Christian Forums ...Why?

[KCKID]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

[Ooberman]

Can a person not express an honest opinion without being called a moron, a raving lunatic and an idiot?

Yes, unless they are an idiot and express idiotic thoughts.
Tex claims the gays could be normal like the rest of us. Yet, being gay is normal.
He even admits it when he adds that being blind and deaf are normal, too.
He's just rambling because his hatred towards gays.
I call it like i see it.
He admits gay is normal, but then says "maybe they can be normal".
Thats an idiotic statement regardless of the topic.

[AdHoc]

Can a person not express an honest opinion without being called a moron, a raving lunatic and an idiot?

Yes, unless they are an idiot and express idiotic thoughts.
Tex claims the gays could be normal like the rest of us. Yet, being gay is normal.
He even admits it when he adds that being blind and deaf are normal, too.
He's just rambling because his hatred towards gays.
I call it like i see it.
He admits gay is normal, but then says "maybe they can be normal".
Thats an idiotic statement regardless of the topic.

I don't believe for one second that Tex hates homosexual people. Everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as they direct their aggression towards the argument and not the person... Just my opinion.

[Ooberman]

Can a person not express an honest opinion without being called a moron, a raving lunatic and an idiot?

Yes, unless they are an idiot and express idiotic thoughts.
Tex claims the gays could be normal like the rest of us. Yet, being gay is normal.
He even admits it when he adds that being blind and deaf are normal, too.
He's just rambling because his hatred towards gays.
I call it like i see it.
He admits gay is normal, but then says "maybe they can be normal".
Thats an idiotic statement regardless of the topic.

I don't believe for one second that Tex hates homosexual people. Everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as they direct their aggression towards the argument and not the person... Just my opinion.

Only tex knows, but his statement, about gays or not, is irrational.
He doesn't know any more than any one else where a gos intended us to stick our dicks. He just thinks that because penis and vaginas make babies, it must be from a god. That's idiotic.
I can stick my schlong in a tree, or my finger in a caserole, or my foot in a lake. What the hell does the great Tex know about what SHOULD be the case?

[Ooberman]

Let me retype:

Only Tex knows, but his statement, about gays or not, is irrational.
He doesn't know any more than any one else where a god intended us to stick our dicks.
Many people think that because penis ejaculating into a vagina make babies, it must be the Grand Purpose from a god. That's idiotic.
I can stick my schlong in a tree, or my finger in a casserole, or my foot in a lake. Does that mean it must be from God?
What the hell does anyone know about what SHOULD be the case?

Why can't one put their meat pole in a mouth? Or a pillow, or a lubed up hand?
Why can't a woman use a dildo, or a cucumber?

It's idiotic to presume that because reproductive organs reproduce when put together, they can only be used for reproduction. After all, there is something to be said for the pleasure.
Maybe God meant sexual organs for pleasure and is appalled that we use them for reproduction... like the crass animals do? Maybe he thinks we sin when we have sex?

I don't know and neither does Tex. He just uses his ignorance to express his distaste for homosexuality.

Why Tex can say "God intended this and that.." and not someone else is absurd. He's just repeating ancient, ignorant people who felt they had something important to say.

Did you know people have sex with sheep and the sheep don't mind? (Allegedly... I haven't researched it too much).

But why did God make penises fit into sheep vagina's? If I use Tex's reasoning, it's because God intended it!

You can't tell me that's not idiotic.

[AdHoc]

Can a person not express an honest opinion without being called a moron, a raving lunatic and an idiot?

Yes, unless they are an idiot and express idiotic thoughts.
Tex claims the gays could be normal like the rest of us. Yet, being gay is normal.
He even admits it when he adds that being blind and deaf are normal, too.
He's just rambling because his hatred towards gays.
I call it like i see it.
He admits gay is normal, but then says "maybe they can be normal".
Thats an idiotic statement regardless of the topic.

I don't believe for one second that Tex hates homosexual people. Everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as they direct their aggression towards the argument and not the person... Just my opinion.

Only tex knows, but his statement, about gays or not, is irrational.
He doesn't know any more than any one else where a gos intended us to stick our dicks. He just thinks that because penis and vaginas make babies, it must be from a god. That's idiotic.
I can stick my schlong in a tree, or my finger in a caserole, or my foot in a lake. What the hell does the great Tex know about what SHOULD be the case?

