Let's cut to the chase. Do you have any evidence?

[no evidence no belief]

I feel like we've been beating around the bush for... 6000 years!

Can you please either provide some evidence for your supernatural beliefs, or admit that you have no evidence?

If you believe there once was a talking donkey (Numbers 22) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe there once was a zombie invasion in Jerusalem (Mat 27) could you please provide evidence?

If you believe in the flying horse (Islam) could you please provide evidence?

Walking on water, virgin births, radioactive spiders who give you superpowers, turning water into wine, turning iron into gold, demons, goblins, ghosts, hobbits, elves, angels, unicorns and Santa.

Can you PLEASE provide evidence?

[Sonofason]

That is amazing. Hmmph, it just never occured to me that a central telomere in human chromosome 2 was even possible. It's just amazing. But it's certainly not evidence of evolution. At least, I don't consider it evidence of evolution. You'll have to do better than that. I don't accept an observation of telomeres in human chromosomes as evidence of anything. Nope, it seems that if I'm going to believe in evolution, I'm going to have to do it on faith, like you.

You reveal the quality of your analysis and openness to truth and reality with every post. All you assert is your unsupported opinion. No, perhaps not even that. All we have is what you claim to be your mere assertions. There is no way to tell if you even believe the nonsense you litter the forum with.

What makes more sense is that you are an atheist who is bent on discrediting serious Christians. Keep it coming.

I had thought that with my persistence that you would at least try to put forth a little evidence that evolution is true, but as I had first surmised, you have no evidence to share that evolution is true. Your belief in evolution is clearly based in a faith in science. Admit it, you have never seen any evidence of evolution. Come on, it's easy. You're half way there.

Considering I have a TON of links from universities discussing the evidence of evolution, I think this claim is sort of disingenuous.

Well, I was not discussing the links and supposed evidences for evolution that you are now claiming to have access to. I was speaking with Danmark who provided links to discussions of evolution, wherein I have found no evidence that evolution is true. Perhaps you might share some of the evidence for evolution that you have, and I will determine whether or not you have any evidence that evolution is true. But to suggest that you have "a ton" of links from universities, as if links had weight, means nothing to me. Provide evidence for evolution. Links from universities don't have weight in this discussion. Evidence for evolution does.

Does your mail server accept fossils and up to what size does it accept? TIA

How exactly does a fossil show that evolution is true?

If your mail server accepts them then I can prove to you that evolution is a FACT.
Does it? After all you are requesting EVIDENCE, I am prepared to supply it. The question is are you prepared to examine it?

Just answer the question.

[10CC]

Just wait until Psalm 83 takes place, when Damascus is lain to waste. This is an event that you will witness in the very near future.

I'll let nenb destroy the rest.
Who is prophesied to destroy Damascus?

Psalm 83
A song, a psalm of Asaph.

1 O God, do not be silent!
Do not ignore us! Do not be inactive, O God!
2 For look, your enemies are making a commotion;
those who hate you are hostile.
3 They carefully plot against your people,
and make plans to harm the ones you cherish.
4 They say, “Come on, let’s annihilate them so they are no longer a nation!
Then the name of Israel will be remembered no more.�
5 Yes, they devise a unified strategy;
they form an alliance against you.
6 It includes the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek,
Philistia and the inhabitants of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has allied with them,
lending its strength to the descendants of Lot. (Selah)
9 Do to them as you did to Midian—
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the Kishon River!
10 They were destroyed at Endor;
their corpses were like manure on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
and all their rulers like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, “Let’s take over the pastures of God!�
13 O my God, make them like dead thistles,
like dead weeds blown away by the wind!
14 Like the fire that burns down the forest,
or the flames that consume the mountainsides,
15 chase them with your gale winds,
and terrify them with your windstorm.
16 Cover their faces with shame,
so they might seek you, O Lord.
17 May they be humiliated and continually terrified!
May they die in shame!
18 Then they will know that you alone are the Lord,
the sovereign king over all the earth.

[Danmark]

I did not make any false claims. I was putting forth a proposition. I was simply restating what I thought you were trying to say. I did not quote you when I said what I said. And of course, I will interpret what you say any way I choose to interpret it. If I quoted you incorrectly, you have every right to ask that I not make a false claim about what you write. But I did not quote you. But I am most certainly free to draw my own conclusions about what you write. And I intend on doing so in the future, that is of course when ever I feel compelled to do so.

Yes you made a false claim about what I wrote and you know it. Your dodge is that you the reader get to misinterpret what the writer writes, even when the writer tells you you've got it wrong. Dodge 2 is when you say because it was not in 'quotes' when you misstated what I wrote. That this is not mere mistake is confessed by you when you say you will continue to misinterpret the written word to suit your purposes.

This is probably what you do when you read the Bible as well. You willfully misinterpret it for your own purposes just like you do with posts here; just like you willfully misinterpret the word 'evidence' and the mountain of evidence you've been presented with. Your disingenuousness is transparent.

