Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[Danmark]

[Replying to keithprosser3]

Because there is such as a thing called conscience, it highly discredits the
theory of evolution. Evolution says that we evolved from monkeys or
some other monkey like creature. In order for this to happen there would have to be
only the will to survive, nothing else. Because we know what is moral. We have a conscience of our own. Which of course is created by God.

~Omega

Every statement in this post is either wrong, is not backed up with evidence, or arrives at faulty conclusions based not based on proper logic or firm premises.

We do have a conscience, and if we did not it would not 'discredit evolution.'
We did not evolve from monkeys. What is a 'monkey like creature?'
Evolution does not depend on the 'will to survive.' It depends on many things. The fact that all organisms are pain averse and choose behaviors designed to avoid damage or death is simply a demonstrable fact. One need not isolate a 'will to survive.'

Then you contradict yourself by saying we DO have a conscience.
Throwing in 'Which of course is created by God,' which only begs the question and is nothing but unsupported opinion.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1401 by H.sapiens]

You have not given any proof that I'm incorrect all you said was "Nope Your [sic] wrong all
wrong" Please give a more appropriate argument.

You haven't said anything that merits counter argument. You've just given a series of false statements, unsupported by evidence, illogical deductions and personal opinions. My guess at why you've received such perfunctory answers is that you haven't made an argument for your position which runs contrary to the overwhelming views of science.

An argument is a proposition, supported by facts that are supported by evidence, followed by a conclusion demonstrating how those facts support the proposition. An argument is more than a scattershot approach consisting only of your own opinions, unbuttressed by evidence.

[Omega Nation]

[Replying to post 1402 by Goat]

Okay Goat
1. Evolution is the study of Humanity evolving from Simian to Sapiens to Average Human. If you think that Evolution could have "developed" a conscience and
morality on its own how would it be able to grow from not having any information on morality to knowing for sure what is right and wrong? Morality just doesn't mix with
evolution in terms of working together and establishing a society. If I told you that
I beat my wife and killed random people on the street as a sport, you would probably act like a Christian and tell me "What's wrong with you. That is wrong."
See, with atheism there really is no establishment to tell what is right and what is wrong. After all there is no real reason to be moral. Yes of course there is a justice system but what is that really going to teach people. There are two types of evolution
Micro-evolution and Macro-evolution. Micro-evolution is when small changes are made to an animal. Macro-evolution is when major changes occur to an animal or
species. Macro-evolution is the kind of evolution explained for the cause of man in an atheist world view. It is believed by faith that this type actually exists although
there really is no evidence of this occurring. In fact it's actually been faked before. Evolution cannot jump.
If you put the entire span of evolution explained in a 24 hour day it goes from it doesn't jump it to it makes a huge leap almost instantly.

2. Everyone in the world has a conscience. Animals do not have a conscience that
we know of. No conscience is exactly the same. That is why there are all different
and unique. When I explained morality in the section above I didn't mean that
atheists cannot be moral. I simply meant that morality comes from somewhere in
ourselves called a conscience. Don't get me wrong there can be a moral atheist
but the fact that they are moral cannot be explained scientifically. A conscience
can also not be proven scientifically because it is something inside the human mind
that promotes uniqueness and moral values. It says what's wrong and what is right.
The reason I believe conscience comes from God is because conscience has almost
the exact same principles of morality shown in the new testament and the old.
Don't kill, Don't steal, Don't lie, of course not all people have the same exact conscience but those are what most people follow all because of conscience. Because
evolution says that the enlargement of the brain influences conscience. Why should
it be all unique the way it is.

[Omega Nation]

[Replying to post 1405 by Danmark]

Dan, it amazes me how some rely on "overwhelming views of science", most of which have never actually been proven and many of which have been discounted by their actual author. In explaining his theory, Darwin himself did not address how life initially began.
Why is it so easy to believe in a nebulous Big Bang Theory and so difficult to believe in the existence of a Creator? Is it because you have doubts as to why we exist? Is it because it is too difficult to wrap your mind around the fact that Someone might be in charge? Is life really just a lucky combination of elements?

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 1402 by Goat]

Okay Goat
1. Evolution is the study of Humanity evolving from Simian to Sapiens to Average Human.

This is false.

If you think that Evolution could have "developed" a conscience and
morality on its own how would it be able to grow from not having any information on morality to knowing for sure what is right and wrong?

The concepts of right and wrong are beneficial.
If we went around killing everyone else, we wouldn't last very long. We'd die out quickly. Other species that didn't wouldn't die out this way.
Evolution by natural selection.

Morality just doesn't mix with evolution in terms of working together and establishing a society. If I told you that
I beat my wife and killed random people on the street as a sport, you would probably act like a Christian and tell me "What's wrong with you. That is wrong."

What do you mean like a Christian?
Ignoring the old testament, why is this critical response considered "Christian" behaviour?

See, with atheism there really is no establishment to tell what is right and what is wrong.

This is false.

After all there is no real reason to be moral.

This is also false.

Yes of course there is a justice system but what is that really going to teach people.

To do what appears to be the right thing within practical reason.

