Dad, mom ...I'm ...um, I'm gay

[KCKID]

The title/subtitle says it all. This scenario must have occurred many, many times. We've all heard, read or seen instances of this and the types of responses that parents of their gay children have given. While we only seem to have a handful of vocal anti-gay Christians on this forum, I'm genuinely curious as to how they would react if their son or daughter came to them and told them that they're gay. Others, feel free to offer your input.

The question again: How would you (a Christian) respond to your son or your daughter coming out to you that they are gay? Without revealing any more than you need to, has this actually happened to any of you ...either as a gay son/daughter or as a parent?

[dianaiad]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

I can't think of any other activity that gays would engage in that is exclusive to homosexuals as a 'lifestyle.'

Oh, there are lots of stereotypes, but I don't buy into the stereotypes. There's a very gay (as in, he was very clear about this when he was hired) high school varsity coach who's about as tough as they come here in town, and the guy who designs the cheerleader outfits for the local college makes Don Juan look like a priest. We're all fine with the coach and the boys, not so fine with allowing the designer free access to the girls.

Here's a clue. I have dozens of personal friends that are Gay and yet amazingly, they are in committed relationships. Also, I have several friends who are promiscuous but not Gay. If you're going to insist on demonizing an entire class of people,

Ah, but I"m not. YOU are doing that. I'm the one pointing out that there is a DIFFERENCE between 'lifestyle' and 'preference.' You are the one insisting that they are the same, as if preference for one's own sex removes one's freedom of choice about what is done about it.

you should at least know what you are talking about. Promiscuity is not a defining characteristic of the Gay Lifestyle, and you should apologize for that unsupported and pejorative characterization.

.....and what other characteristic would there be, sir, that would be solely the purview of gays? What about a committed relationship with someone's own sex is different from a committed relationship with someone of the opposite sex, if the couple involved have no religious or moral problem with it?

What, you think that only gays can be (insert something here), or that IF a gay person is (insert something here) that doing that suddenly becomes the 'gay lifestyle,' as if only gays are allowed to do that (insert whatever here)?

Got news. Most male ballet (and other) dancers are heterosexual. Most male clothing designers are heterosexual. Not every man who dresses in women's clothing is gay. In fact, most aren't. There is NOTHING so peculiar to the 'gay lifestyle' that participating in that behavior makes it the 'gay lifestyle,' except sex.

So, you tell me: what IS the 'defining characteristic of the gay lifestyle," the one that says 'hey, I"m gaaaay, and if you do this, you are gay too?" Because, sir, there is absolutely no activity that gays do, other than have sexual intercourse with members of their own sex, that is engaged in only by gays, and is thus a 'defining characteristic of the gay lifestyle."

What I"m saying is this: gay folks are folks. The life choices they make in any other aspect of their lives are choices that can be, and are, made by heterosexuals, bisexuals, celibates....you know, other folks. The gay artist is living an 'artistic lifestyle' when he paints, he is not living the 'gay lifestyle.' The gay businessman is living a 'business lifestyle' when he works, he's not living a 'gay lifestyle' any more than the guy one office over, doing the same thing he is, is living the 'heterosexual lifestyle' when he deals with unhappy customers.

Also, 'innate' is not 'biologically driven'. Your pithy story about the DAR is a non sequitur to the subject of choice in regards to sexuality. When you admit that you could 'choose' to have a lesbian relationship because sexual preference is just a 'choice', then I'll have some respect for that argument.

Now, why do you think that gays are any more 'biologically driven' to have sex with members of their own sex than heterosexuals are driven to have sex with the opposite one? You seem to be saying that being gay is somehow more than a preference, it is an obsession and a compulsion. Personally, I have more respect for them than that; your attitude is why it's difficult for gays to get, and keep, jobs working with children and the youth, why that gay football coach is an anomaly (and why the community has had to stand up and defend him more than once), and why Archie Bunkeresque folks are afraid of 'em...because there is this attitude, which you seem to share (and it surprises me, frankly) that being heterosexual is innate..a preference, but that homosexuality is 'biologically driven,' like salmon to their birth rivers, or sea turtles to the same beach.

