Columbia PhD in Ancient History says Jesus never existed

[alwayson]

How do Christians respond to Dr. Richard Carrier?

There are several lectures and debates with him on youtube.

[lmbarre]

To go back further, Israel was enslaved by the Egyptions, and because the God of Abraham, Israelites or Jews were freed. Therefore, inorder for the egyptions to hold its own core of the spiritua nature of God, meaning "RA" they had to pronounce their Gods story.

If you remember on another thread, somehow the Jews and the Christians played an everlasting curse to one another. The fact is, it starts from the time of Moses, how they fought from slavery against the Egyptions.

The core of Christianity goes back to "RA" as God.

Constantine just put it together to establish the history and curses under one faith.
He played the peacemaker sort of speak in this respect.

There is not one ounce of evidence that the Israelites believed in RA. There is not one mention in any Jewish literature that this was their belief. Now EL is all over the place which was the Canaanite deity.

There are plenty of evidence out there that the Israelites started off with believing in RA. For instance, Moses was an Israelite. And he was a King of the Egyptions. He believed in RA before his convert to Judaism. The Jewish literature consists of the hebrew God Yahweh, in definition, it means sole giver. "RA" in definition is also known to be sole giver per say. Israelites were enslaved by the egyptions, and egyptions believed in God RA. Therefore, down the hierarchy, it is common sense the enslaved ones followed the spiritual God of the nation.

It was the Levites, whom I have argued were Egyptian converts to Hebrew Yahwism, who forged a distinctively Egyptian version of Yahwism. As his name indicates, as does his portrayal in every way as being an Egypitan, and the use of the Legend of Sargon to make him into an Egytian, the Mushite name of Yahweh is based upon a demytologization the god Khepera, the god of "becoming" or "transformations."

We have an Egyptian text that reads:

I who came, makes become, what becomes.

The name Khepera is a nominal form of the verb, "to become," and so the play on this word.

The name of the deity given to Moses was:

'ehyeh aser 'ehyeh

This formualtion is almost identical in form and content to the above Egyptian text and so I render it

"I become what I becomes."

Thus, the Yahwism that Moses learned from his Yahwistic, Midianite father-in-Law priest Jethro, was redefined as a demythologized kind of Khepera-ism. Based upon the verb, "to become, which hyh can certainly mean as both" to be" and "to become" in Hebrew, the translation is entirely possible.

That P was not simply a priest, but more specifically a Levitical priest, with an Egyptian descent. P's creation myth found in Genesis 1 has many contacts with Egyptian rather than Semitic thought, in both the Egyptian Hermopolean and Memphite theologies:

Creation by divine fiat is distinctively Egyptian rather than a Semitic theomachy.
Both Ptah and Elohim are noted to be pleased with their work.
The primeval elements of the Egyptian Ogdoad correspond to those in Genesis 1:
formlessness, emptiness, wind, darkness. All correspond to the eight gods of four male and female deities of the Ogdoad.
Elohim. A title that incorporate divine unified plurality of deities, working together in creation. "Let us make . . ."
Elohim is a plural noun used with a singular verb to express a unified but plural pathethen, acting as one.
Elohim may well convey the same notion of the terms used in the Egyptian pantheon like Ogdoad ("eight") and Ennead ("nine"). Thus, the sense of Geneiss 1:1 may well be, "In the beginning (the) Elohim created the heavens and the earth."
The static style of P reflects the relatively static nature of the Egyptian environment over against a dynamic one of Mesopotamian, being reflected in the static quality of P's prose with a favoring of liteary repititin and compositional balance.

P's sophisticated theology is seems quite different from both Judean Yahwism and Israelite Elism, which are relatively quite simple by comparison.
As Abraham was the patriarch of Judean Yahwism, and Jacob the patrirach of Israelite Elism, so Moses is the patriach of the Levites (converted Egyptians to Midianite Yahwism).

LMB

[TheTruth101]

To go back further, Israel was enslaved by the Egyptions, and because the God of Abraham, Israelites or Jews were freed. Therefore, inorder for the egyptions to hold its own core of the spiritua nature of God, meaning "RA" they had to pronounce their Gods story.

If you remember on another thread, somehow the Jews and the Christians played an everlasting curse to one another. The fact is, it starts from the time of Moses, how they fought from slavery against the Egyptions.

The core of Christianity goes back to "RA" as God.

Constantine just put it together to establish the history and curses under one faith.
He played the peacemaker sort of speak in this respect.

There is not one ounce of evidence that the Israelites believed in RA. There is not one mention in any Jewish literature that this was their belief. Now EL is all over the place which was the Canaanite deity.

There are plenty of evidence out there that the Israelites started off with believing in RA. For instance, Moses was an Israelite. And he was a King of the Egyptions. He believed in RA before his convert to Judaism. The Jewish literature consists of the hebrew God Yahweh, in definition, it means sole giver. "RA" in definition is also known to be sole giver per say. Israelites were enslaved by the egyptions, and egyptions believed in God RA. Therefore, down the hierarchy, it is common sense the enslaved ones followed the spiritual God of the nation.

