Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity?

[Moses Yoder]

I don't normally copy and paste an article but this is great stuff. At the end I have a question.

The morning after Chick-fil-A day
AUGUST 2, 2012 BY MIKE PATZ 1 COMMENT

Its the morning after the Chick-fil-A drama and Im still chewing.

I remember the day I was sitting next to an incredibly nice gay guy, enjoying a really good conversation when he dropped the ultimate conversation-killer.

What do you do for a living?

I hate that question. I hate that question because people cant help but size you up when they hear the answer. I hate that question because were already prone to think of ourselves as human doings instead of human beings. I hate that question because of what it does to people when they find out what I do.

Ive often tried to find ways around the question. Ive told people I work with non-profit organizations (this is true). Ive told people that I write (this is true). Ive even told people that I am a spiritual guru that assists people in opening their third eye (I really like this one). For whatever reason, on that day, I just cut to the chase. I work as a pastor of a church.

Everything changed. His next words went something like this:

Listen, Im gay and Im content with who I am. Im sure you are going to say that I was not born this way, and I wont argue the point. For a significant part of my childhood I was violated by a neighbor and then an uncle. Did that play a role in my sexual orientation? Possibly. I also know many people that had a trouble-free childhood and they turned out very happily gay. Regardless of how it occurred, this is who I am now and I make no apologies for the man I have become. If God has a problem with a man who tries to be true to himself, then I have a problem with a God that allows these kinds of things to happen to kids like me in the first place.

I kept thinking how much easier it would have been if I said I was a writer.


Fortunately, Jesus has a way of showing up in the middle of conversations just like these, and on that day He did not disappoint. My friend shared his heart, and I shared mine. Ive never seen people change via argument, which is why I prefer to help people taste and see that the Lord is good.

This is where Christians tend to blow it.

They taste really bad. They serve up some really Biblical truth in some really nauseating ways. They major on minors and minor on majors. They tend to be extremely unaware of their pride, and pride is like bad breath " everybody knows you have it, except for you. Its always easy to scream the loudest about sins you do not personally struggle with.

So why are we yelling?

Im still not sure why Christians are so militant in their opposition of homosexual immorality while they seem to go so mild with their opposition of heterosexual immorality. I hear the concern about homosexuality and the catch phrase is often family values: Imagine how much it will mess up a child who is being raised by two women, the reasoning goes. A kid needs both a father and a mother, we say. Yet the gays I speak with often wonder how the church can talk about family values when 50-60% of Christian couples divorce. Talk about family values. So a community of people that do not stay married is trying to talk to us about marital morality. How ironic.

In light of the fact that Christians have just as much pre-marital sex and watch just as much porn and divorce just as frequently why arent we more embarrassed to speak out on the issue of homosexual sin? Good question.

One guy said, Its funny how you can claim the grace of God to cover heterosexual sin while saying that homosexual sin is beyond the reach of Gods grace.

That brings me to all the Chick"fil-A drama.

I get why Chick-fil-A day looked so annoying to so many people yesterday. I understand why people have planned a kiss-in this Friday. And I can see why people shake their heads when they read yet another homophobic Facebook post.

Church people ask, why wont our culture repent? My answer: because repentance is a learned behavior. Someone has to model it. I tell parents that its silly to expect a child to repent when they have never seen a parent repent. And its futile to wait for a culture to repent when a culture has never seen the Church repent.

Is the real problem with our culture the unrepentant gay community? No. Its an unrepentant Church.

I am so sorry today for all the hatred that Christians have dished out toward gays. I am so sorry for all of the homophobic sarcasm that has come from the pulpits of Christian ministers. I am so sorry for the way we pick and choose which sins to condemn. I am so sorry that we have claimed to follow Jesus while we neglected widows and orphans, and then engaged in gossip and gluttony. I am so sorry that we have provided such a bad example for the rest of society to follow. Im embarrassed, Im ashamed, and I repent. Im serious. I repent.

Yet Im also concerned that when our culture most needs to hear truth, Christians dont know how to tell it.

Weve come to a dangerous moment in culture, and Christians are ill-equipped to handle it. We have reached the point where disagreement is now seen as hatred. I read an article today where a woman was appealing to Christians to recognize their hateful crimes against the homosexual community. I nodded in agreement, but decided to keep reading to see how she itemized these crimes. Paragraph after paragraph described the hurt and rejection resulting from these offenses, but it took a while to get to the actual crime: Christians claim that homosexuality is a sin. I was stunned. Disagreement was equated with hate.

