Are Christians being targeted "for real?"

[1John2_26]

Are Christians being targeted "for real?"

Do Christians endure being hated like no other group?

The Media's War on the "War on Christians" Conference
By Don Feder
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 31, 2006


Last week (March 27-28), Vision America convened a War On Christians conference in Washington, D.C. It was the first to address escalating attacks on Christians from Hollywood, the news media, academia, the courts, and activist groups like the ACLU and Anti-Defamation League.

Speakers included scholars, authors, clergy (among them an Orthodox rabbi), lawyers and members of Congress. Delegates came from as far away as South Africa. I was the conference coordinator, as well as a speaker on two panels ("Jews Confront the War On Christians" and "Hollywood: Christians Through a Distorted Lens").

You will be shocked shocked! to learn that the mainstream media did its best to trivialize and marginalize the conference: to present a thoughtful examination of the rising tide of anti-Christian bias and persecution as the work of hysterical, paranoid whack-jobs who are manufacturing a crisis to generate donations and mobilize Republican votes.

An alleged news story in The Washington Post, (March 29th) by Alan Cooperman, was headlined "War on Christians Is Alleged." Try to imagine the Post covering the 2005 conference Examining the Real Agenda of the Religious Far Right and headlining its story "Coming Theocracy Alleged."
Cooperman misidentified Dr. Rick Scarborough, president of Vision America (the conference host) as a "radio commentator." You know, one of those guys who screams at you over the airwaves. In fact, besides being the head of a growing national movement, Scarborough is a Baptist minister, an author and an acclaimed speaker.
Cooperman included extensive quotes attacking the conference SOP for reportage on conservative events. A professor of social ethics charged that the meeting was "a spoiled brat response by Christians who have always enjoyed the privileges of a majority position." A mainline Protestant cleric claimed that by calling attention to the war on Christians in the U.S., the conference "disrespects the experience of people who have been jailed and died because of their faith."
This theme dominated news "coverage" Christians are so powerful that its absurd to claim theyre persecuted. Thus, a commentary in USA Today (March 28th) by Tom Krattenmaker (who called the conferences theme "overblown" and reckless): "We are in the second term of the most faith-friendly, explicitly Christian presidency in many a decade.Hollywood is producing more Christian-friendly movies [like The DaVinci Code? DF] while Christian news media, Christian music, Christian novels and other forms of Christian pop culture continue making their strong mark on society." Im only surprised Krattenmaker didnt cite the presence of "In God We Trust" on our currency to refute claims of Christian persecution.
Apparently, a majority of Americans are equally hysterical, reckless and disrespectful of real persecution. According to a FOX News poll taken in December 2005, 59 percent of the American people agreed with conference organizers that "Christianity is under attack" in the U.S. today.

In reality, you have to be dogmatic, blind and biased which pretty much describes the mainstream media to miss the obvious here.