We are humans. We can choose, and being gay may be no less--but it certainly is no more, a biological imperative than being heterosexual. Thinking that it is so is justifying all the discrimination against gays that they've suffered over the years, don't you think?

I mean, if they have no choice about what they DO about their innate preferences, if it IS a 'biological drive,' then we absolutely cannot allow any gay man to hold a position of responsibility and authority over young men, can we?

C'mon, you know better than that.

[Clownboat]

According to you, your god made us, so if you enjoy eating raw bloody pigs guts, then that is how your god made you.
What that has to do with the price of politicians in washington I have no idea.

Pulling the predestination card is not relevant, because we are not talking about eternal accountability. We are talking about social acceptance. The assertion was that the wisest thing for a parent to do, when their child decides to do something that the parent opposes is to say that they love them and will support them in their lifestyle choice. Does this apply to all lifestyle choices, or just those that fit one's personal sensibilities?

Now you allude to homosexuality being a lifestyle choice. Do you have any evidence to back up such a claim?

- How old were you when you chose to be gay or straight?
- Could you now choose to be attracted to someone of the same sex?

My answers, which point to it not being a choice:
- I never chose to be gay or straight. I have always been what I have been (attracted to the opposite sex).
- I can not look at a man and choose to be attracted to them.

I'm curious how your answers will vary from mine or if you have any evidence, scant or not that homosexuality is a choice.

My assumption. You find it icky, much like many of us. You however follow a religion that has interpreted homosexuality as being something evil. Due to your religious beliefs, it's not OK to just find it icky, you must also believe that they are making this choice, are rejecting your god concept and are abominations because of it. This would then makes sense as to why you would consider such a choice to be like the choice to eat raw bloody pig guts that is known to cause diseases.

I ask for clarification because we all know what assuming can do, not because I care about your specific beliefs. Pick any religion to follow as you see fit. I care not as long as my fellow great apes don't have to suffer unnecessarily over it.

Focusing on the topic at hand, how does one support being "gay"? If someone is "gay" regardless of what they do, how does that being "gay" effect one's relationship with one's parents?

IMO, it should not effect the relationship with the parents anymore than the skin color of the child should. However, it seems obvious that some parents would view it as an activity that they would liken to eating of raw bloody pig guts.

I'm white. My daughters are white. How dare they choose to be white!
Ridiculous, right?

The rest of this is just an attempt to differentiate homosexual behavior from other behaviors based on the belief that the desire to take part in homosexual behavior is innate.

It seems to be innate. Just like skin color. See where I'm going here?

Many desires can be said to be innate.

So what. We are talking about a specific desire here and I have provided evidence that it is innate. You have refused to address this.

In fact, there is a lot of scientific study supporting the idea that the desire to commit murder is innate in some.

Seems off topic. Please explain how murder just might be innate because of some studies you have not linked to and then explain the link to a child being attracted to the same sex.

I am not saying that homosexuality and murder are exactly the same thing.

I'm glad you are not saying that homosexuality and murder are "exactly" the same thing.

It is odd though the comparisons that you have brought up:
- Eating raw bloody pig guts.
- Not "exactly" like murder.

I am saying that innate desire does not translate into blanket acceptance of the behavior.

And I am saying that it would be wrong for you to not accept your child for the race they are.

Is there something confusing about the fact that humans are biological sexual beings? Why should a group of people suffer ridicule for acting out on these natural and innate (so it seems) feelings, all the while people like you and I don't have to deal with bigotry for acting on the same biological sexual feelings?

[bluethread]

Do you think that telling your gay child that they might as well take on a diet of eating raw bloody pig guts that is known to cause disease if they are going to tell you that they are gay, would make for someone being a bad parent? This argument could probably be made, but should have a thread of its own.

If that is what I said, that might be the case. However, I asked what a parent should say to a child who says that they plan on a diet of raw bloody pigs guts, since the proper response would appear to be "I love you and I will support you whatever you do."

