Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[arian]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

I agree! Evolution should be accepted straight in God being the Grand Architect, the Intelligent Designer. Evolution is by God's hand to humanity.

Your scenario seems possible (a god being behind it).
It is also un-needed (evolution can happen without a god behind it).

Good for you Clownboat, because God was NOT behind the Evolution Theory. The Evolution theory stands only because of its creators; Big-bang Evolutionists, and without them the theory of evolution would not exist.

How are you Clownboat? .. hey you really filled out from the last time we debated.

[10CC]

I see a car. Did someone create this car? Or is man twiddling his fingers in this, making every bolt, every panel, every electronic circuit, wiring, displays and constantly tuning it to get it to run?

Oh yes, .. that's a car. Someone had to build a car, .. besides, what is a car compared to the genetic/atomic make up of a, .. oh let's say; a lily of the field? Right? How about a man, his brain and his mind?
So what is the answer, ..that the car is easy, so we man had to build it it, it's not like it evolved over billions of years or something, Right?

...

Can you prove to us that the cars didn't evolve? I mean rocks and dirt evolved through billions of years of gasses reacting with each other, from which water and the primordial soup evolved and created single celled bacterium, which in turn over a long time inadvertently evolved ape man, right? So why didn't evolution create some simple things like cars and planes?

I mean fine, I grew up in Detroit so I know we man make cars, .. but I have seen cars that I don't remember making, .. could these have evolved over the billions of years along with rocks and the ores we have in rocks? If not, .. why not?

Wow, are you for real?

There's a big difference between metal machines we design and build, and biological organic life which evolves by natural selection. Cars aren't alive. They don't reproduce. They're not made of the same thing. So they don't evolve. We have to build them the way we want them. Do you understand?

Of course I'm for real, .. just as real as you are.

But I do understand, we are made of dust which is non-biological life that was meticulously designed and built from dirt taken from the earth, and built the way the Creator want us.

Now the question is; "Do you understand?"

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

[arian]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

I agree! Evolution should be accepted straight in God being the Grand Architect, the Intelligent Designer. Evolution is by God's hand to humanity.

As our explanation for the diversity and form of life we can either accept:
A: Evolution
B: Evolution and God

Occam's razor suggests we accept the one that requires the fewest assumptions.

I pick C then, it has absolutely no assumptions;

C: Creator

[Star]

Well according to Evolution, single celled bacteria don't change into humans, monkeys don't change into humans, .. so it must be single celled humans that evolved into humans, .. right?

I don't understand. Can you rephrase this to make sense?

"Evolution" says what exactly? Have you personally asked it?

Well, either millions or billions of years, does it really matter? I mean there was no scientists to observe and record any of this, so my millions is as legitimate as your billions, .. wouldn't you say?

No. One-billion is 1000X greater than one-million. Modern dating techniques can be accurate within 1%. Over 3.4-billion-years, that can be only+/- 34-million-years, which is relatively insignificant.

I just don't know, .. how can anyone reading this call the stories in the Bible old tribal myths?

Scientists observe the world around us, so which scientist claims that they observed the earth when there were no plants or algae? I would love to read their reports.

I noticed you underlined the part about the skies being cloudy. How do you equate cloudy and grey skies to stale and muddy water?

Scientists don't need to observe anything directly. Life leaves evidence behind, everywhere it goes. Scientists collect that evidence make sense of it. It's complicated and you're obviously not familiar with any of it. If you'd love to read their "reports" then I encourage you to do so.

[Star]

I must ask, what are you talking about? You did not ask a question here. Do you not recognize your own comment?
You said, "Prove we're not trapped in a virtual universe like the Matrix."

I asked why I would try to prove such a thing. It sounds rather reasonable. Are you referring to something else? If you are, then I suggest you quote the appropriate conversation. Many questions are raised on this forum. Am I supposed to be guessing which ones you are referring to? Do you think I'm psychic?

I mistakenly referred to it as a rhetorical question, when really, it was framed as a rhetorical challenge. Please accept my apology.

My point is still the same. And, you still miss my point.

Prove there is only one god.

Actually, can you prove there is only one god? (Now it's in question form.)

[arian]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

I agree! Evolution should be accepted straight in God being the Grand Architect, the Intelligent Designer. Evolution is by God's hand to humanity.