[10CC]

That is amazing. Hmmph, it just never occured to me that a central telomere in human chromosome 2 was even possible. It's just amazing. But it's certainly not evidence of evolution. At least, I don't consider it evidence of evolution. You'll have to do better than that. I don't accept an observation of telomeres in human chromosomes as evidence of anything. Nope, it seems that if I'm going to believe in evolution, I'm going to have to do it on faith, like you.

You reveal the quality of your analysis and openness to truth and reality with every post. All you assert is your unsupported opinion. No, perhaps not even that. All we have is what you claim to be your mere assertions. There is no way to tell if you even believe the nonsense you litter the forum with.

What makes more sense is that you are an atheist who is bent on discrediting serious Christians. Keep it coming.

I had thought that with my persistence that you would at least try to put forth a little evidence that evolution is true, but as I had first surmised, you have no evidence to share that evolution is true. Your belief in evolution is clearly based in a faith in science. Admit it, you have never seen any evidence of evolution. Come on, it's easy. You're half way there.

Considering I have a TON of links from universities discussing the evidence of evolution, I think this claim is sort of disingenuous.

Well, I was not discussing the links and supposed evidences for evolution that you are now claiming to have access to. I was speaking with Danmark who provided links to discussions of evolution, wherein I have found no evidence that evolution is true. Perhaps you might share some of the evidence for evolution that you have, and I will determine whether or not you have any evidence that evolution is true. But to suggest that you have "a ton" of links from universities, as if links had weight, means nothing to me. Provide evidence for evolution. Links from universities don't have weight in this discussion. Evidence for evolution does.

Does your mail server accept fossils and up to what size does it accept? TIA

How exactly does a fossil show that evolution is true?

If your mail server accepts them then I can prove to you that evolution is a FACT.
Does it? After all you are requesting EVIDENCE, I am prepared to supply it. The question is are you prepared to examine it?

Just answer the question.

I'm sorry young fellow, but you have not answered my question and as a result I am under no obligation to answer yours in the spirit of quid pro quo.

[Danmark]

Perhaps you might share some of the evidence for evolution that you have, and I will determine whether or not you have any evidence that evolution is true. But to suggest that you have "a ton" of links from universities, as if links had weight, means nothing to me. Provide evidence for evolution. Links from universities don't have weight in this discussion. Evidence for evolution does.

No one should care what YOUR consideration is. Your biases are clearly laid out. A mountain of evidence has been laid out for you already. You reject it. That's your prerogative. You've announced that altho' you consider the theory reasonable [it's not just reasonable, it is a fact as well proven as gravity] you dismiss all the evidence as unconvincing. Answer Farwanderer's pertinent question: What evidence would satisfy you of the validity of evolution? A failure to answer that question is synonymous with your answer: "Nothing. No amount of evidence will convince me." You've tried to turn an honest argument about evidence into a game of denial so you can claim your faith in a fairy tale is at the same level as the reliability of science. It hasn't worked.

Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin

[Sonofason]

Just wait until Psalm 83 takes place, when Damascus is lain to waste. This is an event that you will witness in the very near future.

I'll let nenb destroy the rest.
Who is prophesied to destroy Damascus?

Psalm 83
A song, a psalm of Asaph.

1 O God, do not be silent!
Do not ignore us! Do not be inactive, O God!
2 For look, your enemies are making a commotion;
those who hate you are hostile.
3 They carefully plot against your people,
and make plans to harm the ones you cherish.
4 They say, “Come on, let’s annihilate them so they are no longer a nation!
Then the name of Israel will be remembered no more.�
5 Yes, they devise a unified strategy;
they form an alliance against you.
6 It includes the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek,
Philistia and the inhabitants of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has allied with them,
lending its strength to the descendants of Lot. (Selah)
9 Do to them as you did to Midian—
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the Kishon River!
10 They were destroyed at Endor;
their corpses were like manure on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
and all their rulers like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, “Let’s take over the pastures of God!�
13 O my God, make them like dead thistles,
like dead weeds blown away by the wind!
14 Like the fire that burns down the forest,
or the flames that consume the mountainsides,
15 chase them with your gale winds,
and terrify them with your windstorm.
16 Cover their faces with shame,
so they might seek you, O Lord.
17 May they be humiliated and continually terrified!
May they die in shame!
18 Then they will know that you alone are the Lord,
the sovereign king over all the earth.

You're right, Psalm 83 does not describe the destruction of Damascus, but only sets the stage for the destruction that will take place as described in the book of Isaiah.

"The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." (Isaiah 17:1)

[Sonofason]

That is amazing. Hmmph, it just never occured to me that a central telomere in human chromosome 2 was even possible. It's just amazing. But it's certainly not evidence of evolution. At least, I don't consider it evidence of evolution. You'll have to do better than that. I don't accept an observation of telomeres in human chromosomes as evidence of anything. Nope, it seems that if I'm going to believe in evolution, I'm going to have to do it on faith, like you.