It was the Levites, whom I have argued were Egyptian converts to Hebrew Yahwism, who forged a distinctively Egyptian version of Yahwism. As his name indicates, as does his portrayal in every way as being an Egypitan, and the use of the Legend of Sargon to make him into an Egytian, the Mushite name of Yahweh is based upon a demytologization the god Khepera, the god of "becoming" or "transformations."

We have an Egyptian text that reads:

I who came, makes become, what becomes.

The name Khepera is a nominal form of the verb, "to become," and so the play on this word.

The name of the deity given to Moses was:

'ehyeh aser 'ehyeh

This formualtion is almost identical in form and content to the above Egyptian text and so I render it

"I become what I becomes."

Thus, the Yahwism that Moses learned from his Yahwistic, Midianite father-in-Law priest Jethro, was redefined as a demythologized kind of Khepera-ism. Based upon the verb, "to become, which hyh can certainly mean as both" to be" and "to become" in Hebrew, the translation is entirely possible.

That P was not simply a priest, but more specifically a Levitical priest, with an Egyptian descent. P's creation myth found in Genesis 1 has many contacts with Egyptian rather than Semitic thought, in both the Egyptian Hermopolean and Memphite theologies:

Creation by divine fiat is distinctively Egyptian rather than a Semitic theomachy.
Both Ptah and Elohim are noted to be pleased with their work.
The primeval elements of the Egyptian Ogdoad correspond to those in Genesis 1:
formlessness, emptiness, wind, darkness. All correspond to the eight gods of four male and female deities of the Ogdoad.
Elohim. A title that incorporate divine unified plurality of deities, working together in creation. "Let us make . . ."
Elohim is a plural noun used with a singular verb to express a unified but plural pathethen, acting as one.
Elohim may well convey the same notion of the terms used in the Egyptian pantheon like Ogdoad ("eight") and Ennead ("nine"). Thus, the sense of Geneiss 1:1 may well be, "In the beginning (the) Elohim created the heavens and the earth."
The static style of P reflects the relatively static nature of the Egyptian environment over against a dynamic one of Mesopotamian, being reflected in the static quality of P's prose with a favoring of liteary repititin and compositional balance.

P's sophisticated theology is seems quite different from both Judean Yahwism and Israelite Elism, which are relatively quite simple by comparison.
As Abraham was the patriarch of Judean Yahwism, and Jacob the patrirach of Israelite Elism, so Moses is the patriach of the Levites (converted Egyptians to Midianite Yahwism).

LMB

To add,

Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search For other uses,

"Hayah" redirects here. For the village in Iran, see Hayyeh.
I Am that I Am (�ֶהְיֶה �ֲשֶ�ר �ֶהְיֶה, ʾehyeh ʾašer ʾehyeh [ʔehˈje ʔaˈʃer ʔehˈje]) is a common English translation (JPS among others) of the response God used in the Hebrew Bible when Moses asked for his name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Torah. Hayah means "existed" or "was" in Hebrew; "ehyeh" is the first person singular imperfect form and is usually translated in English Bibles as "I will be" (or "I shall be"), for example, at Exodus 3:12. Ehyeh asher ehyeh literally translates as "I Will Be What I Will Be", with attendant theological and mystical implications in Jewish tradition. However, in most English Bibles, this phrase is rendered as I am that I am."[/i]


So it's agreed from what you said here,

Quote;
"This formualtion is almost identical in form and content to the above Egyptian text and so I render it

"I become what I becomes.""


So it's comforting to know that all is actually under 1 God.



So the Yahwehism actually takes its roots from Egyption God.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Josephus, Paul, and Acts is more than adequate to reasonably infer the historicity (as opposed to the divinity) of Jesus.

[skinker]

I believe fully in the Gospel stories of Jesus Christ as stories about a spiritual being who is appointed to bring the message of God's love to humanity by the prime example of supreme forgiveness of sins taken on by God itself through God's representative on earth, Jesus. I cannot take the Gospel stories as historical record because the Christ described in them is like has been obvious to most intellectuals since the Gospels were written, that they describe a Jewish Messianic version of the ancient sun-god, grain god, dying/resurrection god-man mythology very much in the Mithra/Dionysian/Horus/Osiris traditions. But to me, God uses these mythologies to communicate spiritual knowledge with the aim to evolve human beings into humane beings. And since going through my own three day Road to Damascus religious conversion experience decades ago I am comfortable now with how God is using the Christian Gospel tradition to convey the Messiah/Christ conception to humanity for the last 2000 years.

Before that, the Christ idea was hidden in the Sumerian and Egyptian religions but the Israelites brought it out when they were kicked out of Egypt as part and parcel of the failed Hyksos invasion. This is now confirmed by archeologists comparing Hyksos dwelling floor plans with ancient Israelite ones. Israelites successfully have fooled the world now for some 3500 years with their cover up story of Moses and the Exodus to hide their humiliation and defeat. And that exodus of defeated Israelites took with them many Egyptian religious concepts and rearranged them into Canaanite religious form.