Christians have a substantial challenge on their hands because every generation and every culture is going to disagree with Gods truth at some point. How interesting that our USAmerican culture considers Christianity to be closed-minded on the issue of sexual morality, while the majority of world religions are in agreement in opposition to the USA position on sexuality. Is USA culture not closed-minded for claiming that all these other religions are wrong? Is it not hypocrisy to say that we will be tolerant with everybody " except the people we consider intolerant. Closed-mindedness is not just a religious thing, its a human thing.

If ever Christians needed some good breath, it is now.

Because we have to kiss this world with the truth of God.

The problem is, no matter how good your kiss, your breath can ruin the whole experience. And no matter how much truth we bring, if it does not drip with grace and humility, it always falls flat.

Im not asking Christians to stop telling the truth, Im asking them to brush their teeth.

What does that look like? The apostle Paul said to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy towards all people. (Titus 3:2)

Can you imagine what would happen if an entire chunk of Christians decided to embrace the Titus 3:2 approach? Will people be staging protests and kiss-ins to protest Chick-fil-A? Maybe. But the way of Jesus is to speak evil of no one. Has Chick-fil-A been bullied? Yes. But the kingdom of Jesus response is to avoid quarreling. Is there more drama to come as our culture becomes increasingly polarized? Of course. But if God is our Father, then we have to start showing the family resemblance, being gentle and showing perfect courtesy. This should have an effect on the way we post our thoughts on Facebook. Or talk to angry people at work. Or wait in line at Chick-fil-A.

You see, we cant shrink back on truth-telling or we dishonor the very Gospel. But when we bring the truth of Jesus we have to do it in the Spirit of Jesus.

Or stop being surprised when our culture doesnt want a kiss.

Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity? If not, why do Christians hate gay people so much? If the two are equally bad, why do so many Christians who would never be gay cheat on their wife?

[Allahakbar]

I actually don't have homosexual urges, but nice try. I honestly don't know when I first chose to engage in heterosexual sex. I do know that it was when I was single. And, I do know that it was a sin when I made the decision to do so. I did not then, and I do not now, attempt to suggest that it was NOT a sin simply because it was something I desired and decided to engage in.

If you chose to indulge in heterosexual sexual behaviour, what was the alternative that you rejected?
If you don't and didn't have homosexual urges then you NEVER made a CHOICE. Did you?
You were just plain old hetero. No exotic sexuality supplied by your god, just average. Is that why you hate homosexuals? Because your god made them special and not blandly normal like you?

[Allahakbar]

Here is a video that all STR8's should watch and all gays. This is the demonstration of the bigotry of all bigots.
The really sad thing is that the biblicals and bigots will dismiss it as homo propaganda. When in reality it is REAL.
[youtube][/youtube]

[noshameinChrist]

As I have said, above, homosexual desire is not an issue for me. I do control my desire to engage in sexual contact with women other than my wife. As a man who really finds women beautiful it is a constant effort for me, but I choose to do this because I love God the most, and I want to go to heaven one day. I guess this is why I am referred to as a "fundie". I'm ok with that.

I noticed one question you did not answer is

"When did you choose to be attracted to women over men"? Could you have made another choice? How could you have?

I did answer the question. Please re-read.

[Allahakbar]

[Replying to post 142 by noshameinChrist]

nsic you can't bring yourself to confront your hatred? Or have you watched the video and closed your eyes and ears and sang lalalalalala?

[KCKID]

Please note, the last words Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery was "GO AND SIN NO MORE" (John 8:11).

I just love it when Christians feel the need to add that little extra bit as if it applies to everyone else but themselves. Jesus knew that the woman would undoubtedly sin again - even if not that paticualar sin - by virtue of her being human. Reread the text and this time imagine Jesus quoting, "Go and sin no more" and adding a wink afterward. I'm quite sure that it was said tongue-in-cheek since He had just sent the Pharisees scurrying away with their list of normally covert but recently exposed (by Jesus) sins. This was not a command given by Jesus as it would be impossible to fulfill. If it was then we're ALL in big trouble! You WILL notice that Jesus did not say, "Go and sin no more ...OR ELSE!"

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter.

But Jesus doesn't refer to the adultrous woman as a sinner. Jesus asks of her "Where are your accusers? Has no man condemned you?" Since her accusers have by now hightailed it out of there, she says, "No man, Lord." Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you: go and sin no more." Do you really not see Jesus' tongue-in-cheek interaction with the woman?

Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

That story isn't about me. What the woman had allegedly done was quite clearly no big deal to Jesus, now was it?

You are right, Jesus did forgive and show mercy in that instance. But, he did not condone her reported sexual immorality.

