Hypothetical exercise.

[10CC]

I would like to propose a hypothetical situation and get your thoughts on it.
Let's suppose that a creator god really does exist and that he really did send down rules for humans to abide by, eg be nice, don't kill, love one another etc. But this god has no intention of providing an afterlife, no reward and no punishment. His rules are designed simply to make the lives of his creation better, while they have the life he created for them.
Would you still worship this god?
Would you still obey this god?
Would you still love this god with all your heart?

[10CC]

I would like to propose a hypothetical situation and get your thoughts on it.
Let's suppose that a creator god really does exist and that he really did send down rules for humans to abide by, eg be nice, don't kill, love one another etc. But this god has no intention of providing an afterlife, no reward and no punishment. His rules are designed simply to make the lives of his creation better, while they have the life he created for them.
Would you still worship this god?
Would you still obey this god?
Would you still love this god with all your heart?

There are, I understand, some religions that do this. Judaism, AFAIK, comes rather close to this ideal of yours. Given this, I think it can be safely stated that there are many very stubborn people who would worship, obey and love this God.

(shrug)

I would. Death isn't scary. Dying is, but death isn't.

Hello Diana, I do hope your treatment is going well and not to painfull or distressing.
Why would you love, worship and obey this god in my hypothetical scenario?

[dianaiad]

I would like to propose a hypothetical situation and get your thoughts on it.
Let's suppose that a creator god really does exist and that he really did send down rules for humans to abide by, eg be nice, don't kill, love one another etc. But this god has no intention of providing an afterlife, no reward and no punishment. His rules are designed simply to make the lives of his creation better, while they have the life he created for them.
Would you still worship this god?
Would you still obey this god?
Would you still love this god with all your heart?

There are, I understand, some religions that do this. Judaism, AFAIK, comes rather close to this ideal of yours. Given this, I think it can be safely stated that there are many very stubborn people who would worship, obey and love this God.

(shrug)

I would. Death isn't scary. Dying is, but death isn't.

Hello Diana, I do hope your treatment is going well and not to painfull or distressing.
Why would you love, worship and obey this god in my hypothetical scenario?

Because of the parameters you gave this deity.

When it comes down to it, whether we hope for another life after this one or not, this one is the one that counts right now, and joy is of the moment.

.....and thank you. 'treatment' is annoying, but not all that miserable. Mostly.

[Bust Nak]

Note that I have never worshiped, obeyed or loved any god, hence the word "still" does not apply.

Would you [strike]still[/strike] worship this god?

Yes, a benevolent creator god alone is worthy of worship.

Would you [strike]still [/strike]obey this god?

Given the hypothetical situation as stated, yes I would.

Would you [strike]still [/strike]love this god with all your heart?

As in love this god exclusively? No.

[10CC]

Note that I have never worshiped, obeyed or loved any god, hence the word "still" does not apply.

Would you [strike]still[/strike] worship this god?

Yes, a benevolent creator god alone is worthy of worship.

Would you [strike]still [/strike]obey this god?

Given the hypothetical situation as stated, yes I would.

Would you [strike]still [/strike]love this god with all your heart?

As in love this god exclusively? No.

Then WHY?

[10CC]

I would like to propose a hypothetical situation and get your thoughts on it.
Let's suppose that a creator god really does exist and that he really did send down rules for humans to abide by, eg be nice, don't kill, love one another etc. But this god has no intention of providing an afterlife, no reward and no punishment. His rules are designed simply to make the lives of his creation better, while they have the life he created for them.
Would you still worship this god?
Would you still obey this god?
Would you still love this god with all your heart?

There are, I understand, some religions that do this. Judaism, AFAIK, comes rather close to this ideal of yours. Given this, I think it can be safely stated that there are many very stubborn people who would worship, obey and love this God.

(shrug)

I would. Death isn't scary. Dying is, but death isn't.

Hello Diana, I do hope your treatment is going well and not to painfull or distressing.
Why would you love, worship and obey this god in my hypothetical scenario?

Because of the parameters you gave this deity.

When it comes down to it, whether we hope for another life after this one or not, this one is the one that counts right now, and joy is of the moment.

.....and thank you. 'treatment' is annoying, but not all that miserable. Mostly.

I'm glad to hear it.
Are you willing to love, obey and worship this god for simply giving you life?
After all he has also given you death.
Do you worship your parents for giving you life?
I imagine you love them but not just for giving you life, there are many reasons for loving our parents.
Do we obey our parents just because they gave us life? Well do we, in fact, always obey our parents?

[10CC]

[Replying to post 55 by 10CC]

Diana I've just noticed that you are online so I have added this post rather than editing the earlier one.
There have been few christians who have replied to this thread, sadly, but of those who have I think that you are the only one who has answered in the affirmative to my questions. Certainly some of the others have been hostile to a god who wouldn't reward them for doing what they are asked to do. Much like a spoiled petulant child would react. It is obvious from your responses all over this forum that you think a lot more about your beliefs than many others do. Can I ask you what you feel about the "believers" who are in it for themselves. The believers who are fearful of eternal retribution and are desperate for eternal reward? You don't have to answer, I just realised that I have been rambling some what

[1213]

Are you seriously asking me what you and your book and your god mean by the word worship?