V for Vendetta is the most explicitly anti-Christian movie to date. Its set in a Britain, 20 years in the future, ruled by a murderous regime of Christian fanatics. (Would Warner Brothers distribute a film about Britain becoming an Islamic republic?) V for Vendetta was the number one box-office draw in its first week of release, and number two in its second, with a cumulative gross revenue of over $46 million.
The latest literary hatchet-job by Kevin Phillips (American Theocracy) claims our civilization will be undone by (among other things) a "milieu of radicalized (and much too influential) religion." With the faithful fighting to keep "One Nation Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance (and the teaching of Creationism recently banned by a federal judge lest students be inspired to meditate on the "G" word), Phillips charge that religion is much too influential in America should provoke peals of uproarious laughter. "American Theocracy" just made it on The New York Times Bestsellers list further evidence of the formidable power of radicalized religion.
In California, an employer can be fined $150,000 (thats not a typo) for firing a man who comes to work in a dress. Believe it or not, the law wasnt intended to target secular humanists.
Hewlett-Packard fired a Christian for posting near his cubicle a sign with Bible verses relating to the prohibition of men lying with men. This was in response to a celebrate sexual-diversity sign posted by the company. Hewlett-Packard does not celebrate diversity of opinion.
At colleges across the country, Christian groups have lost their accreditation for refusing to accept homosexuals as officers. Thus, at schools founded by Christians and endowed by Christians Christians are forced to choose between their conscience and the ability to hold meetings on campus.
In the New York City public school system, Moslem crescents and menorahs are displayed during certain holidays, but not Christmas trees or crches. Incredibly, school officials have decided that the former are non-religious (try telling that to bin Laden) but the latter strictly sectarian.
Recently, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a unanimous resolution attacking the Catholic Church for teaching that children should be placed for adoption with mothers and fathers. The resolution called this "hateful and discriminatory."
Last weekend, the Christian youth group Teen Mania held a two-day revival for 25,000 kids in the city that inspired the moniker San Francisco Democrats. Supervisors labeled this "an act of provocation," while State Assemblyman Mark Leno called it a "fascist mega-pep rally."
Evangelicals have been described as "a clear and present danger to religious liberty in America" (former Labor Secretary Robert Reich), determined to "Christianize all aspects of American Life" (the ADLs Abraham Foxman), "moral retards" and "an ugly, violent lot" (City University of New York Professor Timothy Shortell), possessed of "the same kind of fundamentalist impulse that we see in Saudi Arabia" (Al Gore), and responsible for moving America "each day closer to a theocracy where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule" (a full-page ad in The New York Times, signed by Jane Fonda, Ed Asner and other Hollywood savants).
And, in Philadelphia not quite two years ago, a group of Christians with Repent America were arrested for holding signs and quietly praying at a city-sponsored gay pride event. Though the Christians obeyed all police orders and were accosted by militants, they were arrested and spent 20 hours in jail. The City of Brotherly Love wanted to prosecute them for a laundry list of felonies, including criminal conspiracy. If convicted, they could have faced up to 47 years in prison. (Fortunately, a reality-based judge ruled the Christians were exercising their First Amendment rights and threw out the case.) No other group in America has seen its free-speech rights attacked in similar fashion.
Granted, the foregoing doesnt rise to the level of persecution in Afghanistan (where a man was threatened with death for converting to Christianity), Saudi Arabia (where the New Testament is contraband), or China (where the organizers of home churches are imprisoned). And, granted again, unlike Europe, Christianity is thriving in America.

But to say the presidency of George W. Bush proves the potency of conservative Christians is a real stretch.

Bushs rep as an "explicitly Christian" president is based mostly on the 2000 campaign, wherein he referred to Jesus as his favorite philosopher. Last year, White House "Christmas" cards didnt even mention by name the holiday celebrated by more than 90 percent of Americans. Bush invokes the Almighty no more than any of his predecessors.

Despite a GOP majority reputed to be the love-slaves of Jerry Falwell, its been almost two years since Congress voted a on a federal marriage amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Other than a ban on partial-birth abortion, the political agenda of Christian conservatives has been studiously ignored in our nations capital.

The news and entertainment media, public education, higher education, the judiciary and a fair number of corporations and foundations are in the hands of ideologues who despise Bible-believing Christians, and who rarely miss an opportunity to smear them, to foment hatred against them and to circumscribe their activities.

Give the National Socialists credit for candor. In 1920s Germany, if a Jew had said to a Nazi, "You hate me," the goose-steeper would have replied: "Youre right, Jew. And if we ever get a chance, well kill you." He would not have accused his victim of paranoia, hysteria, disrespecting real religious persecution, and making wild allegations for fundraising purposes.

The war on Christians is real. So too is the medias thoroughly biased coverage of same.

[scorpia]

The conflict has centered on the territory of Kashmir and many analysts have feared that it may result in a full-scale nuclear war.

And India is hosting the commonwealth games........ good grief

I'm sorry I don't understand this comment. I am pointing out that there is historical evidence for Hindus being attacked and persecuted. What are you saying here?

I was wondering if there is anyone else but the Muslims who have such a dispute with the Hindus. After all, Muslims have a lot on their own plate, by now everyone thinks that just by being one is as bad as extremism. And just about everyone hates the Christians. What about quantity? Just how many enemies do these people have?

You are correct but I am trying to explain that atheists have not escaped these accusations. Many people have blamed a lack of theology on the countless millions killed in the former Soviet Union under Josef Stalin.

