"I am NOT an animal"

[Zzyzx]

.
"I am NOT an animal"

Many who do not appear to have much knowledge of biology seem indignant when learning that H. sapiens are classified as animals (alternatives being plant and virus). I do not recall ever hearing a Non-Theist object. 1) Is there something about religion that causes this?

You see I am NOT an animal, never was and never in a billion years will I evolve to be one, my family tree all the way back to Adam don't have one ape in it.

2) Why be upset, indignant or in denial about a biological / taxonomic classification?

3) Since humans differ from other animals only in degree (some mental and physical characteristics), what is the objection to recognizing that they are animals?

4) Is anything other than religion (and possibly narcissism) involved?


In the quoted statement someone (whose theological position apparently defies description) claims knowledge of his family tree back to Adam – as though that proves the claimant is not an animal. However, if the hypothetical Adam was human (H. sapiens), he (Adam) classifies as an animal.

[squint]

Christianity teaches (some) to say NO to the wickedness IN us and in others, and directs us to The Perfect (undefined unbound) Objective, which is GOD.

Materialism, however intelligent, however "provable" will not over ride the reality of evil IN man, and as such MAN is not to be entirely trusted.

Then this begs the obvious question: how can we trust anything about scripture or god, when all knowledge of god comes from humans?

Ultimately testing the "reality" of God is left to the individual in various comparisons within their own lives, how their lives should be approached and lived, and to the patterns of engagements and truths of/in the scriptures.

The law, prophets, apostles and others inform us of "their" engagements with God. Each person is to have their own engagements, or not as the cases may be.

Some are called into it, most are not and don't/won't have a clue.

Christianity doesn't have anything to do with religious organizations or ritualistic ceremonies. For example I don't buy the bulk of what I hear from mainstream media, government OR even less, denominational christianity.

[Blastcat]

Christianity teaches (some) to say NO to the wickedness IN us and in others, and directs us to The Perfect (undefined unbound) Objective, which is GOD.

Materialism, however intelligent, however "provable" will not over ride the reality of evil IN man, and as such MAN is not to be entirely trusted.

Then this begs the obvious question: how can we trust anything about scripture or god, when all knowledge of god comes from humans?

Ultimately testing the "reality" of God is left to the individual in various comparisons within their own lives, how their lives should be approached and lived, and to the patterns of engagements and truths of/in the scriptures.

The law, prophets, apostles and others inform us of "their" engagements with God. Each person is to have their own engagements, or not as the cases may be.

Some are called into it, most are not and don't/won't have a clue.

Christianity doesn't have anything to do with religious organizations or ritualistic ceremonies. For example I don't buy the bulk of what I hear from mainstream media, government OR even less, denominational christianity.

Except historically. The bible was written by people. This was promulgated by other people. These people had various religions. A CHURCH was established.. the "catholic" church. Then.. after a few hundred years.. A protestant church was established... And then. hundreds of denominations of protestants were established.

Some of these came to America. and they had different churches. You may have been brought up around such Christians.. who espoused certain kinds of Protestant beliefs.

You seem to have taken the "flavor" of some of these denominations.. and now.. you find it more convenient to make up your own brand.

It's a common phenomenon. People like to make new religions. You have a religion of one. But it's certainly tied to very specific kinds of Christian Denominations.

I guess subjective reality is easier to dream up if we don't have to follow any rules from any established religion. We can make it up as we see fit. AND it serves much better in a debate. We can't be tied down to any dogma or position if we aren't a member of a religion with more defined doctrines.

[squint]

Except historically. The bible was written by people. This was promulgated by other people. These people had various religions. A CHURCH was established.. the "catholic" church. Then.. after a few hundred years.. A protestant church was established... And then. hundreds of denominations of protestants were established.

So sez you. Christians generally accept that the Spirit of Christ spoke through the law, prophets, and ultimately the Son and apostles.

Everything from there breaks down to various sights of imperfections and really doesn't represent "christianity" whatsoever, but segmented denominationalism.