You reveal the quality of your analysis and openness to truth and reality with every post. All you assert is your unsupported opinion. No, perhaps not even that. All we have is what you claim to be your mere assertions. There is no way to tell if you even believe the nonsense you litter the forum with.

What makes more sense is that you are an atheist who is bent on discrediting serious Christians. Keep it coming.

I had thought that with my persistence that you would at least try to put forth a little evidence that evolution is true, but as I had first surmised, you have no evidence to share that evolution is true. Your belief in evolution is clearly based in a faith in science. Admit it, you have never seen any evidence of evolution. Come on, it's easy. You're half way there.

Considering I have a TON of links from universities discussing the evidence of evolution, I think this claim is sort of disingenuous.

Well, I was not discussing the links and supposed evidences for evolution that you are now claiming to have access to. I was speaking with Danmark who provided links to discussions of evolution, wherein I have found no evidence that evolution is true. Perhaps you might share some of the evidence for evolution that you have, and I will determine whether or not you have any evidence that evolution is true. But to suggest that you have "a ton" of links from universities, as if links had weight, means nothing to me. Provide evidence for evolution. Links from universities don't have weight in this discussion. Evidence for evolution does.

Give me your mailing address. I will send you a fossil in the mail. I could post a photo of it here, but you'd say that photos of fossils are not evidence of evolution.

Indeed, a photograph of a fossil is not evidence of evolution, unless of course the photograph contains information that corroborates the claim and shows evolution taking place, or that it has taken place. Correlations between the photograph and the evolutionary process must be apparent for it to be considered evidence of evolution.

[instantc]

The appropriate standard of evidence is not written in the sky. This guy has all the right to consider your evidence of evolution insufficient, irrational as it may be, just as you may or may not accept his first hand assurances of God's existence.

[no evidence no belief]

What do you do with all the prophesies of the Bible? Do you not recognize that many have already come true?

This is great! You believe a prophecy came true! This is EVIDENCE of the supernatural, AND it's an opportunity to make $100.

All you have to do is present the single most convincing prophecy.

In fact, why don't you present it on this board here

"Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession: Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people: Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about; Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey. Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD."
Ezekial 36:1-11)

Israel has indeed been replanted. The nation of Israel has been reborn, out of it's desolation. It happened in 1948.

"We shall overcome, we shall overcome,
We shall overcome someday;
Oh, deep in my heart, I do believe,
We shall overcome someday."

These are the lyrics of a key anthem of the African American civil rights movement. It's a prophecy that the african american community will be able to overcome the segregation and discrimination. The prophecy became true! We now have a black president!

Native americans, as they were being slowly defeated by european invaders, sang war songs about defeating the white devils.

Nazi propaganda included the publishing of guarantees that the Nazi movement will conquer the world.

When Mike Tyson was arrested, he swore that he'd get out and regain his world championship belt.

Osama Bin Laden made the prophecy that America would fall.

My cousin Steve said he would defeat cancer, and he did!

My friend Tommaso said he would defeat cancer and he didn't.

Whenever people are struggling, whenever they are defending themselves against an invasion, or carrying out an invasion themselves, whenever they are at war, whenever they are in danger, whenever they are suffering, whenever they are losing... THEY HOPE THAT THINGS GET BETTER FOR THEM. That's just human nature.

They express that hope that things get better by writing songs, by writing poetry, by publishing propaganda, by simply declaring they will be back, by making videos, by saying they will beat cancer, etc.

The writings about israel being reborn, just like the civil rights chants, and the slaves' spirituals, and the native american chants, and the nazi propaganda, and Mike Tyson promising to make a comeback, and Al-quaeda saying America will fall, and my loved ones saying they will beat cancer, etc, are all examples of people expressing their hope that in the future things will be the way they want them to be.

Now, sometimes people will express their hope that things go their way, and as luck would have it, things do work out for them, other times it doesn't work out. For Israel, african-americans, Mike Tyson and my cousin Steve things worked out as they hoped/predicted, for the native americans, the nazis, Al-Quaeda and my friend Steve, things didn't work out as they had hoped/predicted.

There is absolutely nothing supernatural, nothing mysterious, nothing even remotely surprising about the Israelites, just like everybody else in the world who is struggling, expressing their hope that things would get better.

That's what people do. I would be shocked if, given their suffering and stuggles, the israelites had NOT expressed their hope for victory and rebirth.


So, no. That Bible passage isn't evidence of the supernatural. It's evidence of the completely natural human tendency to express their hope that things get better when they're struggling.

Do you have any other "prophecies" you would like me to demolish?

[no evidence no belief]

The appropriate standard of evidence is not written in the sky. This guy has all the right to consider your evidence of evolution insufficient, irrational as it may be, just as you may or may not accept his first hand assurances of God's existence.

He has the right to consider evidence of evolution insufficient once he's EXAMINED IT.

He refuses to. He has the right to refuse to examine the evidence. But he doesn't have the right to deem the evidence is insufficient if he refuses to examine it.