There are two types of evolution
Micro-evolution and Macro-evolution. Micro-evolution is when small changes are made to an animal.

To a population within a species. It's genetic.

Macro-evolution is when major changes occur to an animal or
species. Macro-evolution is the kind of evolution explained for the cause of man in an atheist world view.

Evolution is the best explanation for the variation of life on Earth.
Why would it stop at an arbitrary point?

It is believed by faith that this type actually exists although
there really is no evidence of this occurring.

There is plenty of evidence. Fossil records, similarity of life, genetics.

In fact it's actually been faked before. Evolution cannot jump.
If you put the entire span of evolution explained in a 24 hour day it goes from it doesn't jump it to it makes a huge leap almost instantly.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

2. Everyone in the world has a conscience.

Something you couldn't possibly prove - I also doubt that children (pre-parenting) would have a conscience.

Animals do not have a conscience that we know of. No conscience is exactly the same. That is why there are all different and unique. When I explained morality in the section above I didn't mean that atheists cannot be moral. I simply meant that morality comes from somewhere in ourselves called a conscience. Don't get me wrong there can be a moral atheist but the fact that they are moral cannot be explained scientifically.

Some individuals review their actions according to certain standards.
These standards differ between individuals.
Some individuals believe there are a set of universal standards.

There, 'scientific' explanation.

A conscience can also not be proven scientifically because it is something inside the human mind that promotes uniqueness and moral values. It says what's wrong and what is right.

Psychology, Neurology, Sociology

The reason I believe conscience comes from God is because conscience has almost the exact same principles of morality shown in the new testament and the old.

"The new testament and the old have almost the exact same principles as me"
Therefore by your logic, you are the source of conscience.

Don't kill

I don't recognise this in the old testament.

Don't steal

Ditto. Wait, do you mean "unless God says you can"?

Don't lie

Wait, where is this even mentioned?

of course not all people have the same exact conscience but those are what most people follow all because of conscience.

Did God mess up?

Because evolution says that the enlargement of the brain influences conscience. Why should it be all unique the way it is.

What do you mean unique?

[Omega Nation]

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

Please offer me your definition of evolution since you find mine incorrect.
Christianity teaches to love your fellow man as yourself. This is more than beneficial. This is more than just not killing each other.
Wait, you're saying that the justice system exists "to do what appears to be the right thing within practical reason"? What if some believe it is the right thing within practical reason to destroy those who are not members of their particular group? I'm sure some terrorist groups believe that their system of justice is correct within their own definition of practical reason. Practical reason is a slippery slope and does not have the foundation that has survived through the ages.

[Omega Nation]

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

P.S. Wait a minute, you don't find "do not kill" in the OT? Have you, perchance, read the ten commandments as handed down by Moses? Thou shalt not kill. It seems pretty clear cut to me. I'm just saying.

[Omega Nation]

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

Also How can you not find "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
meaning Do not lie in the Ten commandments?

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

Please offer me your definition of evolution since you find mine incorrect.

I'm not particularly amazing at this but

1) The process by which life changes and creates variation
2) Genetic change in populations over time
3) The gradual change created by natural selection

These are all kind of sub definitions.
Evolution does not specifically refer to great apes->humans.

Christianity teaches to love your fellow man as yourself. This is more than beneficial. This is more than just not killing each other.

"More than beneficial"
I do good mainly because it's good for others.
Are you suggesting there's a different reason to do good, besides it being good for others?

Are masochists and those with low self conscience allowed to hate others like they hate themselves?

Wait, you're saying that the justice system exists "to do what appears to be the right thing within practical reason"? What if some believe it is the right thing within practical reason to destroy those who are not members of their particular group? I'm sure some terrorist groups believe that their system of justice is correct within their own definition of practical reason. Practical reason is a slippery slope and does not have the foundation that has survived through the ages.

There has been more than one justice system you know.
Just like how Christianity doesn't teach any unique or new moral values, the american justice system is mostly a modern rehash (with updates) of an older justice system.

Sadly, there isn't a perfect way to know whether something is good or bad. This is the real world, not a fairy tale.

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

P.S. Wait a minute, you don't find "do not kill" in the OT? Have you, perchance, read the ten commandments as handed down by Moses? Thou shalt not kill. It seems pretty clear cut to me. I'm just saying.

I didn't say that someone didn't say it.
I was confused by all the genocide the anti-hero was doing.

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

Also How can you not find "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
meaning Do not lie in the Ten commandments?

The Earth is flat.
There, I lied without bearing false witness.

[scourge99]

[Replying to post 1408 by Jashwell]

P.S. Wait a minute, you don't find "do not kill" in the OT? Have you, perchance, read the ten commandments as handed down by Moses? Thou shalt not kill. It seems pretty clear cut to me. I'm just saying.

How does one reconcile "thou shall not kill" with "thou shall not suffer a witch to live" and the extermination of all Cananites, men, women, and children, except for the virgin women?... among many other examples of killing and violence done in the name of the Christian god or under the orders of the Christian god as told in the Bible.

Its seems "thou shall not kill" has a lot of exceptions for killing.