Yes, I know of that. But Christianity hasn't escaped other accusations towards it either.

I don't understand. Atheists would not blame secularism for societies problems this would represent a fundamental contradiction.

That wasn't what I meant. I meant that atheists, among others, already see Christianity, or religion, as meaning that they would weaken their morals. Like the example of muslims I gave above; by now everyone thinks that just by being one is as bad as extremism. No-one bothers to note the difference anymore between the extremists and the other followers.

[OccamsRazor]

After all, Muslims have a lot on their own plate

Yes but the Muslim-Hindu conflict can be traced back almost 1500 years. It's not a new thing.

And just about everyone hates the Christians.

Even if this were the case, which I very much doubt, at least 32% of the world's population are self-proclaimed Christians. Again this does not represent a marginalised minority.

Yes, I know of that. But Christianity hasn't escaped other accusations towards it either.

My point is that no-one has escaped accusation. Christians are not the sole target of accusations of 20th century atrocities.

No-one bothers to note the difference anymore between the extremists and the other followers.

I think that this is not quite fair. I would suggest that it is an outspoken minority that would make such an implicit connection.

[scorpia]

Yes but the Muslim-Hindu conflict can be traced back almost 1500 years. It's not a new thing.

What has it being a new thing or not got to do with who is currently the most hated? The length of this happening has no relevance.

Even if this were the case, which I very much doubt, at least 32% of the world's population are self-proclaimed Christians. Again this does not represent a marginalised minority.

Which means it has a lovely 68% who aren't and who may very well be against it. This of course doesn't include any inter-Christain tension, or people who don't even practice the religion.

My point is that no-one has escaped accusation. Christians are not the sole target of accusations of 20th century atrocities.

I was not saying that. I did not mean for it to sound like that.

I think that this is not quite fair. I would suggest that it is an outspoken minority that would make such an implicit connection.

Then how come so many muslims have been complaining about this attitude that they are faced with?

[OccamsRazor]

What has it being a new thing or not got to do with who is currently the most hated? The length of this happening has no relevance.

I did not mean that this determined who was most hated. I merely pointed this out in reaction to the "Muslims have a lot on their plate" statement, the implication being why would they want conflict with Hindus as well.

Which means it has a lovely 68% who aren't and who may very well be against it.

My point is that 32% is the largest single theological group in the world. They cannot claim to be marginalised as they are a majority.

This of course doesn't include any inter-Christain tension

It doesn't but this is not the argument. Christians cannot complain to the non-Christian community that they are victimised on the basis of inter-Christian tension.

...or people who don't even practice the religion.

It does include non-theists.

Then how come so many muslims have been complaining about this attitude that they are faced with?

When I say that the complaints come from an outspoken minority I mean the complaints against Christians. These complaints against Muslims unfortunately (in western societies) come from a much larger proportion of the population.

[scorpia]

My point is that 32% is the largest single theological group in the world. They cannot claim to be marginalised as they are a majority.

Well it is 32% vs 68%.......... and the 32% is smaller than the 68.........

Not to mention numbers isn't the only factor. I'm suprised you haven't come up with the argument "But then how do you know ALL of that 68% hates?" Why would atheists be sure that whoever is not one is necessarily against them? A smaller population is more likely to stop everyone from hating you than a larger one. And where is that 32%? All together, or spread throughout the world?

It doesn't but this is not the argument. Christians cannot complain to the non-Christian community that they are victimised on the basis of inter-Christian tension.

This isn't about complaining I am just pointing out that even Christians hate Christians.

What is this argument about? Who is the most villianised, or who is the most victimised? Should this argument really be about complaining? If so, okay, it wouldn't be right of me to complain, but also I hardly see what an atheist has to complain about either.

When I say that the complaints come from an outspoken minority I mean the complaints against Christians.

After hearing so many comments against it I seriously doubt it. Why not do a search to see how many webpages are against it for starters?

These complaints against Muslims unfortunately (in western societies) come from a much larger proportion of the population.

So they may be the most hated.

What with comments like;

Islam will remain unassailed in its dogmatic, fanatical, medieval fortress: ossified, totalitarian, and intolerant. It will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality, originality, and truth. ...

