? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?

YahDough · Post by **YahDough** » Mon May 06, 2013 11:06 pm

This is a question addressed only to former Christians who have left the faith.

Why did you become a Christian?
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olavisjo · Post by **olavisjo** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:01 am

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McCulloch wrote: Can you not conceive of being good without some Cosmic Father figure to watch and grant His divine approval?

If all things are permitted then "being good without some Cosmic Father figure to watch and grant His divine approval" would be permitted. And so would being evil without some Cosmic Father figure to watch and grant His divine disapproval.
And we both know that this is not the case.

Ooberman · Post by **Ooberman** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:22 am

olavisjo wrote: .
Ooberman wrote: Isn't that an actual option? That God doesn't exist?
That is not an option. If there were no God, there would be no right or wrong, all things would be permitted. And we both know that is not the case. Think about it.

This isnt necessarily true, for one.

But isnt everything permitted? Dont we have free will to kill 12 million jews, 100 million russians, witches, gays, etc?
Doesnt the fact that people have all kinds of differences in morality prove you are wrong?
Just because you and i dont like killing babies, doesnt mean some Psalm writer of Ancient Jewish leader didnt.
Who is to say who is right? Moses or you?
Appealing to objective morals as if they exist somewhere doesnt help.

I see a world with subjective morals. I could decide anything i want to be right and wrong. You too.
You could decide to follow a religion that sacrifices babies and think its good.
You could follow a religion that has slaughtered babies, witches and gays, and maintains a place of eternal torture and think it's good.
Or you could be a Humanist and place the dignity of humans above all else.
Its your subjective choice.

Just because you choose a human sacrifice/blood religion doesnt make you wrong, ultimately, it just makes it wrong to me.
I dont like that people think killing babies is good.

But thats just me.

YahDough · Post by **YahDough** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:15 pm

Ooberman wrote:
YahDough wrote:
Ooberman wrote:
YahDough wrote:
Ooberman wrote: I said the exact same things to people as you guys are saying to me. Not believing in Jesus seemed to be similar to believing the sky didnt exist.

You can all say "Lord, Lord" all you want, and try to impress me with your level of Faith, but i can tell you no one believed more than I did.

There was no doubt God existed, that Jesus was Lord and present in my life.

I felt all the things you feel now.

For you to claim i didnt would be like you attacking a fellow Christian who likewise claims to believe in Jesus.

I am not alone, either. I have spoken to clergy who also left the Faith. It happens.

It could happen to you.
So what precipitated the world's greatest Christian's (you) fall from belief? Did God do a "Job" on you?

Wow, you are giving yourself and me so much credit! Just because I was a better Christian than you doesn't mean I was the best in the world!
You gave yourself the credit, not me. You said "...but i can tell you no one believed more than I did."
It's a common phrase. Don't be so literal.

Over time I stopped believing. There was no Road to Damascus moment. Just a slow, ebbing away. There was no bad event, or good event.

It just happened slowly; subtly.

Would you like to tell me why I stopped believing?
I could give it a stab.
1. You didn't get the things from God you wanted.
2. Being a Christian wasn't as easy as you had hoped.
3. Having fun and then dying seemed like a better option than working to live forever.
Or, I came to not believe in God because there was no reason to believe.

Isn't that an actual option? That God doesn't exist?
That's a bogus "option" for not believing. That's like saying you stopped believing because you didn't believe. That's what you did, not why you did it.

And besides that there is/was a "reason to believe."

Jn:3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:54 pm

YahDough wrote:
That's a bogus "option" for not believing. That's like saying you stopped believing because you didn't believe. That's what you did, not why you did it.

And besides that there is/was a "reason to believe."

Jn:3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

But, since there is no God, the gospel of John is wrong.

olavisjo · Post by **olavisjo** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:37 am

Ooberman wrote: I see a world with subjective morals. I could decide anything i want to be right and wrong. You too.