We don't know that.

We only know that natural selection is the primary mover and shaker of biological evolution, so that kind of precludes intelligent design, doesn't it?

I find it much more reasonable when theists (or deists) claim god/s initiated the Big Bang with forces and laws tweaked for galaxies, stars, planets, and moons, so life can eventually evolve on its own. There's absolutely no evidence for it, but at least there's no evidence against it. As Einstein used to say, the notion of a personal god is childlike and silly.

I agree, a personal god or even gods IS silly. They have one in the garden to make the tomatoes grow bigger, one in front of the house to protect the house, some in their wallet to buy toys with, and the coolest one that tweaked the string just so to create a Big-bang which would have created the universe and eventually biological life ANYWAYS. Stuff like that happens all the time. Isn't that why we see a brand new 747 Jetliner sitting in the junk yard every time a tornado blows through there?

Who needs them gods when we have chaotic odds on our side, a trillion die with trillion sides numbered one to a trillion, and chaos throws all 666's on all the dice on the first try. This is why a Creator is not needed, because Evolution happens, things just get better and improve over time. .. Well not always, sometimes chaos needs a little help like this Agenda 21. Its a little extra chaotic boost for chaos like when she becomes unsustainable.

[Star]

I agree, a personal god or even gods IS silly. They have one in the garden to make the tomatoes grow bigger, one in front of the house to protect the house, some in their wallet to buy toys with, and the coolest one that tweaked the string just so to create a Big-bang which would have created the universe and eventually biological life ANYWAYS. Stuff like that happens all the time. Isn't that why we see a brand new 747 Jetliner sitting in the junk yard every time a tornado blows through there?

Who needs them gods when we have chaotic odds on our side, a trillion die with trillion sides numbered one to a trillion, and chaos throws all 666's on all the dice on the first try. This is why a Creator is not needed, because Evolution happens, things just get better and improve over time. .. Well not always, sometimes chaos needs a little help like this Agenda 21. Its a little extra chaotic boost for chaos like when she becomes unsustainable.

I can't believe you actually spent time writing this.

Are you interested in debating, or are you just going to be silly?

[Clownboat]

Answer the questions. I have already given support for my claim of understanding biological evolution. I even provided a sufficient definition for it. Now answer the questions I asked. If you don't, we are at an impasse, and all your further comments will in fact be ignored.

Animals domesticated by artificial selection, such as the various dog breeds, is one example. No god was necessary to make a poodle.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpag ... eeding-434

Another example is bacteria evolving antibiotic resistance by natural selection.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Saf ... 134455.htm

Can you please prove that an act of God, whether prior or present is not responsible for the human capability of causing the domestication of animals?

Can you please now provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the development of poodles?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the evolution of bacteria by natural selection?

Can you please provide evidence that an act of God is not responsible for the existence of the process we call natural selection?

With questions like this, I wonder if there should be a forum ban to stop specific users from participating in the "Science" sub forum.

I can only assume that Sonofason just doesn't get it, that this argument could be made by inserting just about any concept. Yet, he finds it useful here, in the Science sub forum of all places!

[Clownboat]

In essence, Clownboat was stating that he doesn't know if God is necessary for evolution to take place. And neither do you. And neither do I.

You are either lying or misunderstood, I'm just not sure.
I very specifically said that a god is un-needed for evolution to happen!

In no way can stating a god is un-needed mean that I don't know if a god is necessary. All it means is that one is not needed, full stop.

A god causing it is just as likely and just as un-needed as fairy farts causing it. If you want to take that to mean that I'm not sure if fairy farts caused evolution, that is on you.

Fairy farts and a god are both un-needed for evolution to happen. Give me a reason to believe that fairy farts or a god causes it and I am all ears, because it seems that evolution will happen without either of them being involved.

[keithprosser3]

I can only assume that Sonofason just doesn't get it, that this argument could be made by inserting just about any concept. Yet, he finds it useful here, in the Science sub forum of all places!

Well, we can all see it and draw our own conclusion from it. He ain't foolin' no-one but hisself, I reckin'.

If I am wrong and somebody out there thinks SonofaSon is doing anything except flogging a dead horse, well - I'll be surprised.