Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[jamesjah]

This weeks New Scientist has a leading article the origins of intelligence, can it be said that evolution is based on a lack of knowledge of the reality of life, so a person who promotes evolution cannot claim to have any knowledge of the complexity of creation?

So is it people that have no knowledge of things like metamorphoses, or the revolving flagellum cell, that think evolution is simple?

So that what we have in reality is man starting off intelligent recognising that there had to be a creator and ending up with todays un-intelligent thinking that self assembly is the way to think?

[arian]

The only problem is that there is no observable scientific evidence for any of this. Dogs still remain dogs, horses still remain horses and man still remains man from all the scientific evidence we have so far.

And reptiles remain reptiles?

Cool, .. they even made it look like it's running, lol. Can we get this at our local 'Rocks Store' hand carved in sand stone made in India, and the cheaper plastic prints for 99c at the 99c Store? Geico should include it in their commercials, "Look, it's a picture of my ancestor, .. fifteen minutes could save you $200 or more on car insurance!"

Wow, are you serious?

It's not running. It died in that position.

Sorry, but it looks like a Flintstones snapshot. I could make one like that too, the whole lizard, to crawling monkey, to full standing on two legs human, on the same stone. But even that would not be proof of evolution. Well maybe to religious folk, they worship anything that resembles their gods.

I'm sure Evolutionists carry this show-piece around like Catholics do of a clay-image of Mother Marry, .. or the Shroud of Turin. It's all real if you believe it's real.

[arian]

We could say the same thing about cars and planes evolving by saying what happened over billions of years going from today, going back through time. The only problem is that there is no observable scientific evidence for any of this. Dogs still remain dogs, horses still remain horses and man still remains man from all the scientific evidence we have so far.

...

If a monkey was always a monkey, and man did not evolve from a monkey, or a zebra, then in your evolutions primordial soup there had to be single-celled monkeys, zebra and men which evolved over billions of years to the advanced state they are now.

Do you accept that the primordial soup contained the DNA in single-celled bacteria of every individual living biological creature that we have now? Male-female Zebras, monkeys, lizards, giraffe's, men, women, birds, fish, .. etc?

If not, then you believe that monkeys turn into men over time, only it takes a copious amount of websites to brainwash people into believing this.

Yes, it is a biological fact that each organism's parent is the same species. I am human, my parents were human. No mater how many times creationists say otherwise, this is a principle in biology fundamental to the understanding of evolution. They ask, if every human's parents were also human, then how can evolution be true. Wouldn't there have to be some generation where a non-human primate gave rise to a human?

I can answer this question with an illustration. It is a linguistic fact that each speaker of a language learns his or her language from other speakers of that language. People who attempt to invent new languages are notoriously unsuccessful at getting them to catch on.

Hello McCulloch!
Why couldn't they catch on? My father did! He was Hungarian studying German during WWII, but the war ended so he ran to Yugoslavia. There he started to learn a little Croatian, but then we went to Austria from where we were to come to the US. So there he studied English from a book. When we got here to the US my dad spoke a completely new language, and if you spoke fluent Hungarian, German, Croatian and English you would have understood him, because as far as I know he was the only man that spoke fluent 'mutt', the Hungarian/German/Croatian/English Language. We tried to tell him that the Americans can't understand him, but we couldn't convince him. So he stuck to his 'mutt' language. But he was still a Hungarian, and a human.

I learned English from my parents. They learned English from their parents. And so on back until we get to some of my ancestors who learned English as a second language by the conquering English who pressured them into abandoning their native Gàidhlig. And whoever it was who taught them English learned English from other English speakers. And yet, before the fifth century, there were no English speakers anywhere in the world.

Maybe there were, only they didn't write much?

If in coming to America we would have crash landed on some remote island, I'm sure my dad would have taught us his 'mutt' language, .. you know, just in case the Germans, or the English or the Croatians rescued us? But I am sure learning 'mutt' would not have changed us to another species. Humans remain humans and monkeys remain monkeys even if I learned to screech like a monkey, eat what monkeys eat, and live where monkeys live. I may learn how to swing from tree to tree more like a monkey, not shaving become more hairier like a monkey, and if Jane came along and we got married and had a lot of kids amongst the monkeys, no matter how many generations, we would still be humans and the monkeys would remain monkeys who eat their own poop sometimes.

Now you may make yourself believe that you're an evolved monkey, and even kill your fellow man as if they were animals, but that don't change the fact that you are a human with a mind created in Gods own image.

Do you think that there was one generation of speakers who arbitrarily decided to use a brand new language? No, it did not happen that way. Languages evolve. With each generation, there are subtle changes in vocabulary and grammar, none so great that the language is fundamentally changed in even a few generations. But over several hundred years the language known as Ænglisc, virtually unintelligible to us, has become English. Yet at no time did the principle that everyone who learns a language learns it from another person who speaks the same language.

Nature didn't change the languages, we did by mixing them all up. I don't care how many Hungarians you interbreed, they will remain Hungarian. If you cross breed a Hungarian with a Croatian, their kids will be Hungarian/Croatians, but still human. Do this with a hundred different nationalities for over thousands of generations and you will get all kinds of different mixed languages, .. but they will still remain human.

In the same way, non-human primates, over many succeeding generations, did eventually turn into humans.

