Religious Belief

[Peter]

When does a fervent hope become an actual belief and will the believer recognize the difference? Based on years of debate I don't think they will.

The elephant in the room is death. I spent billions of years in oblivion and I'm not afraid to return to it but some people obviously are. Fear of death must be the number one reason for wishing there's an eternal life and this wish has become a belief in theists the world over. Are they capable of recognizing this belief is simply a strong desire? Should I even try to dissuade them of this belief?

I wouldn't be here if I didn't think religion was the most dangerous impediment to the continued existence of humanity. It's insanity on an inconceivable scale and if we can't just learn to love one another we're doomed as a species. There's more than enough strife and fighting in the world over real issues to justify the addition of imaginary issues like who's god can beat up someone elses god.

It's time to outgrow imaginary playmates and father figures. We have hard work ahead of us if we plan to be around as long as the dinosaurs and I for one will be hugely disappointed if we're not.

[Morphine]

When does a fervent hope become an actual belief and will the believer recognize the difference?

When the person becomes very desperate. Of course not. In many cases, if not all, they can't afford to.

[cholland]

However, right now, he's HERE and can have an opinion and a purpose.

And that purpose is?

Mind if I butt in? Well I really don't care, was just being polite.
That purpose is to live.
Bit hard to understand, perhaps? They tell me religion does that to a being.

The purpose of life is to live. Profound. I guess we're all going to fail that purpose some day.

Then, we will HAVE LIVED,

That at least can be shown.

haha...someone get Goat a book contract. Let me guess, the purpose of eating is to eat?

[ttruscott]

When does a fervent hope become an actual belief and will the believer recognize the difference? Based on years of debate I don't think they will.

...

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

or rather
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Faith is the foundation of Christianity and it is based upon hope that is not seen, that is, unproven.

While it is expected that non-believers do not understand the ground of our faith in that it comes from GOD HIMself, to attack faith is to attack the essential reality of the Christian experience. We usually expect such attacks from those dedicated to evil, not ordinary people...

Like a lie, if believed, destroys someone's take on reality, that is, makes them a little bit insane (not dealing with a true reality), an attack on the concept of faith undermines their mental balance...good luck with that. Romans 8:31 If God is for us, who can be against us?

Peace, Ted

[Clownboat]

When does a fervent hope become an actual belief and will the believer recognize the difference? Based on years of debate I don't think they will.

...

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

or rather
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Faith is the foundation of Christianity and it is based upon hope that is not seen, that is, unproven.

While it is expected that non-believers do not understand the ground of our faith in that it comes from GOD HIMself, to attack faith is to attack the essential reality of the Christian experience. We usually expect such attacks from those dedicated to evil, not ordinary people...

Like a lie, if believed, destroys someone's take on reality, that is, makes them a little bit insane (not dealing with a true reality), an attack on the concept of faith undermines their mental balance...good luck with that. Romans 8:31 If God is for us, who can be against us?

Peace, Ted

You are incorrect about the bold, it's also a bit insulting as a past Christian.

I had faith. I attended church and a Christian school (among many other things) to nurture this faith, and I did so successfully for almost 2 decades. I put a lot of work into maintaining my faith, which makes it a little insulting for you to disregard my hard work by claiming a god gave it to me. Maintaining your faith is a hard thing to do. My evidence for this is all the people that lose their faith on a daily basis.

Both of my bothers sons earned "Eagle Scout". This is not something easy to do as many of you may know. I felt sorry for them at their ceremonies when they gave credit to god for making this happen. Seriously, all this work that YOU did, and you want to give credit to a being that did NONE of it? I wanted to shake them both and tell them that they deserved what they got for their actions and hard work and that they should be proud of themselves for their accomplishments. I have left them to their belief though, it just makes me sad.

[southern cross]

However, right now, he's HERE and can have an opinion and a purpose.

And that purpose is?

Mind if I butt in? Well I really don't care, was just being polite.
That purpose is to live.
Bit hard to understand, perhaps? They tell me religion does that to a being.

The purpose of life is to live. Profound. I guess we're all going to fail that purpose some day.

It would seem that you have already failed Cholla. Death isn't a failure of life it is an tegral part of life, the culmination if you will.

When does a fervent hope become an actual belief and will the believer recognize the difference? Based on years of debate I don't think they will.

...

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

or rather
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Faith is the foundation of Christianity and it is based upon hope that is not seen, that is, unproven.

