Magic and god

[connermt]

Blaine.
Angel.
Cooperfield.
Magicians. They do 'tricks' that stun and amaze many people.
God/jesus did the same type of things.
So are they nothing more than magicians?
Let's compare:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = human
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = doing actions that surprise and impress certain (though not all) viewers
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = men
Let's contrast:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = alive jesus = dead
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = verifiable in the real world jesus = unverifiable

It sure seems god can be called nothing more than a magician. Is that true, or is it something else?
How do we know this?
-

[RonE]

[Replying to post 118 by sizzle-d]

Wow, I cannot believe you guys are still thrashing this subject around, what a waste of time.

I'd propose that illusion is the process by which both magic and miracles are performed.

"Magic (sometimes referred to as stage magic to distinguish it from paranormal or ritual magic) is a performing art that entertains audiences by staging tricks or creating illusions of seemingly impossible[1] or supernatural[2] feats using natural means. These feats are called magic tricks, effects, or illusions." Wikipedia

good night!

[average_bear]

[Replying to post 118 by sizzle-d]

I get the difference between illusion and magic, but if "b" is of God and "c" is of the devil, then I was right - magic and miracle are exactly the same thing.

[Haven]

[Replying to post 118 by sizzle-d]

I get the difference between illusion and magic, but if "b" is of God and "c" is of the devil, then I was right - magic and miracle are exactly the same thing.

Welcome to the forum !

Keep in mind that there is absolutely zero evidence that either magic or miracles exist. They are both paranormal occurrences that violate the laws of physics, and there is strong evidence against them even being possible.

~Haven

[sizzle-d]

[Replying to post 123 by Haven]

And what is the relevance of that to the topic?
I've clearly said where you can go see it.

[average_bear]

[Replying to post 123 by Haven]

Thanks. Christians throw the word and concept of "miracle" around taking little care to define it. To me, finding a good parking space at the mall is a miracle. I've heard many testimonies claiming miracles, like my great aunt's cancer is in remission (accompanied by "the doctor was amazed") , or a truck almost hit us but we escaped, or I needed money and an unexpected insurance refund came in the mail, and so on. If we force a precise definition of miracle - something which violates the laws of physics, then by definition it is impossible.

[sizzle-d]

[Replying to post 123 by Haven]
If we force a precise definition of miracle - something which violates the laws of physics, then by definition it is impossible.

That's why it's called a miracle. You can go see it for yourself but i doubt you'll go.

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 123 by Haven]
If we force a precise definition of miracle - something which violates the laws of physics, then by definition it is impossible.

That's why it's called a miracle. You can go see it for yourself but i doubt you'll go.

Consider this:
(Whether or not this is true in reality is not relevant)
We think that it is impossible for half the mass of the Earth to instantaneously disappear.
Lets call this a physical law - the law of no instant halving.
We think this physical law is true.

Tomorrow, half of the mass of the Earth instantaneously disappears. It happens to be a divine interference, unbeknownst to us.

Shock, horror - A law of physics has been broken? Something happened that clearly violated the law of no instant halving!
We conclude that the law of no instant halving wasn't true in the first place.
No physical law has been broken, we just imagined a law where there wasn't one.


This would be the case for any occurrence.

Law of physics, L, is thought true
Occurrence M violates L
We conclude L is not true

This would happen with ANYTHING.
If a miracle is "something which violates the laws of physics" then it is impossible, because the laws of physics change to be consistent with all things.

[sizzle-d]

We think

The original nature of science

Tomorrow, half of the mass of the Earth instantaneously disappears. It happens to be a divine interference

Don't tell me you're into that god of the gaps silliness.

the law of no instant halving wasn't true in the first place.
No physical law has been broken, we just imagined

They imagined and they do it a lot and that means nothing is true in science. Just COoP.

Law of physics, L, is thought true
Occurrence M violates L
We conclude L is not true
This would happen with ANYTHING.

Ohhhh, you must have real faith in science.

If a miracle is "something which violates the laws of physics" then it is impossible, because the laws of physics change to be consistent with all things.

This makes no sense. It should be called observation of physics not law because last time i checked, the "law" against killing has been there since so it should be COoP, i.e. Current Observation of Physics

[Danmark]

We think

The original nature of science

Tomorrow, half of the mass of the Earth instantaneously disappears. It happens to be a divine interference

Don't tell me you're into that god of the gaps silliness.

the law of no instant halving wasn't true in the first place.
No physical law has been broken, we just imagined

They imagined and they do it a lot and that means nothing is true in science. Just COoP.

Law of physics, L, is thought true
Occurrence M violates L
We conclude L is not true
This would happen with ANYTHING.

Ohhhh, you must have real faith in science.

If a miracle is "something which violates the laws of physics" then it is impossible, because the laws of physics change to be consistent with all things.

This makes no sense. It should be called observation of physics not law because last time i checked, the "law" against killing has been there since so it should be COoP, i.e. Current Observation of Physics

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[Jashwell]

We think

The original nature of science

Tomorrow, half of the mass of the Earth instantaneously disappears. It happens to be a divine interference

Don't tell me you're into that god of the gaps silliness.

the law of no instant halving wasn't true in the first place.
No physical law has been broken, we just imagined

They imagined and they do it a lot and that means nothing is true in science. Just COoP.

Law of physics, L, is thought true
Occurrence M violates L
We conclude L is not true
This would happen with ANYTHING.

Ohhhh, you must have real faith in science.

If a miracle is "something which violates the laws of physics" then it is impossible, because the laws of physics change to be consistent with all things.

This makes no sense. It should be called observation of physics not law because last time i checked, the "law" against killing has been there since so it should be COoP, i.e. Current Observation of Physics

You're conflating physical law with human law. Physical law is the behaviour that physical entities obey.
Physical law has not been observed to change - if it did, we would get a kind of meta-law describing the change that would become the new physical law.