[1John2_26]

Even in Israel Christians are not safe.

Though as always the article ends with a reprieve for Islam doing what Islam does.

Holy Land's Christians caught in midst of conflict

By Megan Goldin

A 76-year-old Greek Orthodox monk is beaten up by villagers, his carefully tended olive trees are uprooted and his isolated West Bank monastery is defaced with graffiti depicting nuns being raped.

The land of Jesus's birth is not always an easy place for Christians to live in 2006.

The population of Christians in the Holy Land, particularly in the Palestinian territories, is dwindling as more and more leave for a better life abroad, turning the community into a tiny minority squeezed between Muslims and Jews.

The traditional merchant class, heavily dependent on tourist money, has suffered a recession since a Palestinian uprising began in 2000 and Israel walled off Bethlehem with a barrier.

The Israelis say it is designed to stop suicide bombers and Palestinians call it a land grab.

"(Christians) are suffering from both Islamic extremists and Israeli security concerns," said Canon Andrew White, a former Middle East envoy for the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leader of the Anglican Church.

While incidents as violent as the harassment of the Greek Orthodox monk are rare, life for Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has become more precarious in the past decade.

Caught in the midst of conflict, Churches have sought to help local Christians quietly by not rocking the boat and being careful over criticizing the Palestinian Authority, which might be seen by some as tantamount to supporting Israel.

"The world has got to wake up to the reality of what is going on and not just view it as a political matter, taking one side or another, and realize that Christians are the people caught in between," White told Reuters.

At the time of the rise of Islam in the 7th century, Christians were a majority in the Holy Land. Until a century ago, they made up about 20 percent of the population.

Migration by the educated, middle-class Christian population was precipitated by Arab-Israeli wars in the 20th century and intensified in the past few decades as violence grew.

Today, there are about 50,000 Christians in the Palestinian territories -- about 1.5 percent of the population -- and about 100,000 Christians in Israel -- approximately two percent.

Like all Palestinians, Christians have suffered from Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Some hold leadership positions in the Palestinian Authority, others in militant factions. Most are imbued with a strong sense of Palestinian nationalism.

LIST OF GRIEVANCES

Corruption and lawlessness in the West Bank and Gaza in the past decade have hit Christians harder than others because, as a minority, they have not been able to defend themselves easily.

Exasperated at the failure of the Palestinian Authority to act and the reticence of churches to speak up, a group of Christians in Bethlehem drew up a list of grievances that included theft of their land by Muslims, attacks and desecration of Church property.

The Christians passed the list to Church leaders, saying local authorities had done little to help.

These days Christians face extra uncertainty from the rise of the militant Islamist Hamas group, whose charter calls for the establishment of an Islamic, rather than a secular, state -- a goal that causes many Christians to have misgivings about remaining.

Since the group's election victory in January, however, Hamas officials have vowed to address Christians' grievances, kindling the hope that life might actually improve under the fundamentalist Islamic movement.

There are no accurate figures on the rate of emigration but estimates suggest about 1,000 Christians a year are leaving.

"If the situation continues, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Church of the Nativity will become cold, empty museums," said Samir Qumsieh, a Palestinian-Christian businessman, referring to two of the holiest Christian shrines.

Throughout the Middle East, Christian scholars say, tension is rising between Arab Christians and their Muslim neighbors who see Christians as belonging to a Western World they blame for the conflict in Iraq and other regional troubles.

"Even though Christianity grew in the Middle East, the Christians are increasingly seen as being part of the West and therefore at risk at being targeted because of it," White said.

Besides the harassment of the Greek Orthodox monk in the Bethlehem area, a parish school in the West Bank city of Ramallah has been firebombed twice and a Bible study center received threats to shut down or be burned to the ground.

"From time to time the youths of our parish are attacked by young Muslim men through forcible entry into the convent's courtyard," one Roman Catholic priest told Reuters.

Last year, Christian-Muslim rioting erupted in two West Bank towns and there were confrontations between Druze Arabs and Christians in a Galilee village in Israel.

The incidents had roots in cultural clashes over family honor -- they were sparked by anger over allegations of women being dishonored -- as well as conflicts over land.