As said previously, He probably didn't. But we are not told this in that scripture. You're reading something into it that is simply not there.

Homosexual sex is sinful, just as adultery and fornication are.

And yet, Jesus did not condemn this woman for allegedly practicing adultery and fornication. Why? This was not just a sin but a sin that required the penalty of death. Just replace 'adulterous woman' with 'homosexual' and the story would probably remain the same. Did Jesus refuse to condemn 'just this once'? Again, we are not told that it was only a 'one off', only that Jesus turned a blind eye at least on this one occasion. Again, why if it is such a sin?

The fact that they occur between consenting adults does not remove this fact.

What, precisely, is the sin of intimacy between two adults?

I believe sinning (engaging in activities in opposition to God) is dangerous.

How is it dangerous? We all do numerous things on a daily basis that would be in opposition to God. We're human beings, for crying out loud. This is the rather typical fear mongering that surrounds much of Christianity. Why do you do this?

You obviously disagree, as your 'tongue-in-cheek' remark suggests. Your choice.

Again, the adultrous woman story is not about me.

This was never the teaching of Christ. Hence, he said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matthew 9:13). To "repent" means to change your life to conform to the ways of Christ.

But it's not your task to moralize to others. Repentance is for you, a personal thing. What other people choose to do or not to do is not your concern.

What does a homosexual need to repent of ...their innate sexuality?

Sin. The same as an adulterer, fornicator, thief, murderer, etc.

Again. Not your concern. You are responsible for only you.

[noshameinChrist]

I actually don't have homosexual urges, but nice try. I honestly don't know when I first chose to engage in heterosexual sex. I do know that it was when I was single. And, I do know that it was a sin when I made the decision to do so. I did not then, and I do not now, attempt to suggest that it was NOT a sin simply because it was something I desired and decided to engage in.

If you chose to indulge in heterosexual sexual behaviour, what was the alternative that you rejected?
If you don't and didn't have homosexual urges then you NEVER made a CHOICE. Did you?
You were just plain old hetero. No exotic sexuality supplied by your god, just average. Is that why you hate homosexuals? Because your god made them special and not blandly normal like you?

First, I never said I hated anyone. You all accuse Christians of being judgmental, but yet you consistently throw these mean spirited labels at me without just cause. It is clear that you "hate" me in the same way Jesus describes in Luke 6:22-23. Nevertheless, I "rejoice" just as Jesus says to do.

To answer your first question, I previously made the "choice" to sin by engaging in heterosexual sex outside of marriage. This is the "choice" I was referring to. Whether couched under the banner "marriage" or not homosexual sex is sin. People who make the choice to engage in it are sinning. Again, I am not talking about "feelings".

I'm fine being "bland". My wife doesn't think I am though

[noshameinChrist]

[Replying to post 142 by noshameinChrist]

nsic you can't bring yourself to confront your hatred? Or have you watched the video and closed your eyes and ears and sang lalalalalala?

My friend, I am not defined by a video. I didn't watch it. I am defined by God, and I am striving to live as He would have me to. Thus, I strive to "do unto others as I would have them do unto me".

[Allahakbar]

[Replying to post 142 by noshameinChrist]

nsic you can't bring yourself to confront your hatred? Or have you watched the video and closed your eyes and ears and sang lalalalalala?

My friend, I am not defined by a video. I didn't watch it. I am defined by God, and I am striving to live as He would have me to. Thus, I strive to "do unto others as I would have them do unto me".

How terribly sad that you are prepared to accept what ancient shepherds said the god they claim exists said, but you are to afraid to even watch a video. You understand what that makes you?

[Allahakbar]

[Replying to post 142 by noshameinChrist]

nsic you can't bring yourself to confront your hatred? Or have you watched the video and closed your eyes and ears and sang lalalalalala?

My friend, I am not defined by a video. I didn't watch it. I am defined by God, and I am striving to live as He would have me to. Thus, I strive to "do unto others as I would have them do unto me".[/u]

Which is precisely what the video is about. But you don't abide by that axiom at all do you? That is why you are too afraid to watch a video.

[KCKID]

My friend, I am not defined by a video. I didn't watch it.

The video involves role reversal where the majority of people in society (mainly children in this case) are gay. These gays persecute and bully those few that are straight.

I am defined by God, and I am striving to live as He would have me to.

Gee, I hope not. Are you familiar with the God of the Old Testament? He's a tyrant. I think you might mean Jesus who (ahem) never said anything about homosexuality . . .

Thus, I strive to "do unto others as I would have them do unto me".

Good for you.