I just would like to know what you think it means.

[dianaiad]

I would like to propose a hypothetical situation and get your thoughts on it.
Let's suppose that a creator god really does exist and that he really did send down rules for humans to abide by, eg be nice, don't kill, love one another etc. But this god has no intention of providing an afterlife, no reward and no punishment. His rules are designed simply to make the lives of his creation better, while they have the life he created for them.
Would you still worship this god?
Would you still obey this god?
Would you still love this god with all your heart?

There are, I understand, some religions that do this. Judaism, AFAIK, comes rather close to this ideal of yours. Given this, I think it can be safely stated that there are many very stubborn people who would worship, obey and love this God.

(shrug)

I would. Death isn't scary. Dying is, but death isn't.

Hello Diana, I do hope your treatment is going well and not to painfull or distressing.
Why would you love, worship and obey this god in my hypothetical scenario?

Because of the parameters you gave this deity.

When it comes down to it, whether we hope for another life after this one or not, this one is the one that counts right now, and joy is of the moment.

.....and thank you. 'treatment' is annoying, but not all that miserable. Mostly.

I'm glad to hear it.
Are you willing to love, obey and worship this god for simply giving you life?
After all he has also given you death.
Do you worship your parents for giving you life?
I imagine you love them but not just for giving you life, there are many reasons for loving our parents.
Do we obey our parents just because they gave us life? Well do we, in fact, always obey our parents?

No, we don't....but both as a used to be child and as a parent, I have come to realize that when parents are honorable (as you have painted this deity to be) then disobeying them generally ends up making us unhappy.

I didn't make rules for my kids to punish them, or make them miserable. I made rules to keep them safe, to help them get to the best place in the most efficient way.

You know: don't drink, don't smoke, come in before 10 PM on school nights (for the teenagers) don't lie, don't cheat on tests, be honest in your dealings, be kind, I'll not be a bit happy with you if I even get a HINT that you've been a bully in any way, shape or form.....

Stuff like that.

I figure that if God is giving me rules for the purpose of making sure my life on earth is as happy and fulfilling as it can be, then why not obey and love Him?

....and to me, that's what 'worship' is. I have this odd idea of Who God is anyway; not some awe inspiring ....something...that I can never relate to or with, but, well, my Father Who I can actually grow up to be like.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 55 by 10CC]

Diana I've just noticed that you are online so I have added this post rather than editing the earlier one.
There have been few christians who have replied to this thread, sadly, but of those who have I think that you are the only one who has answered in the affirmative to my questions. Certainly some of the others have been hostile to a god who wouldn't reward them for doing what they are asked to do. Much like a spoiled petulant child would react. It is obvious from your responses all over this forum that you think a lot more about your beliefs than many others do. Can I ask you what you feel about the "believers" who are in it for themselves. The believers who are fearful of eternal retribution and are desperate for eternal reward? You don't have to answer, I just realised that I have been rambling some what

I think...the whole idea of our lives here, and what God wants for us, is to build our characters. Not to earn points or gain rewards for putting this file in that drawer, but to become the sort of people who can be depended upon to do 'good.' Every time, simply because good needs doing.

Those who are doing things for the reward are missing the point.

When one trains a service dog to help a blind person, treats are used; rewards are used...but the goal is not to pile up the treats and rewards. The GOAL is to get an animal that will help the blind person, for love of the blind person. There comes a time when the 'reward' of service is the ability to give service; the joy one finds in that.

....and that is the reason the rules and rewards and everything else is around, I think....we are supposed to be making ourselves into the sort of people who do good because good needs doing.

The scriptures actually talk about people who do things in public, for reward: 'verily, I say, they have their reward." If they are doing something for public affirmation, then that's what they are accomplishing; public affirmation. What they AREN'T getting is character building.

Sure, the deeds get done, and the recipients enjoy the results, but the one doing 'em is missing the point.

Now I figure that one can do one of two things about this: throw up one's hands in frustration because one is not getting what one expects from doing good (that is, rewards...) and give it all up as a lost job, or....

I think someone called it 'fake it 'til you make it." That is, keep doing good, even if your motives are lousy, because eventually the light might just dawn.

[micatala]

What's next dianaiad?
Am not going to ask if you are Baldrick of the theist world. To quote black adder would be to say you don't know your ass from your elbow: I would never dare say that. "As a special reward, Baldrick, take a short holiday. Did you enjoy it? Right."

Your drivel is laughable. I caught you a few times now contradicting yourself with your dishonesty.

Moderator Warning


These and other comments along these lines are not civil.

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While the principle of charity is not part of the rules, civility is. Do not accuse others of dishonesty. If you think their arguments are inconsistent, point that out, but do so civilly.



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