They were indicative of the situation faced by the dwindling Christian population in a society where the size and influence of the clan is often the final arbiter in disputes.

Infighting over theology or historical slights waters down Christian influence further.

"We are seen as Christians in the eyes of our Muslim countrymen and Palestinians in the eyes of Israel and the West. We lose on both fronts," said one, speaking anonymously.

HARASSED MONK

In the case of the harassed monk who lives in a monastery with two nuns, the abuses have been going on for over a decade.

"One day as I tended my olive trees, they came and beat me up, very badly. They tore up my clothes. They were ready to kill me. Then they put wire fencing around me and they said we'll put the pig inside and we'll kill him because pigs are not wanted on this land," the monk said in a testimony.

Late last year, graphic drawings depicting nuns being raped were daubed on monastery property.

The Greek Orthodox Church dismissed the matter as a land dispute between neighbors. Another Church source said the Church feared its interests could be hurt if it spoke out.

Land disputes are a particular source of tension between Muslims and Christians in the Bethlehem area. Space is running short in a city largely blockaded by Israel and Muslim families are growing faster than Christian ones.

Christians complain that their appeals to Palestinian courts have fallen on deaf ears, although the land disputes have also sometimes involved Muslim landowners.

"It is not an Islamic-Christian confrontation. Historically, we have lived in peace," Qumsieh said. "They are targeting Christians because we are the weak link."

[Wyvern]

Even in Israel Christians are not safe.

Though as always the article ends with a reprieve for Islam doing what Islam does

Neither are jews or muslims safe either. The article you used even says that attacks against christians are rare. If you want to be safe Israel is not the best place to be, which is probably why the article goes into historical demographics.

[1John2_26]

More proof of the targeting of Christians.

Literally targeting.

Note that this religious group could form a new religion, but they desire the control of Christians that believe the Bible. They have invented yet another term to show Christians in a bad light,

"Spiritual Violence"

Christians targeted where and how it will be most effective. The situation is more like Noah's day than Lot's.

soulforce.org:

Anti-GLBT Watch
The primary source of spiritual violence and misinformation against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender (GLBT) individuals comes from religious leaders and institutions who adhere to a rigid theology and misguided teachings used to condemn and shame non-heterosexuals.

It is the mission of Soulforce to work to end spiritual violence perpetuated by these anti-gay religious policies and teachings. To this end, we have developed denominational teams for the religious institutions below, that are made up of people within each denomination.

It is our hope that by learning about these policies, dialoguing with denominational leaders, and taking action, we can help cut off the suffering at its source. We can no longer sit idly while the majority of churches continue to demean, degrade, and discriminate against us. We can no longer be complicit in our own oppression.

American Baptist Church
Assemblies of God
Episcopal Church in America
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Ex-Gay Ministries and Reparative Therapy
Focus on the Family
Jerry Falwell
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Roman Catholic
Southern Baptist
United Methodist

[melikio]

1John,
The "targeting" of what, needs to be qualified.

If "targeting" means to promote reasonable tolerance and compassion, over legalism, intolerance and unjust characterization, then I'm for it.

You hype your view so much, that it's untrustworthy (at best, unreasonable). Homosexual people ARE NOT going to sit by, while their rights are diminished or removed completely. I wouldn't expect "Christians" to allow it either.

But if some of the ugly things you've said about gays and homosexuality in general is not "countered", people will believe that the mistreatment of homosexual people, is EXACTLY what God WANTS. As it is, I've more than on a few occasions, made it clear to "Christians", that all the attributes of "love" which are representative of Jesus, should be afforded to ALL sinners, not just the ones we "favor" the most.

If you can sit there and imply that homosexual people are NOT often victims of hatred (disguised as "holiness"), then you are contributing to the overall "sin" problem, which mankind (not just gays) has suffered from since the very beginning. Scientists, witches and those who "challenged" the "church", were once silenced; no protest was allowed. That was clearly WRONG, and in many cases that has changed. It's no different with people who are homosexual.

