Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity?

[Moses Yoder]

I don't normally copy and paste an article but this is great stuff. At the end I have a question.

The morning after Chick-fil-A day
AUGUST 2, 2012 BY MIKE PATZ 1 COMMENT

Its the morning after the Chick-fil-A drama and Im still chewing.

I remember the day I was sitting next to an incredibly nice gay guy, enjoying a really good conversation when he dropped the ultimate conversation-killer.

What do you do for a living?

I hate that question. I hate that question because people cant help but size you up when they hear the answer. I hate that question because were already prone to think of ourselves as human doings instead of human beings. I hate that question because of what it does to people when they find out what I do.

Ive often tried to find ways around the question. Ive told people I work with non-profit organizations (this is true). Ive told people that I write (this is true). Ive even told people that I am a spiritual guru that assists people in opening their third eye (I really like this one). For whatever reason, on that day, I just cut to the chase. I work as a pastor of a church.

Everything changed. His next words went something like this:

Listen, Im gay and Im content with who I am. Im sure you are going to say that I was not born this way, and I wont argue the point. For a significant part of my childhood I was violated by a neighbor and then an uncle. Did that play a role in my sexual orientation? Possibly. I also know many people that had a trouble-free childhood and they turned out very happily gay. Regardless of how it occurred, this is who I am now and I make no apologies for the man I have become. If God has a problem with a man who tries to be true to himself, then I have a problem with a God that allows these kinds of things to happen to kids like me in the first place.

I kept thinking how much easier it would have been if I said I was a writer.


Fortunately, Jesus has a way of showing up in the middle of conversations just like these, and on that day He did not disappoint. My friend shared his heart, and I shared mine. Ive never seen people change via argument, which is why I prefer to help people taste and see that the Lord is good.

This is where Christians tend to blow it.

They taste really bad. They serve up some really Biblical truth in some really nauseating ways. They major on minors and minor on majors. They tend to be extremely unaware of their pride, and pride is like bad breath " everybody knows you have it, except for you. Its always easy to scream the loudest about sins you do not personally struggle with.

So why are we yelling?

Im still not sure why Christians are so militant in their opposition of homosexual immorality while they seem to go so mild with their opposition of heterosexual immorality. I hear the concern about homosexuality and the catch phrase is often family values: Imagine how much it will mess up a child who is being raised by two women, the reasoning goes. A kid needs both a father and a mother, we say. Yet the gays I speak with often wonder how the church can talk about family values when 50-60% of Christian couples divorce. Talk about family values. So a community of people that do not stay married is trying to talk to us about marital morality. How ironic.

In light of the fact that Christians have just as much pre-marital sex and watch just as much porn and divorce just as frequently why arent we more embarrassed to speak out on the issue of homosexual sin? Good question.

One guy said, Its funny how you can claim the grace of God to cover heterosexual sin while saying that homosexual sin is beyond the reach of Gods grace.

That brings me to all the Chick"fil-A drama.

I get why Chick-fil-A day looked so annoying to so many people yesterday. I understand why people have planned a kiss-in this Friday. And I can see why people shake their heads when they read yet another homophobic Facebook post.

Church people ask, why wont our culture repent? My answer: because repentance is a learned behavior. Someone has to model it. I tell parents that its silly to expect a child to repent when they have never seen a parent repent. And its futile to wait for a culture to repent when a culture has never seen the Church repent.

Is the real problem with our culture the unrepentant gay community? No. Its an unrepentant Church.

I am so sorry today for all the hatred that Christians have dished out toward gays. I am so sorry for all of the homophobic sarcasm that has come from the pulpits of Christian ministers. I am so sorry for the way we pick and choose which sins to condemn. I am so sorry that we have claimed to follow Jesus while we neglected widows and orphans, and then engaged in gossip and gluttony. I am so sorry that we have provided such a bad example for the rest of society to follow. Im embarrassed, Im ashamed, and I repent. Im serious. I repent.

Yet Im also concerned that when our culture most needs to hear truth, Christians dont know how to tell it.

Weve come to a dangerous moment in culture, and Christians are ill-equipped to handle it. We have reached the point where disagreement is now seen as hatred. I read an article today where a woman was appealing to Christians to recognize their hateful crimes against the homosexual community. I nodded in agreement, but decided to keep reading to see how she itemized these crimes. Paragraph after paragraph described the hurt and rejection resulting from these offenses, but it took a while to get to the actual crime: Christians claim that homosexuality is a sin. I was stunned. Disagreement was equated with hate.

Christians have a substantial challenge on their hands because every generation and every culture is going to disagree with Gods truth at some point. How interesting that our USAmerican culture considers Christianity to be closed-minded on the issue of sexual morality, while the majority of world religions are in agreement in opposition to the USA position on sexuality. Is USA culture not closed-minded for claiming that all these other religions are wrong? Is it not hypocrisy to say that we will be tolerant with everybody " except the people we consider intolerant. Closed-mindedness is not just a religious thing, its a human thing.

