we have these qualities and/or mentalities we will never be naive and believe everything at face value. Especially a 3000 year old text that has no bearing on the modern world.

There many qualities that could be X - perhaps qualities A, B, & C. Perhaps more.

I will argue for foreknowledge and present evidence of such if you will admit that (as what you have said seems to imply) "If the Bible contains foreknowledge, it owes its origin to a supernatural source"

The quality must be a supernatural or "godly" quality as our friend here puts it.
What he seems to be implying is that "If a document claims to be God's Word and only truth, then that document would encourage people to test and prove what is true and what is not" or "If a document possesses that quality, then it is God's Word"

It's seems irrelevant, but the Bible does not demand blind allegiance without reason.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1 Thess. 5:21)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world (1 John 4:1).

The word logos (rational appeal) and its derivatives appears 330 times in the New Testament; logizomai ("by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer" - Thayer) 41 times.

pathos (emotional appeal; though in Koine Greek it simply means "passion") is only used three times.

[arian]

[T]he Bible is inspired by Gods Holy Spirit, and is revealed to those who walk according to the Spirit.

Thank you for simply asserting that which needs to be demonstrated. Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logical deduction?

I pointed out that the only few divine authorship I know of in the Bible are those few verses and words, the rest is inspired by Gods Holy Spirit. God is not divine, but Holy, and He warns those that go to those who divine for money, palm readers, witches, soothsayers, wizards, for all these open themselves up and become mediums to demonic spirits who divine to them from the supernatural realm things that God did not say, but are lies made to deceive those unaware.

Constantine was influenced by his mediums and created a Gentile religion called Christianity, and they acknowledged the god they worship by defining a three-in-one god and referred to him as a Deity who resides in the supernatural realm. This is Satan, for he was cast out of Heaven and roams the earth as a roaring Lyon, devouring who he may. He influences his loyal followers through divinations, possessions, influence through the power of money and so on.

Eph 6:11-13
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
NKJV

The Bible is clear on turning to mediums who divine lies;

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
KJV

Here are some warnings from calling upon familiar spirits that divine what you wish to hear from the supernatural realm. Satan didnt influence men to write the Bible, God did. Satan only placed a few, but critical words in the New Testament so men would worship him instead of God. If we dont seek earnestly we may be bowing in prayer and singing praises in church to Satan himself, but we are not unaware of his tricks now are we?

Oh how he always wanted the praise that God himself deserves, to be worshipped like the Most High! Unfortunately he is receiving that worship from billions of unaware people who have been blinded by his lies for over seventeen hundred years. Just ask any Christian if they worship the Great I Am, or some divine being in the supernatural realm? They will all reply with a big smile; Our god is Divine, the greatest among the other divine beings out there, who speaks to us from the supernatural realm!

Read carefully the following verses, and pray to the Lord about them. Not to Mother of God, not to Joseph Smith, not to Allah, nor the three-in-one Triune gods, but the Lord. If you dont know who Im talking about, ask me and I will gladly help you to get to know Him;

1 Sam 28:8-9
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
KJV

Prov 16:10-12
10 A divine sentence is in the lips of the king: his mouth transgresseth not in judgment.
11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.
12 It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.
KJV

Ezek 13:9-10
9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
KJV

Ezek 13:23
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.KJV

Ezek 21:29
29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.
KJV

Mic 3:6-7
6 Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.

7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.
KJV

Mic 3:11-12
11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
KJV

God bless you on your search.

[arian]

The christian god would prefer that we are credulous, gullible, thoughtless, non-questioning, ignorant and Naive. Kind of like the way the leaders of North Korea make their people to be.

You are so right, the 'christian god', this Deity who rules mankind from his limited supernatural realm would prefer that we are credulous, gullible, thoughtless, non-questioning, ignorant and Naive. Kind of like the way the leaders of North Korea make their people to be', but NOT the God of the Bible. It is beyond words how important it is to learn to discern the spirits that be!

As you said of the rulers of North Korea who rule over their people with fear, Satan does the same thing, all we have to do is look back to the history of Christianity that ruled the nations with a sword at the peoples throats.

This is NOT Biblical and that is not what Jesus taught.