The the Holocaust was wrong for you but it was right for the Nazis.

Convince yourself.

YahDough · Post by **YahDough** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:57 am

I am surprised that no former Christian, as yet, has admitted to becoming a Christian because they wanted salvation and peace with God. That's why I became a Christian.

And since I was in the group of former Christians who fell away I can identify with the dynamics that can take place from Christian infancy to hopeful maturation/sanctification in Christ. I think that is why I presented this OP.

I know the grace of God can allow people to get back on track.

help3434 · Post by **help3434** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:54 am

YahDough wrote: I am surprised that no former Christian, as yet, has admitted to becoming a Christian because they wanted salvation and peace with God. That's why I became a Christian.

And since I was in the group of former Christians who fell away I can identify with the dynamics that can take place from Christian infancy to hopeful maturation/sanctification in Christ. I think that is why I presented this OP.

I know the grace of God can allow people to get back on track.

Why did you believe in salvation and peace with God before you were even a Christian? When you believed in salvation and peace with God but were not yet a Christian what were you?

YahDough · Post by **YahDough** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:01 pm

help3434 wrote:
YahDough wrote: I am surprised that no former Christian, as yet, has admitted to becoming a Christian because they wanted salvation and peace with God. That's why I became a Christian.

And since I was in the group of former Christians who fell away I can identify with the dynamics that can take place from Christian infancy to hopeful maturation/sanctification in Christ. I think that is why I presented this OP.

I know the grace of God can allow people to get back on track.

Why did you believe in salvation and peace with God before you were even a Christian?
My hope was/is for "salvation and peace with God". I believed/believe in Christ Jesus because salvation and peace with God are promised through Him.

Rom:5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ooberman · Post by **Ooberman** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:42 am

YahDough wrote: I am surprised that no former Christian, as yet, has admitted to becoming a Christian because they wanted salvation and peace with God. That's why I became a Christian.

And since I was in the group of former Christians who fell away I can identify with the dynamics that can take place from Christian infancy to hopeful maturation/sanctification in Christ. I think that is why I presented this OP.

I know the grace of God can allow people to get back on track.

I certainly wanted that after i became a Christian. But i became a Christian so young that those concepts were meaningless. As a 5 year old or 10 year old you are thinking you need those things because i had loving parents and was a decent kid.

Or, more to my belief, i never had the brain type to want those things like you did.

What you are talking about is god providing happiness for selfish needs. I guess i was never a good enough Christian to want god to do what i wanted him to do.

Were your prayers something like this; "dear god, please give me peace, please give me salvation.... Give me, give me, give me..."?

YahDough · Post by **YahDough** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:40 am

Ooberman wrote:
YahDough wrote: I am surprised that no former Christian, as yet, has admitted to becoming a Christian because they wanted salvation and peace with God. That's why I became a Christian.

And since I was in the group of former Christians who fell away I can identify with the dynamics that can take place from Christian infancy to hopeful maturation/sanctification in Christ. I think that is why I presented this OP.

I know the grace of God can allow people to get back on track.

I certainly wanted that after i became a Christian. But i became a Christian so young that those concepts were meaningless.
Without repentance and believer (Holy Ghost) baptism, Christian maturity will never happen. The process becomes "meaningless" without access to, and desire for, the truth.

What you are talking about is god providing happiness for selfish needs. I guess i was never a good enough Christian to want god to do what i wanted him to do.
Maybe wanting to live could be considered selfish, but do you think wanting peace with God is selfish?
What I am "talking about" is receiving forgiveness for sins and guidance to the way God wants me to live.

Were your prayers something like this; "dear god, please give me peace, please give me salvation.... Give me, give me, give me...
That sounds like it could be a sinners's prayer of repentance or an immature Christian's desire to have more than he needs. My prayers these days are more like.."forgive my (our) trespasses and Thy will be done". Or I will pray for the welfare of others or provide prayer and praise together in worship songs.