Some of these came to America. and they had different churches. You may have been brought up around such Christians.. who espoused certain kinds of Protestant beliefs.

You seem to have taken the "flavor" of some of these denominations.. and now.. you find it more convenient to make up your own brand.

I'll think about the matters however I please, thank you. And you of course are welcome to make your own conclusions.

It's a common phenomenon. People like to make new religions. You have a religion of one. But it's certainly tied to very specific kinds of Christian Denominations.

I guess subjective reality is easier to dream up if we don't have to follow any rules from any established religion. We can make it up as we see fit. AND it serves much better in a debate. We can't be tied down to any dogma or position if we aren't a member of a religion with more defined doctrines.

I doubt you'd find too many who have encountered God in Christ in whatever fashions haven't had an internal experience of some sort of engagement.

Faith takes many forms. When anyone loves I consider it a matter linked to faith, whether they are "christians" or not depending on "who" is providing the definitions.

[KenRU]

Except historically. The bible was written by people. This was promulgated by other people. These people had various religions. A CHURCH was established.. the "catholic" church. Then.. after a few hundred years.. A protestant church was established... And then. hundreds of denominations of protestants were established.

So sez you. Christians generally accept that the Spirit of Christ spoke through the law, prophets, and ultimately the Son and apostles.

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

Everything from there breaks down to various sights of imperfections and really doesn't represent "christianity" whatsoever, but segmented denominationalism.

So sez you : )


-all the best

[Blastcat]

Except historically. The bible was written by people. This was promulgated by other people. These people had various religions. A CHURCH was established.. the "catholic" church. Then.. after a few hundred years.. A protestant church was established... And then. hundreds of denominations of protestants were established.

So sez you. Christians generally accept that the Spirit of Christ spoke through the law, prophets, and ultimately the Son and apostles.

What I wrote isn't historically true?

Christians didn't get their ideas from Christian RELIGIONS and so on? They all got a special revelation from the holy spirit?

Where did you get the law, the prophets and so on FROM?..

No religion was ever involved?
How odd.

Everything from there breaks down to various sights of imperfections and really doesn't represent "christianity" whatsoever, but segmented denominationalism.

I see.. the "no true Scotsman" hard at work again.

All those imperfect denominations.. But I'm pretty sure that the Christian religion had something to do with your christian beliefs.

Some of these came to America. and they had different churches. You may have been brought up around such Christians.. who espoused certain kinds of Protestant beliefs.

You seem to have taken the "flavor" of some of these denominations.. and now.. you find it more convenient to make up your own brand.

I'll think about the matters however I please, thank you. And you of course are welcome to make your own conclusions.

Of course. You can think about any matter however you please. But it would be best of all to think as clearly as possible. I hope you agree.

It's a common phenomenon. People like to make new religions. You have a religion of one. But it's certainly tied to very specific kinds of Christian Denominations.

I guess subjective reality is easier to dream up if we don't have to follow any rules from any established religion. We can make it up as we see fit. AND it serves much better in a debate. We can't be tied down to any dogma or position if we aren't a member of a religion with more defined doctrines.

I doubt you'd find too many who have encountered God in Christ in whatever fashions haven't had an internal experience of some sort of engagement.

Right. Those who claim a personal experience DO claim a personal experience.

But that doesn't mean the religious framework doesn't exist. Muslims have a personal experience with Allah.. and so on. Everyone who believes in a god take the belief rather personally.. and have some kind of experience. Personal experiences differ because people are different. You don't have the same kind of personal experience of your god as any other believer, do you?

The Christ concept is a Christian one. It comes from the Christian religion. Which predates your internal experience. It's not as if the Christian religions didn't exist.

You don't happen to HAVE a Hindu concept of god, do you?

The Christian religions do exist, they have existed. For a very long time. They have been pretty much inescapable in western society for about..what.. two thousand years? Bit of a historical influence, maybe?

Faith takes many forms. When anyone loves I consider it a matter linked to faith, whether they are "christians" or not depending on "who" is providing the definitions.

