Just Judgement

[help3434]

In the Theology subforum Humble disciple said

But if any man commits just ONE sin, then he is guilty, and thus God condemns them JUSTLY to Hell for their sin.

But if any man commits either just ONE sin, or a plurality of sins all the rest of the days of their lives, and WOULD BE justly condemned to Hell for their sin, but then believe in Jesus as their God and Savior...then they will enter into heaven.

So then, no man is condemned to Hell except that they justly deserve the condemnation. No man is sent to Hell for not believing in Jesus as God and Savior. But all those who *DO* believe in Jesus as God and Savior shall be saved from what would be a JUSTIFIED condemnation.

Would it be just for God to send people to Hell for committing one little sin? I think almost all Christians agree it would be unjust for someone who was caught jaywalking to be sentenced to hard labor, or someone who shoplifted to be tortured, or someone to went 5 mph over the spend limit to be sentenced to life in prison. Why then do many claim being sent to Hell for a few sins is just?

[connermt]

In the Theology subforum Humble disciple said

But if any man commits just ONE sin, then he is guilty, and thus God condemns them JUSTLY to Hell for their sin.

But if any man commits either just ONE sin, or a plurality of sins all the rest of the days of their lives, and WOULD BE justly condemned to Hell for their sin, but then believe in Jesus as their God and Savior...then they will enter into heaven.

So then, no man is condemned to Hell except that they justly deserve the condemnation. No man is sent to Hell for not believing in Jesus as God and Savior. But all those who *DO* believe in Jesus as God and Savior shall be saved from what would be a JUSTIFIED condemnation.

Would it be just for God to send people to Hell for committing one little sin? I think almost all Christians agree it would be unjust for someone who was caught jaywalking to be sentenced to hard labor, or someone who shoplifted to be tortured, or someone to went 5 mph over the spend limit to be sentenced to life in prison. Why then do many claim being sent to Hell for a few sins is just?

It's taught any judgment that comes from god is just; afterall christians justify their god drowning of 99.9999% of animals, men, women and children (even the unborn) in the OT - if they can justify that atrocitythey can justify anything!
God can do NO wrong in their eyes thus, anything it does is perfectly fine and acceptable - just even.
So one sin, no matter how small it seems to us, is a big enough deal to their god that it's perfectly acceptable to condemn one to hell for doing it.
Remember, many if not most of these believers are the ones that accept we are born sinful based on the actions of two long dead people.
I've learned not to place logic on any accepted christian belief - it simply causes headaches.

[ttruscott]

...

Would it be just for God to send people to Hell for committing one little sin? I think almost all Christians agree it would be unjust for someone who was caught jaywalking to be sentenced to hard labor, or someone who shoplifted to be tortured, or someone to went 5 mph over the spend limit to be sentenced to life in prison. Why then do many claim being sent to Hell for a few sins is just?

Pre-Conception Existence Christianity does not accept that anyone is banished to hell for one little sin... Other sects might and see it as just as the remedy of the offer of salvation in Christ is available to them if they want it and avail themselves of it, making the cause of their being in hell their own decision to reject the offer of salvation.

PCEC contends that the only sin that has the natural consequence of banishment to hell is the complete rejection by their free will of YHWH as divine and the utter rejection by their free will of HIS promise of salvation from all sin which rejection essentially self creates them as eternally evil. Since the effect of choosing to become a sinner is to become enslaved by the addicting quality of evil which destroys one's free will, a person cannot thereafter chose by free will to become holy and righteous on their own without the help of GOD, making the natural consequence of their rejection of that help to be an eternal enslavement to evil.

These are the only people, self created demons, who will be banished to hell so their evil will not contaminate the heavenly telepathic link established when the last of those who can have their addiction to evil cured are brought to holy righteousness and their free will restored by HIS grace. Not that their evil is worse than the evil of the sinful elect but that they have put themselves outside of the 'cure' which the sinful elect have access to.

So it is plain that 'going to hell for one simple sin' has no place in PCEC at all and in fact is a false accusation against the religion as a whole as I am sure further answers from orthodoxy will expand.

I will admit I know of one sect which believes that their "Christian G"od makes them sinners then condemns them to hell though they often loudly reject that as part of their belief (because of its unpopularity, that is, not because they don't believe it) even though your scenario is implicit to their basic doctrine. Needless to say they are rejected by every other definition of Christian reality extent.

Peace, Ted

[help3434]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Does anyone remember being a "self created demon"? Is it just to be condemned to Hell for something you don't remember doing? Is being tortured forever a just punishment for anything?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Does anyone remember being a "self created demon"? Is it just to be condemned to Hell for something you don't remember doing? Is being tortured forever a just punishment for anything?