Never could happen, .. only in fairytales.
Non humans, .. or animals remain animals after their own kind. I mean, .. have you ever heard of a group of monkeys speak Elephant-ish? Exactly. Because animals don't talk to other species, so no matter how many billions of years pass, the monkey will chatter monkey and the zebras will keep talking zebra. As for us humans, we can imitate all the animal voices within minutes, we don't have to wait many succeeding generations.

Thanks my old friend McCulloch, I missed you lately. Have a safe and happy holiday!

[jamesjah]

[Replying to post 281 by arian]

Scientists have not yet learned enough to realise how foolish their reasoning is now have they?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 282 by jamesjah]

how does one determine ones reasoning is foolish when one does not posses it?

[jamesjah]

[Replying to post 283 by DanieltheDragon]


This is the problem, one has to be really intelligent to know how foolish one is, it is only the foolish that think they are wise, odd that is it not?

[arian]

[Replying to post 281 by arian]

Scientists have not yet learned enough to realise how foolish their reasoning is now have they?

That's just it my friend, these are NOT scientists but pose as scientists. I do not consider Evolutionists and Big-bang theorists as scientists. In science, observing a fossil is observing a fossil. Conclusion: "We have a fossil."

But for the science impostors, .. these Evolutionists, after observing a fossil they'll write thousands of billion year old un-observed fairytales about it, and force it on the population as part of science, .. don't you agree? We have to keep science and tribal religious fairytales separate, otherwise we end up being trapped in their religious doctrines.

God bless you Jamesjoh!

[McCulloch]

Why couldn't they catch on? My father did! He was Hungarian studying German during WWII, but the war ended so he ran to Yugoslavia. There he started to learn a little Croatian, but then we went to Austria from where we were to come to the US. So there he studied English from a book. When we got here to the US my dad spoke a completely new language, and if you spoke fluent Hungarian, German, Croatian and English you would have understood him, because as far as I know he was the only man that spoke fluent 'mutt', the Hungarian/German/Croatian/English Language. We tried to tell him that the Americans can't understand him, but we couldn't convince him. So he stuck to his 'mutt' language. But he was still a Hungarian, and a human.

I'm not quite sure what this story is supposed to indicate.

And yet, before the fifth century, there were no English speakers anywhere in the world.

Maybe there were, only they didn't write much?

That would be a conclusion contrary to the available evidence. We have written evidence about the languages that were precursors to English.

u scylun hergan hefaenricaes uard
metudæs maecti end his modgidanc
uerc uuldurfadur swe he uundra gihwaes
eci dryctin or astelidæ
he aerist scop aelda barnum
heben til hrofe haleg scepen.
tha middungeard moncynnæs uard
eci dryctin æfter tiadæ
firum foldu frea allmectig

Evolution deniers, I expect, would after looking at this would conclude that it is not English.

And it was don aftirward, and Jhesu made iorney by citees and castelis, prechinge and euangelysinge þe rewme of God

It does not seem too much like English, but the resemblance is clearer. How much can change in a mere 700 years!

And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God

If in coming to America we would have crash landed on some remote island, I'm sure my dad would have taught us his 'mutt' language, .. you know, just in case the Germans, or the English or the Croatians rescued us? But I am sure learning 'mutt' would not have changed us to another species. Humans remain humans and monkeys remain monkeys even if I learned to screech like a monkey, eat what monkeys eat, and live where monkeys live. I may learn how to swing from tree to tree more like a monkey, not shaving become more hairier like a monkey, and if Jane came along and we got married and had a lot of kids amongst the monkeys, no matter how many generations, we would still be humans and the monkeys would remain monkeys who eat their own poop sometimes.

Yes, that is true. And isn't that the point I am trying to make. One rule in biology is that, as the writer of Genesis put it, each reproduces after its own kind. Without that rule, evolution would make no sense. We are all of the same biological species as our parents. Just as every one of my linguistic ancestors spoke the same language as the person who taught us to speak. But over time, small changes occur. And over very long periods of time, small changes accumulate into large one.

Now you may make yourself believe that you're an evolved monkey, and even kill your fellow man as if they were animals, but that don't change the fact that you are a human with a mind created in Gods own image.

Firstly, humans are animals. We are a multicellular form of life that are not plants. Right?
Also, humans are the only animals known to kill their own species over ideological differences, so I don't understand the reference to human killing humans being compared to other animals.
Now you may make yourself believe that you're a special creation of God, but that does not change the fact that humans are animals, vertebrates, mammals, primates and yes apes. There is no evidence whatsoever that the human mind has been created in God's own image.

[otseng]

[Replying to post 281 by arian]

Scientists have not yet learned enough to realise how foolish their reasoning is now have they?

[Replying to post 282 by jamesjah]

how does one determine ones reasoning is foolish when one does not posses it?

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[Nilloc James]

[Replying to post 281 by arian]

Scientists have not yet learned enough to realise how foolish their reasoning is now have they?

That's just it my friend, these are NOT scientists but pose as scientists. I do not consider Evolutionists and Big-bang theorists as scientists. In science, observing a fossil is observing a fossil. Conclusion: "We have a fossil."

But for the science impostors, .. these Evolutionists, after observing a fossil they'll write thousands of billion year old un-observed fairytales about it, and force it on the population as part of science, .. don't you agree? We have to keep science and tribal religious fairytales separate, otherwise we end up being trapped in their religious doctrines.

God bless you Jamesjoh!

Implicit in this post is a misrepresentation of theory.

Evolution (as a theory) explains observations. Like all theories it is not directly proven.

The strength of a theory is its ability to explain facts efficiently and directly. Evolution has great explanatory power and requires very few assumptions.