Fair enough yes you can stick your body parts in trees and food and stuff but don't be surprised if someone else says thats not healthy behaviour.

[KCKID]

Incidentally, a little while ago I completed a response to post #20 from charles_hamm. I clicked the 'Preview' button and was told that I wasn't logged in. For some reason I'm logged out whenever I leave the site, even though I've asked to be permanently logged in. ANYWAY, I logged in and found that I couldn't return to or retrieve my response to post #20. It was gone. Needless to say, having spent about an hour constructing the post I was somewhat p----d off.

Why is there not a fail-safe device of some sort in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Anyway, charles_hamm, I DID try to respond to your post and, right
now anyway, I don't have the patience to begin again. Maybe later.

Not a problem. I've had the same happen to me.

This forum, technically, by large much better than many I have seen.

Oh, I absolutely agree. It runs circles around the forum that I refer to in my OP. That one - posting-wise - is a shocker!

But this same problem happened to me several times. Now I press Ctrl+A and Ctrl+C every few minutes if I spent more than a couple minutes working on a post.

I hadn't thought to do that but I do every so often save lengthy posts to Microsoft Word before previewing or submitting which, in this particular case, I didn't. But hey, these tips are possibly helping others with their posting 'problems' . . .

[Ooberman]

Can a person not express an honest opinion without being called a moron, a raving lunatic and an idiot?

Yes, unless they are an idiot and express idiotic thoughts.
Tex claims the gays could be normal like the rest of us. Yet, being gay is normal.
He even admits it when he adds that being blind and deaf are normal, too.
He's just rambling because his hatred towards gays.
I call it like i see it.
He admits gay is normal, but then says "maybe they can be normal".
Thats an idiotic statement regardless of the topic.

I don't believe for one second that Tex hates homosexual people. Everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as they direct their aggression towards the argument and not the person... Just my opinion.

Only tex knows, but his statement, about gays or not, is irrational.
He doesn't know any more than any one else where a gos intended us to stick our dicks. He just thinks that because penis and vaginas make babies, it must be from a god. That's idiotic.
I can stick my schlong in a tree, or my finger in a caserole, or my foot in a lake. What the hell does the great Tex know about what SHOULD be the case?

Fair enough yes you can stick your body parts in trees and food and stuff but don't be surprised if someone else says thats not healthy behaviour.

Is being healthy the goal of life now? Is that what God wanted? That may be what some people want, but if you ask the Missionaries who worked to ease the pain of lepers, you might be disappointed.

Maybe they should have put health first, too, right?

Or, every doctor and nurse?


The point is that poeple come on here pretending to know what everything is about because they read it in their Holy Book of choice, forgetting that there are many other views, and that they may be horribly wrong.

Meanwhile, there are people who love other people and they happen to have the same body parts. Tex and others are part of a group - a tradition - that has killed, attacked or denigrated those people and it's shameful.

The age of gay bashing is over. The age of bashing homophobes has begun.

Reap what you sow.

[KCKID]

Overall, there is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is not sinful, as has been discussed.

I think you might agree, however, that EVERYTHING that humans do - other than to worship God - is 'sinful', would you not? The Bible God requires, indeed DEMANDS - perfection in humans that humans cannot possibly attain. Otherwise we would ALL be gods. That said, isn't that WHY Jesus (according to scripture) came to impute HIS righteousness to ALL who 'believe' ...? So, does 'sin' exist at all with those who 'believe', be they gay or straight? While being human we WILL 'naturally' continue to 'sin' (ooo ...THAT word!); however, through a belief in Jesus, they have become moot since Jesus is now the bearer of these 'sins'. Is that right or have I got something wrong here? The thing is ...we will never NOT be 'sinners' if I have the story correct. So, even if homosexuality IS a 'sin' homosexuals are covered by the blood of Christ if they believe. Right?

Gee, this is complicated ...!

Requirements that statements must be made from Jesus in order for them to be true nullifies the rest of the Bible and Jesus' support for the Word. To claim that things which Jesus didn't say are untrue is a means to rationalize behavior that conscience condemns but flesh endorses.