No, and in reponse to the OP eternal torture in hell for finite sin, seems to me extremely UNjust.

The image of God that Fundamentalism seems to posit that hell is just even for "everyday" sinners (or imperfect people).

God, (as interpreted by Fundamentalists, but not all Christians) seems to be incapable of making fine moral distinctions, with his supposed "all or nothing" hanging-judge mentality. How is that justice? A human judge who acted like that would be removed from the bench.

I believe God is better than that.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Does anyone remember being a "self created demon"?

I don't know but so what? I think Satan does and some few others but Romans 1 tells us that those who know the truth about YHWH's divinity and power repress that truth because they love sin more. Perhaps the non-remembering is the same as our not remembering our earliest human lives or perhaps our pre-earth lives are repressed by our love for sin.

Is it just to be condemned to Hell for something you don't remember doing?

Oh, we will all remember every jot and tittle of our sins before the judgment seat of GOD and in a telepathic society, so will every other created being in existence. All will out.

Is being tortured forever a just punishment for anything?

Torture is the application of undeserved suffering. The prisoner on death row feels torture while waiting and when he dies but the justice demanded by the judge is not torture, it is a righteous judgment.

The demons are sent to hell to cleanse all of created reality from all hint or taint of their sin so the heavenly experience of telepathic love and holy communion can be perfectly experienced. The point isn't the pain they feel but in that they can never repent (only those who can't repent are sent to hell) they are banished so that they can't contaminate HIS reality anymore.

Peace, Ted

[ttruscott]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Does anyone remember being a "self created demon"? Is it just to be condemned to Hell for something you don't remember doing? Is being tortured forever a just punishment for anything?

No, and in reponse to the OP, eternal torture in hell for finite sin, seems to me extremely UNjust it seems to me.

Since it is my theology under particular discussion here, I'm surprised you lump my theology in here as I do not claim either torture nor judgement for finite sin but only righteous judgement for an infinite sin of eternal proportions...that of self creating oneself as a demon.

The image of God that Fundamentalism seems to posit that hell is just even for "everyday" sinners (or imperfect people)

.

Why should we care what illogical whackos think? Are you implying that their foolishness rubs off on all Christians? If you want to denegrate wackos, throw it open to all the wacked out theories and idealisms of the world...why pick on those whom ordinary Christians reject as Christians except to lump them together by implication?

God, (as interpreted by Fundamentalists, but not all Christians) seems to be incapable of making fine moral distinctions, with his supposed "all or nothing" hanging-judge mentality. How is that justice? A human judge who acted like that would be removed from the bench.

I believe God is better than that.

I cannot believe anyone who believes as you just wrote is a Christian... Is it easier to tilt at this windmill than to parse non-'fundamentalist wacko' Christianity?

Peace, Ted

[Wootah]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Does anyone remember being a "self created demon"? Is it just to be condemned to Hell for something you don't remember doing? Is being tortured forever a just punishment for anything?

No, and in reponse to the OP, eternal torture in hell for finite sin, seems to me extremely UNjust it seems to me.

Since it is my theology under particular discussion here, I'm surprised you lump my theology in here as I do not claim either torture nor judgement for finite sin but only righteous judgement for an infinite sin of eternal proportions...that of self creating oneself as a demon.

The image of God that Fundamentalism seems to posit that hell is just even for "everyday" sinners (or imperfect people)

.

Why should we care what illogical whackos think? Are you implying that their foolishness rubs off on all Christians? If you want to denegrate wackos, throw it open to all the wacked out theories and idealisms of the world...why pick on those whom ordinary Christians reject as Christians except to lump them together by implication?

God, (as interpreted by Fundamentalists, but not all Christians) seems to be incapable of making fine moral distinctions, with his supposed "all or nothing" hanging-judge mentality. How is that justice? A human judge who acted like that would be removed from the bench.

I believe God is better than that.

I cannot believe anyone who believes as you just wrote is a Christian... Is it easier to tilt at this windmill than to parse non-'fundamentalist wacko' Christianity?

Peace, Ted

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[help3434]

[Replying to post 7 by ttruscott]

You are one to talk about who ordinary Christians reject as Christian. Your theology is not taught by any major Christian denomination. How is it logical to believe that some people made themselves into demons before they were born?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by help3434]

When you are driving your car and you crash into another car, assuming it is your fault and only material damage occurred, how much does it cost to repair the other car?

The answer totally depends on what you crashed into. An 86 model Datsun might cost you nothing a Lamborghini might cost you everything you own.

The sin and it's scale is not the determinant of the price of justice.