To me, this would be like adopting a minority child and then telling said child that they are bad for being said minority. Now, if a child could control what minority to be born from, that could change the scenario.

Haha! Specific race "X" child. You're race "X", you might as well choose to eat bloody pig guts if you're going to chose to be race "X". Do you see how this would be unfair? Can you empathize with the child in this scenario?

Yes, an argument Ad Absurdum does sound absurd. Skin color, bone structure or whatever you wish to define as race, does not define behavior.

You need to keep in mind that these kids are not telling their parents that they are taking part in an activity that will cause health issues, which is something every parent should care about. They are telling you which sex they are attracted to, and so far, all evidence I have seen suggest that they cannot control said attraction, just like you cannot control what race you are.

Well, we'll accept, for the sake of argument, that there is no intent on acting on such desires. Why would one then say that they would support them whatever they might choose to do?

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

Thank you for posting the modern definition of bigotry. I presume that you are implying that you do not view me with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of my opinion. That opinion being that I do not think that blanket statements like, "I will support you whatever you do." are good parenting. Maybe, "I will always try to give you the best advice with regard to what you do and treat you appropriately." might be better.

[bluethread]

Focusing on the topic at hand, how does one support being "gay"? If someone is "gay" regardless of what they do, how does that being "gay" effect one's relationship with one's parents?

IMO, it should not effect the relationship with the parents anymore than the skin color of the child should. However, it seems obvious that some parents would view it as an activity that they would liken to eating of raw bloody pig guts.

I'm white. My daughters are white. How dare they choose to be white!
Ridiculous, right?

How does one act white? This whole presumption that a desire is equal to an ethnicity, yet without the connotations that go with publicizing one's ethnicity, is absurd. Why would I even refer to myself as "white" unless I planned to act in a way that some would consider "white"? That is why I generally do not use those terms. People act the way they act and I respond to those actions. If someone implies that they intend on acting a certain way, I take note of that and act accordingly also.

The rest of this is just an attempt to differentiate homosexual behavior from other behaviors based on the belief that the desire to take part in homosexual behavior is innate.

It seems to be innate. Just like skin color. See where I'm going here?

Many desires can be said to be innate.

So what. We are talking about a specific desire here and I have provided evidence that it is innate. You have refused to address this.

In fact, there is a lot of scientific study supporting the idea that the desire to commit murder is innate in some.

Seems off topic. Please explain how murder just might be innate because of some studies you have not linked to and then explain the link to a child being attracted to the same sex.

I am not saying that homosexuality and murder are exactly the same thing.

I'm glad you are not saying that homosexuality and murder are "exactly" the same thing.

It is odd though the comparisons that you have brought up:
- Eating raw bloody pig guts.
- Not "exactly" like murder.

It is odd because those are things that you do not approve of and you do not wish to focus on the point being made, but conflate things to be similar in ways that I did not say or even imply. My point is that there are things that even you do not approve of and that you probably voice your disapproval to your child and not just pat them on the head and say, I will support you whatever you do.

I am saying that innate desire does not translate into blanket acceptance of the behavior.

And I am saying that it would be wrong for you to not accept your child for the race they are.

So, now homosexuality is a race? That is interesting. Given that I consider race a somewhat questionable term, it is good that you have clarified the definition for me. How is it that you came to the conclusion that homosexuality is a race?

Is there something confusing about the fact that humans are biological sexual beings? Why should a group of people suffer ridicule for acting out on these natural and innate (so it seems) feelings, all the while people like you and I don't have to deal with bigotry for acting on the same biological sexual feelings?

On the contrary, there are those who call all sex between a man and a woman rape. Is that not bigotry? I do not deny that humans have all kinds of desires. That is precisely the point I was making. So, what other desire do we as humans have that is free of social folkways and morays? In fact, sexuality is not free from folkways and morays, even among homosexuals. In fact, that has been made that clear on this thread, with regard to promiscuity as a generally accepted behavior among homosexuals.

Given the fact that all groups have folkways and morays, is it not less than responsible as a parent to say to a child that they will support that child regardless of the child's behavior?