You judge other people based on your faith. They judge you based on THEIR faith.. so who is right and who is wrong here?.. both using faith.. Are both right?

Are both wrong?.. How does someone's faith help make a judgement on reality?

I would never presume to define someone's belief. However, I can say with a bit of certainty that Christian religion actually DID predate your Christian belief.. whatever they are.

[arian]

Your creator isn't a god ?

ok. You can call it what you like.

Not 'a'-god, but The God, the only Infinite and Eternal God possible; The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am"

example:
The mother tells her 4 year old son to; "Go get daddy, dinner is served!"
the boy runs into his bedroom and opens up a small toy box full of plastic toy soldiers, picks one and runs back to mommy and says: "Here mommy, here is daddy!"

see the difference?

So God our Creator (the title 'Creator' should explain all that in itself) is not one of the gods that theists and deists study in theology (the study of god/gods) but is the obvious 'awareness' with the ability to create whom we can study through science. That's right, studying our mind reveals the Creator.

You see if you believe the brain creates the mind, then you have a created-creator and Tillich also explains that this kind of reasoning is false. I believe my explanation is far clearer since I can now use data gathered in the study of consciousness., .. like I said for instance; 'The Blue Brain Project'

[KenRU]

Christianity teaches (some) to say NO to the wickedness IN us and in others, and directs us to The Perfect (undefined unbound) Objective, which is GOD.

Materialism, however intelligent, however "provable" will not over ride the reality of evil IN man, and as such MAN is not to be entirely trusted.

Then this begs the obvious question: how can we trust anything about scripture or god, when all knowledge of god comes from humans?

Ultimately testing the "reality" of God is left to the individual in various comparisons within their own lives, how their lives should be approached and lived, and to the patterns of engagements and truths of/in the scriptures.

All based upon the words of people they are told they shouldn't trust?

The law, prophets, apostles and others inform us of "their" engagements with God. Each person is to have their own engagements, or not as the cases may be.

Some are called into it, most are not and don't/won't have a clue.

Clue about what? The calling? If we can't trust man, and all we have to trust is god, then whom should we "blame" for the non-believers not believing?

Christianity doesn't have anything to do with religious organizations or ritualistic ceremonies. For example I don't buy the bulk of what I hear from mainstream media, government OR even less, denominational christianity.

Christianity is a religion. Not sure why you would want to disassociate the two.

all the best

[Blastcat]

Your creator isn't a god ?

ok. You can call it what you like.

Not 'a'-god, but The God, the only Infinite and Eternal God possible; The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am"

Oh.. I get it. I FINALLY I get it. ( took me long enough )

You only accept that YOUR god is the true.. the one and only true god. All the other gods are not true gods. You reject all other gods, so it's as if you have demonstrated that none of these other pretend gods are real. That's what the believers in the other gods say about your god, too.

It's the No True Scotsman argument.
Thanks for clearing that up.

The only problem is all the other gods are supposed to be the one true god too.

example:
The mother tells her 4 year old son to; "Go get daddy, dinner is served!"
the boy runs into his bedroom and opens up a small toy box full of plastic toy soldiers, picks one and runs back to mommy and says: "Here mommy, here is daddy!"

see the difference?

Absolutely I see the difference. That's what the other religions say about your god. That's your god is a fake god.

So God our Creator (the title 'Creator' should explain all that in itself) is not one of the gods that theists and deists study in theology (the study of god/gods) but is the obvious 'awareness' with the ability to create whom we can study through science. That's right, studying our mind reveals the Creator.

No, sorry, the title "creator" doesn't explain it all by itself.. again, due to the other gods who are called that, too.

You see if you believe the brain creates the mind, then you have a created-creator and Tillich also explains that this kind of reasoning is false.

I don't at all see the connection between my opinion on mind/brain and created/creator. You haven't explained how studying our mind reveals the Creator.

This is apples and oranges. But I'm happy that Tillich figures it all out for us.