If ever Christians needed some good breath, it is now.

Because we have to kiss this world with the truth of God.

The problem is, no matter how good your kiss, your breath can ruin the whole experience. And no matter how much truth we bring, if it does not drip with grace and humility, it always falls flat.

Im not asking Christians to stop telling the truth, Im asking them to brush their teeth.

What does that look like? The apostle Paul said to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy towards all people. (Titus 3:2)

Can you imagine what would happen if an entire chunk of Christians decided to embrace the Titus 3:2 approach? Will people be staging protests and kiss-ins to protest Chick-fil-A? Maybe. But the way of Jesus is to speak evil of no one. Has Chick-fil-A been bullied? Yes. But the kingdom of Jesus response is to avoid quarreling. Is there more drama to come as our culture becomes increasingly polarized? Of course. But if God is our Father, then we have to start showing the family resemblance, being gentle and showing perfect courtesy. This should have an effect on the way we post our thoughts on Facebook. Or talk to angry people at work. Or wait in line at Chick-fil-A.

You see, we cant shrink back on truth-telling or we dishonor the very Gospel. But when we bring the truth of Jesus we have to do it in the Spirit of Jesus.

Or stop being surprised when our culture doesnt want a kiss.

Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity? If not, why do Christians hate gay people so much? If the two are equally bad, why do so many Christians who would never be gay cheat on their wife?

[KCKID]

Though some dispute it, I believe Romans 1:27 "mentions" homosexual sex.

Yes, it does. But do you know the context of this scripture? Evidently, not too many Christians do and those that do choose to ignore the context because they want it to fit their anti-gay stance. The text you mention is referencing idol worship/temple prostitution and its associated practices. Are you aware of what those practices entailed? Paul's tights are in a twist because pagan worship practices are being incorporated into the early Christian Church. Perhaps you might care to read up on the pagan worship practices of Paul's day. Whether homosexuality per se is 'a sin' is NOT addressed in this particular scripture.

In addition, the only sexual relationships condoned in the NT are those between the opposite sex.

Really? Where are those scriptures that reference/condone heterosexual sexual relationships? They appear to have been too coy in those days to even acknowledge that people were actually having sex.

[noshameinChrist]

Though some dispute it, I believe Romans 1:27 "mentions" homosexual sex.

Yes, it does. But do you know the context of this scripture? Evidently, not too many Christians do and those that do choose to ignore the context because they want it to fit their anti-gay stance. The text you mention is referencing idol worship/temple prostitution and its associated practices. Are you aware of what those practices entailed? Paul's tights are in a twist because pagan worship practices are being incorporated into the early Christian Church. Perhaps you might care to read up on the pagan worship practices of Paul's day. Whether homosexuality per se is 'a sin' is NOT addressed in this particular scripture.

In addition, the only sexual relationships condoned in the NT are those between the opposite sex.

Really? Where are those scriptures that reference/condone heterosexual sexual relationships? They appear to have been too coy in those days to even acknowledge that people were actually having sex.

Even if Paul is primarily talking about idol worship, and the related pagan practices, this does not take away from the fact that he identified homosexual sex in his prohibition of the conduct.

One scripture that condones heterosexual sex is 1 Corinthians 7:3. I don't think there was coyness at all.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity?

'Pends on if the old lady caught me messing around with some dude I swore I wouldn't mess around on some other dude with, and now I feel all icky, and I'm a bit upset you asked the question there in the first place.

We have here, a question of whether a god might be more forgiving of the one of it, but he might be less forgiving of the other'n.

What we don't have is any confirmatory data to show a god is upset in the least about any doings we might find us a-doing.

So then, who is so proud they'd dare declare their answer to this topic definitive?

Who's so proud to say they couldn't stand for that pretty thang eatin' her a muffin, and they'd let us watch and we didn't hafta pay, but gol-dangit, don't it beat all, it makes God shed a tear?

[Allahakbar]

Though some dispute it, I believe Romans 1:27 "mentions" homosexual sex. In addition, the only sexual relationships condoned in the NT are those between the opposite sex..

And Romans1:18 says god has already revealed his wrath to those people. What was he doing to them and is he still doing it now?
Who was it in the NT who told the people to refrain from sex with their wives until the end times had come, or something like that? That was a big oops.
Oh and the passage you referenced doesn't prohibit anything it just says your god had punished them for their behaviour.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 24:

To answer your questions, I have no desire to engage in homosexual sex. Now, I am married, but I do still find myself attracted to women.

I think of someone who has no shame in a dude travellin' round with twelve or so other dudes, and who feels compelled to mention that he "but" does still find himself attracted to women.