[Goat]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

Is a heterosexual lifestyle strictly about engaging in 'heterosexual sex'? Is that all what your marriage was about?

[Joab]

What is it about consensual adults that the anti gays don't get?

[KCKID]

So, in your worldview, the salient definition of the Gay Lifestyle is that they are promiscuous?? How convenient. Gee, if I wanted to sit in judgement of homosexuals, I couldn't think of a more Archie Bunkeresque approach....

Pretty much, yes...and calling it 'Archie Bunkeresque' doesn't make it less true. What WOULD you call a 'homosexual lifestyle,' if it isn't about actively engaging in homosexual sex?

Is a heterosexual lifestyle strictly about engaging in 'heterosexual sex'? Is that all what your marriage was about?

It's precisely the question you ask that has me scratching my head in puzzlement. What IS a 'homosexual lifestyle' and HOW, if we can define it, does it differ from a 'heterosexual lifestyle'? The sex act itself? If so, why is one deemed to be better than the other when the results for each individual (theoretically immense pleasure and sexual fulfillment) are identical?

[malentide]

Here is the thing: people are born with a lot of strange fetishes. Some people get turned on by sweaty shoes. Other people get turned on by dead bodies. Still others get turned on by acts of rape. The line has to be drawn somewhere, people. The line has to be drawn SOMEWHERE. Who has the authority to draw this line? Oh, I know, God. That would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it, if God could just draw the line... Actually that is exactly what happened. God drew the line and its written in the Bible which you can get at any old bookstore. It's right there for all to read. Anything outside of sexual relations within a marriage between a man and a woman is WRONG. Wow, that is really easy and makes things a lot simpler for all of humanity.
Now if my son came to me and told me that he was gay, I would first of all make it clear to him that I don't love him any less. But then I would tell him to stop being gay. That's right. I would tell him that he has a choice. That he doesn't have to be gay. Just like if my son told me that he was a thief. I would tell him to stop being a thief. Just like if my son told me he was a liar. I would tell him to stop being a liar.
Now before people start making it complicated and tell me that sexuality is different and that being gay is an identity thing and etc. etc. Know this: I too was born with an interesting fetish. When I was five years old, yes, five years old, I started to have intense sexual fantasies about raping and humiliating women. I also began to have such fantasies about getting raped myself. That's right: I was born that way. Would you also like me to embrace my inner nature?? No, of course not, that's silly. I ask Jesus for forgiveness and give my damndest effort to NOT be myself. That's right. To reject my inner nature as evil, and have no part in it.
Other food for thought- I really don't think there is anything wrong with incorporating your fetishes into your marriage. I would love to set up a fake rape scenario with my wife, hmm maybe I should find a woman with the same propensities. If you are a gay man, find a woman who's not afraid to put on a strap-on dildo. If you are gay and a woman... ahhh I'm out of ideas.
The point is that there are creative ways to express sexuality within a marriage between a man and a woman, and there are also way too many gay people that are quite simply looking for an excuse. I was born a rapist, that doesn't mean I have to be one. I don't see any rape-pride parades. I do what Jesus tells me to do: deny myself, take up my cross and follow Him. This goes for EVERYBODY, not just for f**&*ed up people like me. The fact is, most people nowadays in first-world countries don't recognize that they are depraved, evil people, in need of a savior. That is why Jesus says it is so hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. They don't recognize their need and think they've got it all figured out.
But that is exactly what the world is made up of: Prideful, desperately evil people. And that is why the world is such a horrible place. That is why society sucks. That is why we can't figure anything out. Because we are a fallen race, and we all need Jesus to help us out.