While it is expected that non-believers do not understand the ground of our faith in that it comes from GOD HIMself, to attack faith is to attack the essential reality of the Christian experience. We usually expect such attacks from those dedicated to evil, not ordinary people...

Like a lie, if believed, destroys someone's take on reality, that is, makes them a little bit insane (not dealing with a true reality), an attack on the concept of faith undermines their mental balance...good luck with that. Romans 8:31 If God is for us, who can be against us?

Peace, Ted

The hope that your faith is based on is the hope that you won't die, that you will live forever. The hope is based on your primeval fear of the unknown, your hope was spawned in the minds of your primative ancestors.
What sort of god would create you to waste your life pining for a better life? What an absolute waste of ones life.
The purpose of life is to live, not to hope beyond reason for another better life. Why would you deserve another better life when you wasted the one you had, being greedy?
It is pure hubris to believe that you deserve better than this life you have.

[antonenus]

Like a lie, if believed, destroys someone's take on reality, that is, makes them a little bit insane (not dealing with a true reality)......

(Bold added by me)

How does a Christian who has faith (belief) in the bible/God/the supernatural etc., know if they are believing a lie or not?

In my opinion, they can't - due to the fact they believe their information comes from God (whether it be scriptural, personal revelation, Holy spirit, etc.) and so their information cannot be wrong/false. In believing that your information, in whatever form, cannot be wrong, one removes the ability to see a lie, no matter how glaring it is.

Blinding yourself to the possibility of being wrong removes the ability to determine if you are right.

I'm not saying that religious people are all insane, however faith enables people to VERY EASILY believe a lie. Christians must also agree with this, as by claiming that theirs is the one true religion, all the other religions are lies, believed by thousands and even millions of people.

[cholland]

However, right now, he's HERE and can have an opinion and a purpose.

And that purpose is?

Mind if I butt in? Well I really don't care, was just being polite.
That purpose is to live.
Bit hard to understand, perhaps? They tell me religion does that to a being.

The purpose of life is to live. Profound. I guess we're all going to fail that purpose some day.

It would seem that you have already failed Cholla. Death isn't a failure of life it is an tegral part of life, the culmination if you will.

Death is now a part of life? And I've failed at living because I haven't died?

I was always taught that death was the absence of life. But maybe they've rewritten the science books.

[southern cross]

However, right now, he's HERE and can have an opinion and a purpose.

And that purpose is?

Mind if I butt in? Well I really don't care, was just being polite.
That purpose is to live.
Bit hard to understand, perhaps? They tell me religion does that to a being.

The purpose of life is to live. Profound. I guess we're all going to fail that purpose some day.

It would seem that you have already failed Cholla. Death isn't a failure of life it is an tegral part of life, the culmination if you will.

Death is now a part of life? And I've failed at living because I haven't died?

I was always taught that death was the absence of life. But maybe they've rewritten the science books.

Ahh the ability to obfuscate and self confuse is so vitally important to a believer, isn't it?
Were you unaware that DEATH is an integral and vital part of life? I think that your parents at least have been remiss in your education.
Do try to read up on a phenomenon called a "life cycle". No it has nothing to do with the Tour de France.
Just type "life cycle" into google and fill your boots.

[cholland]

However, right now, he's HERE and can have an opinion and a purpose.

And that purpose is?

Mind if I butt in? Well I really don't care, was just being polite.
That purpose is to live.
Bit hard to understand, perhaps? They tell me religion does that to a being.

The purpose of life is to live. Profound. I guess we're all going to fail that purpose some day.

It would seem that you have already failed Cholla. Death isn't a failure of life it is an tegral part of life, the culmination if you will.

Death is now a part of life? And I've failed at living because I haven't died?

I was always taught that death was the absence of life. But maybe they've rewritten the science books.

Ahh the ability to obfuscate and self confuse is so vitally important to a believer, isn't it?
Were you unaware that DEATH is an integral and vital part of life? I think that your parents at least have been remiss in your education.

Again, I was taught that death was the absence of life, not part of it and especially not integral to it. Jeez, how have I been living all these years without death??

Do try to read up on a phenomenon called a "life cycle". No it has nothing to do with the Tour de France.
Just type "life cycle" into google and fill your boots.

Life Cycle

Which link?

[southern cross]

[Replying to post 19 by cholland]

Quick heads up cholla. Everything that lives, also dies. It just a part of living. As I said your mummy and daddy may have been remiss in not informing you of this very simple FACT of life.
Hey fill ya boots with a misguided belief in the contrary, I prefer reality.