But this is not what occurred here. The poster specifically stated that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible. And, since it would appear that the majority of professed Christians are little more than sponges who soak up whatever they are told, telling blatant lies about Jesus having said this or that simply to make an anti-gay slur is not a good thing.

Also, I don't know where the notion that recreational sex is sinful came from, but Paul even says do not withhold sexual relations from your spouse (except for a time of spiritual devotion).

Other than someone who achieved biblical fame through the luck of the draw (by those who compiled scripture) why do we naturally assume that Paul had any divine authority to instruct anyone about anything? I don't mean any disrespect to Paul since it's not his fault that people have deified him in the way that they have. But it IS unreasonable to use Paul - apparently a virgin batchelor - as some kind of a marriage counselor. I would be curious as to why Paul felt the need to make the comment to begin with. How would he know who was withholding sexual relations from whoever? He obviously made the remark for a reason ...if he said that at all.

[KCKID]

Overall, there is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is not sinful, as has been discussed. Requirements that statements must be made from Jesus in order for them to be true nullifies the rest of the Bible and Jesus' support for the Word. To claim that things which Jesus didn't say are untrue is a means to rationalize behavior that conscience condemns but flesh endorses.

Also, I don't know where the notion that recreational sex is sinful came from, but Paul even says do not withhold sexual relations from your spouse (except for a time of spiritual devotion).

The only "evidence" to suggest that homosexuality is "wrong" comes from religious books. So there is no EVIDENCE at all.

You are correct in saying that the only evidence is from religious beliefs, but that is what we are discussing here - whether or not the Bible dictates that homosexuality is sinful, which it does.

I would debate the bolded part. However, as I keep saying - and will keep saying until someone proves me wrong - EVERYTHING we do as humans is 'sinful' according to God/the Bible. There is only one exception from what I see ...that is, those who worship God are temporarily excempt from sin. Once they get off their knees and rise to their feet, however, they become 'sinners' again. So, why has homosexuality been singled out from the myriads of other perceived 'sins' that the Bible references? Sorry, but none of this makes any sense to me.

So you are free to believe what you will. I will though mention that the nature of families and child development does provide evidence that homosexuality would be an improper way to live. You will surely disagree with that statement, but it will only be to defend what you have already determined to be true.

Bolded part: as we all have a tendency to do. The thing is, we DON'T live in an ideal world and this includes the idealistic concept of 'family'. I became a ward of the state at 6 years old and was institutionalized until I was 13. Foster parents became my 'normal' family which included a dozen or so similarly aged orphaned or state ward 'brothers'. And, while there was some forms of abuse I really don't have too many unpleasant memories. With or without homosexuality we would have marital breakups, dysfunctional families, kids who are invoved in drugs, alcohol, finish up in detention or jail, etc. The Father Knows Best TV scenerio from the 1950's might give us the warm and fuzzies (or make others want to puke) but, realistically speaking, family life is not like that. I'm sure that homosexuality will not screw family life up any more than heterosexuals have already done.

[KCKID]

So did this person on the other forum (which shall remain unnamed) refuse to post scriptural evidence for their belief?

Yes, they refused since they would be hard pressed to post such a scripture that doesn't exist.

If so what reason did they give for denying your request?... Or were you met with silence?

Oh no ...certainly not silence. Others responded for a while on his behalf with insults and sarcasm and immature diatribe designed to make me feel uncomfortable for daring to ask such a question. After all, I was a newcomer to the forum and had no right to take issue with an 'old timer' who had long since staked his 'territorial' rights on the forum. My question appeared to jerk everyone (not quite everyone, I had one supporter) out of their pious comfort zone. A benefit of being in this zone is that it apparently gives them the divine right to bash homosexuals.

The poster himself responded afterwards with what he thought was a challenge for me. This was met with the approval of his small but loyal group of followers who thought that his challenge was clever. He said that he would respond to my question as soon as I presented scripture that claimed wife bashing and selling children into slavery was not approved by Jesus. It became so silly that I eventually dropped the subject. I'm perfectly willing to send the forum link by PM to anyone interested. At the same time I don't want to exaggerate the importance of this topic. It's just that I find some professed Christians on some of these Christian forums to be quite horrible people and totally intolerant to another's viewpoint if it dares to clash with theirs ...