OnceConvinced wrote:
[
Replying to post 4 by ttruscott]
...
One may argue that he is God, he created us, so he has the right to judge us, but that doesn't make him a righteous judge, just a dictator who forces his will on the people, much like the ones we have seen on this planet.
I very much doubt any righteous judge would condemn even animals to a horrific and terrifying watery death. Just the fact that he would, proves he is not righteous.
I was wondering if anyone would get this far. I've been here a looong time already.
So to set the stage for my answer. I do not ask it be judged by ordinary reality (which it isn't) but by a logical interpretation of what is written.
1. Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made.
This is very interpretive since what is written is: serpent H5175 was H1961 subtil H6175 beast H2416 field H7704... It seems to be a comparison between the serpent and the other beasts so is it less or is it more...Satan being
less subtle than the beasts would make them very bad indeed but him being
more subtil than the other beasts makes them only a little bit evil or at least, not as evil minded as he was, eh?
Anyone care to argue this cannot imply that the beasts in the garden were a little bit sinful? IF they were not subtil at all, this wording makes no sense. So in this verse we do have sinful animals in the garden which is a big enough jump for right now.
2. Gen 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
Again we have a comparative list that makes no sense unless the ordinary choice of interpretation that the serpent's curse was
stronger or above that of the other animals.. thou H859 hast done H6213 cursed H779 cattle H929 beast H2416 field H7704;
We all know about the Serpent's curse but has anyone pointed out the similar but lesser curse put upon the other sinful animals. Pretty hidden eh? Even more hidden than Adam and Eve being called
subtil themselves but having it interpreted as
naked, both being the same word.
Pretty weird? Just one more hop down this rabbit hole because we now come to the flood:
3. Gen 6:7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.�
and
11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence.
Since we now have understand the animals were sinful then we see that HIS inclusion of
the earth, v11 with the human race as "corrupt in HIS sight and was full of violence" is a reference to the sins of the animals.
[ASIDE: HIS
regret in
v6 and
7 is
repenteth H5162 [to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted] and could easily be saying that the time had come when He consoled HIMself that HIS plan was finished and HE could bring this stage of things, the allowance of only evil non-elect into the world to prove to us all how they would then live, could come to an end. And they died as they lived, violently.]
Now I really see no need to believe this or make any point with it except when someone suggests that HE is guilty of unrighteousness to kill innocent animals in HIS judgment. Your point is valuable until I see in the text that they too were under judgement for their crafty evil and cursed like the serpent, only to a lesser degree.
OnceConvinced wrote:Ted, a question. If you believe that we were born on this earth kind of as a penance for our evil, why would God then decided to wipe everyone out with a flood?
...So he punishes them twice for their evil. How is that righteous? How is that just? How is it moral?
pen·ance: 1.voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.
Penance does not seem to be the right word since repentance doesn't happen until after one dies from guilt and is reborn...cured of their addiction to evil and being brought to holiness by HIS grace, which is certainly not self inflicted.
We know from the parable of the good but sinful seed that the Son of Man sows the people of the kingdom into the world to be redeemed and that the people of the evil one are sown into the world by the devil to do his desires.
Sown cannot mean
created of course since the devil cannot create people but means to be moved from a storage bin to a place of growth or growing.
If GOD had a lesson to teach antiquity, such as us perhaps, and kept HIS people back and let the devil sow a lot of HIS people into the world to maybe prove that no matter how small the church is or how large the world of the devil is that GOD and HIS people will prevail, that would be a great lesson for those in the end times for instance, wouldn't it.
As for the unrighteousness of double jeopardy, earth is not a final sentence but just a holding prison that has a fair amount of sin driven disaster in it but it will end when the inmates are either redeemed and set free or are banished from HIS country. When a judge sentences someone to the holding prison, He knows there will be a certain amount of suffering that is to be expected even though not actually apart of the sentence but it is a prison after all full of violent criminals. The sentence to prison is also a sentence to suffering the various ills of being in prison.
Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