[Nickman]

If we look at the bible from your POV then it is most certainly not inspired by god and CAN be said to be written by man. The bible speaks of a flat earth, it has a jealous sky god who sits above the earth on the firmament, it has rules that need no explaination from a deity of any kind and can be made by man. It has no intelligence in it above that of man. It doesn't provide anything that can be attributed to a supernatural being in terms of aforeknowledge.

Have you not studied what science says? According to science, earth is flat and consists of continents that float over molten lava. Or what do you think that Bible means when it speaks about earth? Does earth mean the land in continents or the whole planet earth? In my opinion Bible doesnt claim that planet earth is not round. It is only simple interpretation, made by intelligence of men, and it is quite shaky.

And about intelligence above men maybe that is something that you learn later.

Artie and myself showed without doubt that the bible is a flat earth book, but this thread is not about that. If you would like to review the thread it is called, The Flat Earth of the Bible. This thread is not the place for this conversation even though a lot of the points discredit the bible as being divine anything. Please direct your posts there. Review the entire thread first so you dont post something that has already been refuted.

As far as the bible being divinely inspired, it is not. It has nothing that could be considered divine inspiration. Infact the Israelites were more scientifically naive than any of their contemporaries. They also were behind the curve when it came to technological advancements such as their pottery. They believed the cosmology of the time which was the flat earth model.

Nothing in the bible is ahead of its time.

[Nickman]

There many qualities that could be X - perhaps qualities A, B, & C. Perhaps more.

I will argue for foreknowledge and present evidence of such if you will admit that (as what you have said seems to imply) "If the Bible contains foreknowledge, it owes its origin to a supernatural source"

The quality must be a supernatural or "godly" quality as our friend here puts it.
What he seems to be implying is that "If a document claims to be God's Word and only truth, then that document would encourage people to test and prove what is true and what is not" or "If a document possesses that quality, then it is God's Word"

It's seems irrelevant, but the Bible does not demand blind allegiance without reason.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1 Thess. 5:21)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world (1 John 4:1).

The word logos (rational appeal) and its derivatives appears 330 times in the New Testament; logizomai ("by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer" - Thayer) 41 times.

pathos (emotional appeal; though in Koine Greek it simply means "passion") is only used three times.

If the bible did claim something or had quality X that was only able to be explained by a supernaturalcause, then I would have used that argument many years ago as a christian when I used to debate for the christian agenda. If you were to provide something in the bible, which I know like the back of my hand, I would be all ears. So please provide quality X for debate.

The logos has nothing within its meaning that would be considered quality X. Logos is a concept of speaking things and them becoming real. Logos originates in the Greek and Roman ideologies not in Christianity. John is the only one who speaks of the logos and in doing so brings pagan belief into the mix.

[Nickman]

The christian god would prefer that we are credulous, gullible, thoughtless, non-questioning, ignorant and Naive. Kind of like the way the leaders of North Korea make their people to be.

You are so right, the 'christian god', this Deity who rules mankind from his limited supernatural realm would prefer that we are credulous, gullible, thoughtless, non-questioning, ignorant and Naive. Kind of like the way the leaders of North Korea make their people to be', but NOT the God of the Bible. It is beyond words how important it is to learn to discern the spirits that be!

As you said of the rulers of North Korea who rule over their people with fear, Satan does the same thing, all we have to do is look back to the history of Christianity that ruled the nations with a sword at the peoples throats.

This is NOT Biblical and that is not what Jesus taught.

Satan is not an entity. It is a personified concept. The word satawn means adversary and can be applied to anything that hinders. God is a ha-Satawn in the bible at times.

Numbers 22:22,23 "and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him." 23 "behold, I went out to withstand thee,"

1 Samuel 29:4 The Philistines say: "lest he [David] be an adversary against us"

2 Samuel 19:22 David says: "[you sons of Zeruaiah] should this day be adversaries (plural) unto me?"

1 Kings 5:4 Solomon writes to Hiram: "there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.

1 Kings 11:14 "And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite"

1 Kings 11:23 "And God stirred him up an adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah" 25 "And he [Rezon] was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon"

In each of these verses satan is used as a noun. The word adversary is translated from the original word satan or satawn.