Blaine.
Angel.
Cooperfield.
Magicians. They do 'tricks' that stun and amaze many people.
God/jesus did the same type of things.
So are they nothing more than magicians?
Let's compare:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = human
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = doing actions that surprise and impress certain (though not all) viewers
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = men
Let's contrast:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = alive jesus = dead
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = verifiable in the real world jesus = unverifiable
It sure seems god can be called nothing more than a magician. Is that true, or is it something else?
How do we know this?
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Magic and god
Moderator: Moderators
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Joab
- Under Probation
- Posts: 1210
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:01 am
- Location: The Restaraunt at the End of the Universe
Post #41
You did say that this magic man in scoan wasn't related to your faith healer.sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 37 by connermt]
All you've supplied is a personal opinion which has just faith that it's true and no proof.
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The assumptions you make are really dissappointing.
Why would i need a faith healer? What do i require to be healed?
Maybe you can explain that yourself?
What the world needs now
Is love sweet love
It's the only thing
That there's just to little of.
No not just for some
But for everyone
Jackie Deshannon
Is love sweet love
It's the only thing
That there's just to little of.
No not just for some
But for everyone
Jackie Deshannon
Re: Magic and god
Post #42[Replying to post 34 by dianaiad]
Well, no, I don't think that's what I said, it seems actually backwards. Without first establishing that god exists how can you credit god with doing anything? The issue of whether man can duplicate those things now or in the future seems like a red herring.
I think you and I had an exchange a few months back related to the existence of god and your comment:
is of interest at least in helping me understand your criteria for proof. Would you be willing to expand on your experiment?
I wouldn't agree that "belief in god is a very subjective thing", I think that the standards of proof that are acceptable by any two people can vary greatly and that might give the impression of subjectivity.
dianaiad wrote: "there is no evidence to show that the miracles of God ever happened because we can't identify the laws of nature that would allow them to happen" and "because we can't confirm the existence of the miracles, then there is no evidence for the existence of the One Who is given credit for them" and finally "if we ever can identify the laws which would allow these miracles, or duplicate them ourselves, that proves that those miracles were not supernatural and therefore there is no evidence that a Deity was involved."
Well, no, I don't think that's what I said, it seems actually backwards. Without first establishing that god exists how can you credit god with doing anything? The issue of whether man can duplicate those things now or in the future seems like a red herring.
I think you and I had an exchange a few months back related to the existence of god and your comment:
dianaiad wrote: I actually got there by performing an experiment with specific parameters
is of interest at least in helping me understand your criteria for proof. Would you be willing to expand on your experiment?
I wouldn't agree that "belief in god is a very subjective thing", I think that the standards of proof that are acceptable by any two people can vary greatly and that might give the impression of subjectivity.
*"On the other hand, we have people who are believers who are so completely sold on the literal interpretation of the first book of the Bible that they are rejecting very compelling scientific data about the age of the earth and the relatedness of living beings." Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
*The Atheist has the comfort of no fears for an afterlife and lacks any compulsion to blow himself up.
* Science flies to you the moon.... religion flies you into buildings.
* Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
*The Atheist has the comfort of no fears for an afterlife and lacks any compulsion to blow himself up.
* Science flies to you the moon.... religion flies you into buildings.
* Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
Post #43
[Replying to post 41 by Joab]
It means i have no faith healer, it was a reply to "your faith healer" posts.
It means i have no faith healer, it was a reply to "your faith healer" posts.
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
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Haven
- Guru
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- Location: Great Barrington, MA
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Re: Magic and god
Post #44Yes, he needs to become a "lab rat." If his abilities are real, they would be the greatest discovery in the history of humankind, and go a long way toward answering one of our species most persistent questions -- "is there a higher power?" But to do that, he needs to provide extraordinary evidence for his extraordinary claims and have them stand up to rigorous testing and scientific scrutiny. That's how knowledge is constructed and truth is discovered.[color=green]sizzle-d[/color] wrote: [Replying to post 36 by Haven]
Under controlled conditions? He'll leave the healing he does just to become a lab rat to prove a point. You aren't "scientified" enough to examine the medical records brought, watch him as he is healing and determine for your self. You need to hear it from those guys (you wonder why i ask for your proof of their proof).
If he can't provide such evidence, then it's rational to assume that he's just another dime-a-dozen "faith-healing" scammer. There have been hundreds of such scammers, and all have been proven false at one point or another. If this guy wants to prove he's different, he'll need to supply evidence (of course, he's making a ton of money off his racket so why mess it up?).
Haven
“Reserve your right to think.” - Hypatia
“A wise man… proportions his belief to the evidence” - David Hume
“Reserve your right to think.” - Hypatia
“A wise man… proportions his belief to the evidence” - David Hume
Re: Magic and god
Post #45[Replying to post 35 by sizzle-d]
Okay Sizzle-d, I went to the website and what was it suppose to do?
Convince me that this guy is anything other than another god huckster millionaire.
No, in this case seeing is not believing.
Okay Sizzle-d, I went to the website and what was it suppose to do?
Convince me that this guy is anything other than another god huckster millionaire.
No, in this case seeing is not believing.
*"On the other hand, we have people who are believers who are so completely sold on the literal interpretation of the first book of the Bible that they are rejecting very compelling scientific data about the age of the earth and the relatedness of living beings." Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D.
*The Atheist has the comfort of no fears for an afterlife and lacks any compulsion to blow himself up.
* Science flies to you the moon.... religion flies you into buildings.
* Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
*The Atheist has the comfort of no fears for an afterlife and lacks any compulsion to blow himself up.
* Science flies to you the moon.... religion flies you into buildings.
* Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
Post #46
[Replying to post 40 by sizzle-d]
Care to alter what you claim....?
Or are you confusing yourself more than I thought you possibly could?
Which, in addition to personal insults, is all you have offered as well. Unlike you, fortunately, I know my belief is that.All you've supplied is a personal opinion...
I'm flattered that you care so much. Unfortunately, your opinion is irrelevent to me.The assumptions you make are really dissappointing.
I wondered the same thing. Obviously, your stories can be kept straight as you said "...he is nothing related to my faith healer..." which indicates you HAVE a faith healer.Why would i need a faith healer?
Care to alter what you claim....?
Or are you confusing yourself more than I thought you possibly could?
Post #47
[Replying to connermt]
I have answered that same question to Joab. Try to keep up.
Don't be flattered and careful how you use care.
And finally, thank you so much for clarifying that your proof that God doesn't exist is faith.
I have answered that same question to Joab. Try to keep up.
Don't be flattered and careful how you use care.
And finally, thank you so much for clarifying that your proof that God doesn't exist is faith.
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Post #48
[Replying to post 47 by sizzle-d]
Then why did you make the claim? Did you get confused or....?I have answered that same question to Joab.
Make no sense.Don't be flattered and careful how you use care... thank you so much for clarifying that your proof that God doesn't exist is faith.
Post #49
[Replying to post 48 by connermt]
Um, i think anyone that sees "i have answered it" is supposed to know that they should read the answer.
Um, i think anyone that sees "i have answered it" is supposed to know that they should read the answer.
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Post #50
Again, another post that makes no sensesizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 48 by connermt]
Um, i think anyone that sees "i have answered it" is supposed to know that they should read the answer.
Care to clarify?