As a Christian, I avoid putting myself in a position where I might engage in an adulterous relationship. Why? Because no matter how I might "feel" about another women, to do so would be sinful and wrong.

Presented with absoulutely no confirmable evidence.

es, I have read the Bible. As a Christian it is OK for me to eat whatever food I want (1 Tim 4:4). I have read scripture, and I understand the different between the 'Old' testament and the 'New' testament. I think this is where you err my friend.

How 'bout some human that done died cause his cirrhosis done caught up with him, and you can't find you no biscuit in the land?

[KCKID]

Though some dispute it, I believe Romans 1:27 "mentions" homosexual sex.

Yes, it does. But do you know the context of this scripture? Evidently, not too many Christians do and those that do choose to ignore the context because they want it to fit their anti-gay stance. The text you mention is referencing idol worship/temple prostitution and its associated practices. Are you aware of what those practices entailed? Paul's tights are in a twist because pagan worship practices are being incorporated into the early Christian Church. Perhaps you might care to read up on the pagan worship practices of Paul's day. Whether homosexuality per se is 'a sin' is NOT addressed in this particular scripture.

In addition, the only sexual relationships condoned in the NT are those between the opposite sex.

Really? Where are those scriptures that reference/condone heterosexual sexual relationships? They appear to have been too coy in those days to even acknowledge that people were actually having sex.

Even if Paul is primarily talking about idol worship, and the related pagan practices, this does not take away from the fact that he identified homosexual sex in his prohibition of the conduct.

Of course it does. Idol worship is the issue here. Not homosexuality per se, nor heterosexuality per se since heterosexual pagan fertility rituals were also a part of idol worship. How would Paul even know that someone is having homosexual (or heterosexual) sex unless it's being performed in public? Not unless he shares their private abode which, of course, he doesn't. How would you or I know what goes on in private unless we're told? There's a whole lot of 'assuming' going on within Christianity. Our friend, 99percentatheism, for instance, ASSUMES what goes on in someone's bedroom and even condemns them for what he assumes. And, these assumptions lead him to believe that one's private intimacy is tearing the Christian Church apart no less! How the heck can that happen?

Anyway, let's cut to the chase here. I'm really not too interested in what Paul may or may not disapprove of. Show me where Jesus has a gripe against homosexuality then perhaps we'll have a case to consider.

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to post 1 by Moses Yoder]

I haven't read all the posts, so maybe this question has already been responded to as I will do now...

First, as a Christian, I don't "hate" those who engage in homosexual sex. However, I believe homosexual sex is a sin just as there are sexual sins that involve heterosexuals (e.g. adultery; fornication). Thus, as a Christian I will neither back down from proclaiming homosexual sex is a sin, and therefore wrong, nor will I back down from proclaiming that adultery and/or fornication is a sin. They are all sexual sins and against God.

From my experiences, the "hate" comes mostly from supporters of homosexual sex against those, under the banner of Christianity, who will not condone homosexual sex. Again, this is based on my experiences.

The Bible does say that homosexuality is a sin.

It also says that it's wrong for a woman to teach or hold a position of authority.

It also says that women shouldn't be allowed to speak in church.

It also says that women are the property of men.

It also says that it's an abomination to have gay sex AND to eat shrimp.

It also says that slavery is ok.

It also says that rape victims should be forced to marry their rapists.

It also says that slavery is ok.

It also says that genocide is ok.

It also says you should kill your children if they misbehave.


So, it's great that you think the Bible is the inspired word of God, and that if it says homosexuality is a sin, then you obey God's word.

My question is this, why do you hate God, and disobey his Holy Word when it comes to the commandment to forbid women from being teachers?

He died on the cross for you. He faced the torment of torture and crucifixion for you. Why would you spit on the holy cross and eat shrimp?

I was actually just attempting to respond to the original post. I did not say that I "hate God" or anyone else. I love God, and yes I want to demonstrate that by living the way He would have me to live. In simple terms this means striving to do things He asked me to do, and avoiding things He directs me to avoid.

Perfect, so you avoid homosexuality, eating shrimp and wearing shirts made of two different fabrics, right? You obey his commandments to kill your own children if they misbehave, right? You obey his commandment to prevent women from talking in church, right?

Because if you say you strive to obey the inerrant word of God (the Bible), then you must do these things, right?

You HAVE read the Bible, haven't you?

To answer your questions, I have no desire to engage in homosexual sex. Now, I am married, but I do still find myself attracted to women. As a Christian, I avoid putting myself in a position where I might engage in an adulterous relationship. Why? Because no matter how I might "feel" about another women, to do so would be sinful and wrong.

Yes, I have read the Bible. As a Christian it is OK for me to eat whatever food I want (1 Tim 4:4). I have read scripture, and I understand the different between the 'Old' testament and the 'New' testament. I think this is where you err my friend.