I believe my explanation is far clearer since I can now use data gathered in the study of consciousness., .. like I said for instance; 'The Blue Brain Project'

Could you give us an example of some of that data.
I'd LOVE to see the connection between neuroscience and god.

[arian]

Your creator isn't a god ?

ok. You can call it what you like.

Not 'a'-god, but The God, the only Infinite and Eternal God possible; The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am"

Oh.. I get it. I FINALLY I get it. ( took me long enough )

You only accept that YOUR god is the true.. the one and only true god. All the other gods are not true gods. You reject all other gods, so it's as if you have demonstrated that none of these other pretend gods are real. That's what the believers in the other gods say about your god, too.

I didn't say: "My God is the only true God", .. I said there can Only be One Creator, and THAT One is my God. One, the Only one or we face the problem of infinite regress.
You know the Infinity part that you care less about? Well that there is one of the very foundations in understanding THE Creator, because there can be only ONE Infinite, so there can be only One Creator. If there were two 'Infinites' neither one would be truly infinite, or the one is just a metaphor, like saying "infinite numbers", when actually those are finite numbers that go on throughout infinity. We just call it 'infinite numbers', .. just as we refer to the basket 'as empty'.

You see when I explain God our Infinite and Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit, I am using words in their absolute meanings, not like we say; "The basket is empty" yet we know there are small particles still in the basket and there is air too, so this is why it is very important to understand the word 'nothing' also in its absolute form, otherwise we confuse it with things like: "Hey, what are you thinking about?"
"Oh nothing!" when it's obvious he is thinking at least something, only it's nothing important, right?

It's the No True Scotsman argument.
Thanks for clearing that up.

The only problem is all the other gods are supposed to be the one true god too.

Well yes, people got so used to all these religions around and their gods that they never really considered things like Arius, or Tillich or me. They are fine with their god or gods being just one of the guys or gals in the plethora of gods, and they'll just tell you why theirs is more special. It's personal and has nothing to do with science or absolutes, and they admit that.

Like I said, my God, the Only One possible is real. Now try to keep this in the proper perspective and don't twist my words to mean that I said; "my god is the one true god", .. there is no competition here, I am not debating some paradox, or competing with other gods, deities or theistic gods, but explaining it through logic. Logically He, the Infinite, Eternal Creator is the only One possible to be God without contradictions.

example:
The mother tells her 4 year old son to; "Go get daddy, dinner is served!"
the boy runs into his bedroom and opens up a small toy box full of plastic toy soldiers, picks one and runs back to mommy and says: "Here mommy, here is daddy!"

see the difference?

Absolutely I see the difference. That's what the other religions say about your god. That's your god is a fake god.

Tell me ONE religion that has come and told me that? Bring them on, and you will see that the Creator God that I reveal is as different, as the boys daddy is from the plastic toy soldiers.

I know my friend, you think to yourself; "here is this dumbass on this debating forum, I have fun with him making him repeat his delusional theories that someone has yet to accept, or even understand, .. talking as if he knew something no other philosopher or scientist in history could explain, so might as well have some fun with him, hell, I care less about god, any god, so what the hell?"

But think about this for a second, let's say there was this huge beautiful huge raw-diamond just laying in the dust on the side of the road, people walking all over it, no one pays any attention to it, UNTILL someone with the knowledge and appreciation for precious stones comes along, .. picks it up, .. cuts it, cleans it nice and sparkly, and sets it in light for everyone to see!?

Only the knowledge that I have found is far, far more precious than any diamond. Only I am not a diamond cutter, another words I can't use big fancy words to make my presentation of this valuable precious stone/information I found, so it doesn't catch peoples attention, just as an uncut diamond that still has some minerals attached to it wouldn't. So as I said a long time ago, I wish to find someone with education (diamond cutter) to help me present this jewel the way it should be presented?