Not that homosexuality must be viewed as "right" or "moral", but that it's not particualrly "right" or "moral" to place the kinds of weight upon homosexual people, which many allow to be perpetrated against them (out of ignorance, bias, fear or abject hatred). In fact, some "Christians" breed the hatred directed toward them, because they cannot fathom the difference between being a "servant" and being the one "in authority". In other cases, the hatred and opposition to Christianity is clearly unwarranted; in all cases it's wrong to hate or attempt to silence others, but we (human beings) have to be honest about the problems we ALL tend to contribute to.

Even so, you are foolish to think that the Spirit of God which can reside in any person, will sit back and allow the kinds of mistreatment which many "Christians" seem to think/believe homosexual people should be willing to tolerate or endure.

If you or others view homosexuality as a sin, so be it. But if you believe that the Creator God is going to allow YOU or anyone else to abuse another human being (and not address it), simply because you don't approve of their sin, you have completely missed the point of grace He revealed so effectively in Jesus Christ.

YOU aren't God, and YOU aren't in charge of other human beings. If you can't do the job via faith, hope and charity... why bother? Leave people alone as God said to do, and LET HIM do the job that only He can do.

There are aspects of Christianity that should have been targeted long ago; and how people treat homosexuals (in God's name) is one of them. Groups like "Soul Force" may seem radical or off-key to some, but they likely serve an important purpose within God's arsenal of ways and means.

No one is ALWAYS "right"; only God is ever THAT "right" all of the time. Do what your conscience dictates, but no human being has perfect understanding of anything, much less the actual will of God for each and every homosexual person (or other sinners; everyone else).

Let God be God, and stop trying to PLAY His role; the world will be better off (I think).

-Mel-

[1John2_26]

1John,
The "targeting" of what, needs to be qualified.

If "targeting" means to promote reasonable tolerance and compassion, over legalism, intolerance and unjust characterization, then I'm for it.

Then you are in favor of reinventing a Christianity that has no basis in sound doctrine. Why not like Mormons you homosexuals start another religion? Why must Christians be labeled and criminalized? Something Satan would do is it not?

You hype your view so much, that it's untrustworthy (at best, unreasonable). Homosexual people ARE NOT going to sit by, while their rights are diminished or removed completely. I wouldn't expect "Christians" to allow it either.

Ex-gay ministries are the only one presented in the New Testament. I would believe that qualifies it as a Christian thing. NOW of course homosexuals are demanding that people see things there way. Jesus believed Sodom and Gomorrah could repent. Read the Godpel. Groups like Soulforce and Rainbow (whatever) see this is some new law being broken invented to criminalize Christians.

But if some of the ugly things you've said about gays and homosexuality in general is not "countered", people will believe that the mistreatment of homosexual people, is EXACTLY what God WANTS.

As can be seen in the New Testament that I do not pervert, no one is allowed to harm another person. In fact as can been seen in 1 Corinthians, "Ex-Gay" ministries are perfectly in line with the New Testament. And of course Jesus defined Christian marriage that only the most "liberal" minds would not agree is man-woman only. Criminalizing Christians is not a Christian thing to do but you have presnted a group of people that feel harrassing Chuches into submission is the Christian thing to do. It violates even your views on not forcing people to believe things.

Satanic hypocrisy? Of course.

As it is, I've more than on a few occasions, made it clear to "Christians", that all the attributes of "love" which are representative of Jesus, should be afforded to ALL sinners, not just the ones we "favor" the most.

Calling homosexuals sinners is not allowed in the Gay Agenda and as can be seen neither in homosexual Christianity. As can be seen Churches and denominations are being targeted and stalked to change or face dire consequences. Souns more like a story in Genesis than the New Testament. I have shown you the list of denominations and human beings in them, being targeted for conversion to the Gay Agenda's version of Christianity. There seems no dissent from it is allowed. You have provided proof of that.

If you can sit there and imply that homosexual people are NOT often victims of hatred (disguised as "holiness"), then you are contributing to the overall "sin" problem, which mankind (not just gays) has suffered from since the very beginning.

If wanting homosexuals not to live in homosexuality is a sin then I see why the disciples were tortured and killed. Everyone of them sought peace with sexual degenerates in Roman times and they were dealt with by being targeted, outlawed and killed. Nero married a man. I wonder what he thought about the Book of Romans. Rent an old movie Quo Vadis and see an interesting example. Why can't you just admit the truth Melikio? The proof is there that Christians are not tolerated by homosexual activism. Christian or political/legislative.