The New Testament says that women are not allowed to speak in church. Is this the inerrant word of God?

In the New Testament it says that not one tittle of the law shall change until everything that must happen has happened. Was Jesus lying when he said that?

What percentage of the Commandments of the Old Testament should we follow? 0%? 100%? 50%?

Is the Bible 0% inerrant? 100% inerrant? 50% inerrant?

Also, the Bible says that it's not what goes into a man's mouth that is unclean, but what comes out. By that logic, it's not unclean to put a penis in your mouth, as long as you swallow instead of spitting, right? Think about it.

Your last question demonstrates clearly that you are being extraordinarily silly. Grow up.

The only thing that is silly is that you were given an easy out. Try and answer the question, not just for us, but for yourself. Please tell us what you believe... personally. When you read the bible to yourself, how much of it do you disregard, and why? For you personally, what makes a biblical writing wrong/unbelievable/unlikely?

[Cewakiyelo]

If we are looking at this from a Christian standpoint than sin is sin. Whether, a person is gay or a pedophile,or addicted to porn, or an alcoholic, etc.. The things that take us away from our service to God is sin. It matters not how normal it seems for any of us. Regardless how we feel that it is part of our being, and is who we are, it matters not.

Our nature was altered when we ate of the tree of knowledge, and not in a good way. It makes us see these things that urge us as to do things that seem normal. And they are, they are a part of our beings now. But that does not change a thing. It has nothing to do with how normal our desires seem. It has everything with acting upon our sinful desires.

We can say that we don't have a choice in who we are and the desires we have, and that is true. However, we do have a choice in how we choose to respond to those desires. We can choose to accommodate and act upon them or we can turn away from them, how ever difficult it may be.

The purpose of intercourse is to bring life into the world. If it is done for any other reason than it is for the sole purpose of personal gratification. Those things which are for the purpose of personal gratification are not being done to please God. So regardless if it is adultery, or porn addiction, or alcoholism, drug addiction, or homosexuality, if it is not done for the purpose of raising God up, than it is tearing God down. When we cater to our sins, what ever they are, we are being selfish and God wants that we should be selfless. We are not to live for our ways and our will we are to live for His ways and by the will of His Spirit.

[KCKID]

If we are looking at this from a Christian standpoint than sin is sin. Whether, a person is gay or a pedophile,or addicted to porn, or an alcoholic, etc.. The things that take us away from our service to God is sin. It matters not how normal it seems for any of us. Regardless how we feel that it is part of our being, and is who we are, it matters not.

Being human pretty well equates to 'sin'. If only Jesus is purported to be perfect then how can we be expected to be anything other than sinful? By the way, what IS 'our service' to God that you speak of?

Our nature was altered when we ate of the tree of knowledge, and not in a good way. It makes us see these things that urge us as to do things that seem normal. And they are, they are a part of our beings now. But that does not change a thing. It has nothing to do with how normal our desires seem. It has everything with acting upon our sinful desires.

You actually take the Genesis story as being literal?

We can say that we don't have a choice in who we are and the desires we have, and that is true. However, we do have a choice in how we choose to respond to those desires. We can choose to accommodate and act upon them or we can turn away from them, how ever difficult it may be.

And, it's because we're human that we so often act on those desires. Why is it somehow considered to be wrong being human? We're told that only one person was perfect so as long as we are imperfect we will therefore continue to 'sin'. Why this preoccupation with the word 'sin' that is no less a part of our humanness? When does one consider themselves in a position to condemn other sinners?

The purpose of intercourse is to bring life into the world. If it is done for any other reason than it is for the sole purpose of personal gratification.

Oh dear. That rocks the boat somewhat. We all suddenly became guilty of performing illicit sex. No birth control. No condoms. No recreational sex. Do you realize what you just said?

Those things which are for the purpose of personal gratification are not being done to please God.

May I ask for a show of hands from those who don't perform sex for personal gratification but from obligation? May I ask for a show of hands from all of those who perform sex merely to please God?

So regardless if it is adultery, or porn addiction, or alcoholism, drug addiction, or homosexuality, if it is not done for the purpose of raising God up, than it is tearing God down.

Again ...may I ask for a show of hands from those who perform sex for the purpose of raising up God? What does that even mean . . .?

When we cater to our sins, what ever they are, we are being selfish and God wants that we should be selfless. We are not to live for our ways and our will we are to live for His ways and by the will of His Spirit.

Sounds little more than religious rhetoric to me.

[help3434]

If the two are equally bad, why do so many Christians who would never be gay cheat on their wife?

Uh, because he is not gay? It is hardly a sign of moral fortitude to not succumb to something you aren't even tempted by. The real question is why some Christians who do succumb to their temptations seem to think that they are better than gay people.