The God of Israel is very much like Amun and amen is a cognate and in every Jewish and Christian prayer. Circumcision, Ten Commandments from the Pyramid Texts, and the Torah, all Egyptian ideas. And Christianity returned Judaism to its Egyptian roots but again heavily disguised with Jesus as Horus and God the Father as Osiris in the Egyptian father-son sun god relationship. Which was actually mandated in the EL as Father to Yahweh as Son original Canaanite Israelite way of worship (see Prof. Margaret Barker's The Great Angel book) until the Sinai Covenant of Judah priests created I AM/YHWH by subsuming EL into his son, Yahweh, the tribal war god of the Israelites with Egyptian (Yah-Yahti) and Canaanite (Yamm into Yahweh) ancestry. As a Christian, I have no use for the man-made YHWH construct of the priests of Judah.

Christianity reestablishes the true spiritual relationship of Father to Son that God has given the world so as to model the way a good human being leads others, the king, the good father, who serves his kingdom and family, as a good God brings blessing to the life of the land and the life of the People made in the image of the good God. It worked well in Egypt making Egyptian civilization holding the world's record for longevity, their worship of the sun god as Father and Son, the Moon as Mother there prominently and brought into Christianity as Mary who was also brought into Judaism as Miriam (Meri-Amun= beloved of Amun, Moses' sister with powers). The Torah too is all Egyptian in origin.

So we have in my personal history of Christianity, a large exile Jewish community in Alexandria, Egypt where the Library of Alexandria exists with the world's largest collection of religious texts around 100-200 A.D. and a story floating through the Jewish community of a renegade Jewish healer named Yeishu or Yeshua who healed people using Egyptian magic and the Name of God. A Sayings of this healer magician Jew is floating around along with Greek ideas of renegade Gnostic Jews mixing Jewish angelogy with Egyptian magic and Iranian dualism and who knows what, and out of this mess comes the Gospels, much better written than any of the Gnostic texts except for the later Gospel of Philip. And with the Gospels a fantastic sun god Story to be sold to the world as real history when it never was.

But still, God conveys the needed Christ information down through the centuries to our times through the Gospels, and now that we are growing up and realizing we have to be weaned from the Bible is true thinking of children, we come to the end of literal belief and the beginning of true spiritual belief that doesn't need blind faith in ancient mythologies to be held by thinking adult believers. But I'm not talking about "progressive Christianity" or mythicist atheism because while the Gospels are not literally true they are packed with spiritual truth that is carrying a most needed by humanity spiritual Model and that is the Messiah-Christ conception that my Celestial Torah Christianity research can trace back over 4000 years. Christianity is no longer Abrahamic tradition bound as I'm convinced some of those Alexandrian Jewish Gnostics also found and embedded in code in the Gospels.

[99percentatheism]

These kinds of threads, as well as "PhD's" like the dude making a name for himself in the OP. shouldn't last more than a pat on the head.

If Jesus didn't exist, from his era, than no one else ever did either, or, earlier than that historically.

[Jayhawker Soule]

These kinds of threads, as well as "PhD's" like the dude making a name for himself in the OP. shouldn't last more than a pat on the head. If Jesus didn't exist, from his era, than no one else ever did either, or, earlier than that historically.

Home schooled?

[Goat]

Josephus, Paul, and Acts is more than adequate to reasonably infer the historicity (as opposed to the divinity) of Jesus.

Josephus appears to have been modified.. and therefore the source is too corrupted to be able to use as evidence.


Paul admits to lies as a method of preaching..


"For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" – St. Paul, Romans 3.7.


And Acts bases a lot of what is said on Paul, and is not a primary, or even secondary source. ..



So, no.. those three sources are not 'good enough' by any means.

[Nickman]

To go back further, Israel was enslaved by the Egyptions, and because the God of Abraham, Israelites or Jews were freed. Therefore, inorder for the egyptions to hold its own core of the spiritua nature of God, meaning "RA" they had to pronounce their Gods story.

If you remember on another thread, somehow the Jews and the Christians played an everlasting curse to one another. The fact is, it starts from the time of Moses, how they fought from slavery against the Egyptions.

The core of Christianity goes back to "RA" as God.

Constantine just put it together to establish the history and curses under one faith.
He played the peacemaker sort of speak in this respect.

There is not one ounce of evidence that the Israelites believed in RA. There is not one mention in any Jewish literature that this was their belief. Now EL is all over the place which was the Canaanite deity.

There are plenty of evidence out there that the Israelites started off with believing in RA. For instance, Moses was an Israelite. And he was a King of the Egyptions. He believed in RA before his convert to Judaism. The Jewish literature consists of the hebrew God Yahweh, in definition, it means sole giver. "RA" in definition is also known to be sole giver per say. Israelites were enslaved by the egyptions, and egyptions believed in God RA. Therefore, down the hierarchy, it is common sense the enslaved ones followed the spiritual God of the nation.

Just because you say so is not evidence. You need to provide some actual archaeological and textual evidence, until then your assertion is taken as false.

[alwayson]

Ehrman's book was riddled with errors, according to Carrier

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1794/


I recommend the blog war between Ehrman and Carrier. Very entertaining!

So anyone check out the blog war between Ehrman and Carrier?

[otseng]

Home schooled?

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