Scientists, witches and those who "challenged" the "church", were once silenced; no protest was allowed. That was clearly WRONG, and in many cases that has changed. It's no different with people who are homosexual.

Christians have not done anything in modern times Melikio. Your mentioning Europe long ago. Look at Europe today for the criminalizing of peaceful Christians. Wanting people to follow the Gospel is a hate crime in Europe. Any mention of disapproval of anal and oral sex and you are guilty of homophobia. I have presented proof of that.

Do you think it is Christian to outlaw Christianity Melikio?

Not that homosexuality must be viewed as "right" or "moral", but that it's not particualrly "right" or "moral" to place the kinds of weight upon homosexual people, which many allow to be perpetrated against them (out of ignorance, bias, fear or abject hatred).

Real evangelism then IS a hate crime to you? Changing a person from a sinner to a saint is homophobia? It seems you are saying it is. And definately the Gay Agenda has declared it is.

In fact, some "Christians" breed the hatred directed toward them, because they cannot fathom the difference between being a "servant" and being the one "in authority".

If the Lord allows sodomy to rule the Church then the days are dark indeed. It appears quite clear that the Apostles tried to pull people about of sexual perversion time and time again in the New Testament. It is also clear that homosexual Christiianity is preaching a different Christ from the reading of the Gospels. Think me silly but I believe the Bible has weight to Christ Jesus since He quoted it often in context and uncorrupted.

In other cases, the hatred and opposition to Christianity is clearly unwarranted; in all cases it's wrong to hate or attempt to silence others, but we (human beings) have to be honest about the problems we ALL tend to contribute to.

How can you support forcing Christians to accept a homosexualized Gospel? How?

Even so, you are foolish to think that the Spirit of God which can reside in any person, will sit back and allow the kinds of mistreatment which many "Christians" seem to think/believe homosexual people should be willing to tolerate or endure.

The Holy Spirit is sanctioning homosexuality and same-sex marriage? It would appear that the Bible is in conflict with both. That is as far as I will go in debating the Holy Spirit and the Gay Agenda to force all Christianity to support homosexuality or suffer.

If you or others view homosexuality as a sin, so be it.

But that is NOT the case. As you can see from even the examples you provide, Christians that believe the Bible are being targeted for conversion to homosexual Christianity. You provided the link to soulforce. They literally list the Christians being targeted.

But if you believe that the Creator God is going to allow YOU or anyone else to abuse another human being (and not address it), simply because you don't approve of their sin, you have completely missed the point of grace He revealed so effectively in Jesus Christ.

Homosexuals are free to start another religion. They seem hell-bent to change Christians. It seems very sodom-like in effect and cause.

YOU aren't God, and YOU aren't in charge of other human beings. If you can't do the job via faith, hope and charity... why bother? Leave people alone as God said to do, and LET HIM do the job that only He can do.

Why won't homosexuals do the same thing? But as can be seen Christians "must change." It is eery.

There are aspects of Christianity that should have been targeted long ago; and how people treat homosexuals (in God's name) is one of them.

Where there you have it. Finally. So much for the New Testament.

Groups like "Soul Force" may seem radical or off-key to some, but they likely serve an important purpose within God's arsenal of ways and means.

Persecuting the Church of Christ. Refining the believers through fire. It was predicted what force would do it. Satan is rising as leader of this world like was predicted.

No one is ALWAYS "right"; only God is ever THAT "right" all of the time. Do what your conscience dictates, but no human being has perfect understanding of anything, much less the actual will of God for each and every homosexual person (or other sinners; everyone else).

Like I said: There goes the New Testament.

Let God be God, and stop trying to PLAY His role; the world will be better off (I think).

I pray to God. I do not change Him for my convenience, political power or sexuality. The homosexual movement against the church hughlighted by places like soulforce changing the truth for a lie. Didn't Jesus say they would come "in His name" to decieve the elect "if that were possible?" I am not afraid Melikio of groups changing the scripture for their own agenda. I am not a Mormon either.