[Joab]

Here is the thing: people are born with a lot of strange fetishes. Some people get turned on by sweaty shoes. Other people get turned on by dead bodies. Still others get turned on by acts of rape. The line has to be drawn somewhere, people. The line has to be drawn SOMEWHERE. Who has the authority to draw this line? Oh, I know, God. That would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it, if God could just draw the line... Actually that is exactly what happened. God drew the line and its written in the Bible which you can get at any old bookstore. It's right there for all to read. Anything outside of sexual relations within a marriage between a man and a woman is WRONG. Wow, that is really easy and makes things a lot simpler for all of humanity.
Now if my son came to me and told me that he was gay, I would first of all make it clear to him that I don't love him any less. But then I would tell him to stop being gay. That's right. I would tell him that he has a choice. That he doesn't have to be gay. Just like if my son told me that he was a thief. I would tell him to stop being a thief. Just like if my son told me he was a liar. I would tell him to stop being a liar.
Now before people start making it complicated and tell me that sexuality is different and that being gay is an identity thing and etc. etc. Know this: I too was born with an interesting fetish. When I was five years old, yes, five years old, I started to have intense sexual fantasies about raping and humiliating women. I also began to have such fantasies about getting raped myself. That's right: I was born that way. Would you also like me to embrace my inner nature?? No, of course not, that's silly. I ask Jesus for forgiveness and give my damndest effort to NOT be myself. That's right. To reject my inner nature as evil, and have no part in it.
Other food for thought- I really don't think there is anything wrong with incorporating your fetishes into your marriage. I would love to set up a fake rape scenario with my wife, hmm maybe I should find a woman with the same propensities. If you are a gay man, find a woman who's not afraid to put on a strap-on dildo. If you are gay and a woman... ahhh I'm out of ideas.
The point is that there are creative ways to express sexuality within a marriage between a man and a woman, and there are also way too many gay people that are quite simply looking for an excuse. I was born a rapist, that doesn't mean I have to be one. I don't see any rape-pride parades. I do what Jesus tells me to do: deny myself, take up my cross and follow Him. This goes for EVERYBODY, not just for f**&*ed up people like me. The fact is, most people nowadays in first-world countries don't recognize that they are depraved, evil people, in need of a savior. That is why Jesus says it is so hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. They don't recognize their need and think they've got it all figured out.
But that is exactly what the world is made up of: Prideful, desperately evil people. And that is why the world is such a horrible place. That is why society sucks. That is why we can't figure anything out. Because we are a fallen race, and we all need Jesus to help us out.

Well it's simple then. Bring your god along and have him draw a line.

I look forward to it.

[KCKID]

Here is the thing: people are born with a lot of strange fetishes. Some people get turned on by sweaty shoes. Other people get turned on by dead bodies. Still others get turned on by acts of rape. The line has to be drawn somewhere, people. The line has to be drawn SOMEWHERE. Who has the authority to draw this line? Oh, I know, God. That would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it, if God could just draw the line... Actually that is exactly what happened. God drew the line and its written in the Bible which you can get at any old bookstore. It's right there for all to read. Anything outside of sexual relations within a marriage between a man and a woman is WRONG. Wow, that is really easy and makes things a lot simpler for all of humanity.

But, while this could still be seen as being 'male and female' thereby halfway making your point, God doesn't appear to have 'drawn the line' at rapists marrying their victims, does He? And, how about the victors of a military campaign taking young virgins as 'spoils of war' and having their way with them? Didn't God actually command this? Clearly, He doesn't appear to have drawn the line here either, does He? Then, how about the 'one man and MANY women' examples in scripture that God seems to have been quite at ease with? Women were little more than 'property' and a man could have as many as he could afford. There are many other biblical instances where God never 'drew the line' so I'm not sure why you're making this out to be so simple an issue. Still, if you could offer scripture where it states that God says anything outside of sexual relations within a marriage between a man and a woman is WRONG, then let's have it.

Now if my son came to me and told me that he was gay, I would first of all make it clear to him that I don't love him any less. But then I would tell him to stop being gay. That's right. I would tell him that he has a choice. That he doesn't have to be gay. Just like if my son told me that he was a thief. I would tell him to stop being a thief. Just like if my son told me he was a liar. I would tell him to stop being a liar.

Clearly the above and also the rest of your post is said in ignorance of the facts. We're not talking about fetishes, whims, trends or criminal activity but sexual orientation. So, no point my responding any further. Welcome to the forum anyway.