If no, .. that's fine, I know what I have, and nothing, no ideology, no religious doctrine, no money, no mockery and downplaying the value of what I got .. nothing would make me give it up or convince me to just throw it away, .. I wouldn't give it up for the world. So I will continue showing it to whomever cares to look at it until I find someone who can appreciate what I have, and help me present it as it should be presented. The Jewel is 'Truth' as in absolute Truth, .. and if you would just look deep inside this Jewel, Aahh.. you can actually see Our creator God, and receive absolute information on anything.
Hell with them Chrystal-balls that look to divinations for answers, I have the real thing, it is like a door, or portal if you wish to eternal life. I would call this Jewel: "The Word"

So God our Creator (the title 'Creator' should explain all that in itself) is not one of the gods that theists and deists study in theology (the study of god/gods) but is the obvious 'awareness' with the ability to create whom we can study through science. That's right, studying our mind reveals the Creator.

No, sorry, the title "creator" doesn't explain it all by itself.. again, due to the other gods who are called that, too.

True, but again, we have to define THE Creator to avoid 'infinite regress', right? But if you care less about the absolute meanings to words like Infinite, Eternal, 'nothing' Deities, the gods that 'theists' study, then there is nothing to debate with you about. In your world-view, one word like god is like any other, .. god, god, god, there are tens of thousands of them, right? same with 'creator that created the creator that created a creator that created the robot who is seeking his creator.

You see if you believe the brain creates the mind, then you have a created-creator and Tillich also explains that this kind of reasoning is false.

I don't at all see the connection between my opinion on mind/brain and created/creator. You haven't explained how studying our mind reveals the Creator.

This is apples and oranges. But I'm happy that Tillich figures it all out for us.

I didn't say Tillich figured it out for us, but he did bring this to peoples attention. I understood what he was getting at, and I agree, the only difference is that I have found and can define the original 'ground of being' God our Creator, the Only One possible.

I know, I know, who the hell cares, right? For those who care less about infinite regress, one god is as good as another, or one creator like the Big-bang theory is as good as "we just don't know", so why am I even bothering explaining this here?

Is there ANYONE here that understands what I am saying? You know, anyone who has stepped outside of the religions of the world, at least long enough to get a glimpse of what I am revealing here? Someone who is not afraid what their religious associates would think if they agreed with the truth?
Someone like Jesus described, "who would be willing to give up mother, father, brothers or sisters, religion, church friends for the sake of TRUTH?"

I believe my explanation is far clearer since I can now use data gathered in the study of consciousness., .. like I said for instance; 'The Blue Brain Project'

Could you give us an example of some of that data.
I'd LOVE to see the connection between neuroscience and god.

Not neuroscience, that part is the finite-created part, but to give you a better idea (which I'm sure you know about) which goes closer and closer to Creator, or 'consciousness' is in the study of quantum theory, mechanics, quantum physics, quantum consciousness, and yes these are all sciences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n426PazcFXE

But what I have and see/understand comes from the other side, the invisible and undetectable side that creates the detectable, or finite side. It's really simple, it is your dreams, your creative ability that no one can detect other then you 'knowing it exists'. This video actually hints on what I'm saying.

Take care Blastcat.

[Zzyzx]

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I didn't say: "My God is the only true God", .. I said there can Only be One Creator, and THAT One is my God.

Is that to say that there may be other (or many) gods but that only one can be the creator god and that it is your favorite god?

Is that an opinion or a statement of fact?

Like I said, my God, the Only One possible is real.

Kindly support this claim with sources more credible than your opinion or pontification.

Only the knowledge that I have found is far, far more precious than any diamond.

Kindly step to the back of the line. Thousands ahead of you have claimed special (and precious) knowledge.

In your world-view, one word like god is like any other, .. god, god, god, there are tens of thousands of them, right? same with 'creator that created the creator that created a creator that created the robot who is seeking his creator.

I am aware that thousands of gods have been proposed, worshiped, feared, loved by humans. Some of them may be claimed to have created the universe. How can your favorite be SHOWN to be any more valid than others?

Is there ANYONE here that understands what I am saying?

It is unclear whether anyone understands but there does not seem to be anyone who accepts what you say as being truthful and accurate. Is that surprising?

But what I have and see/understand comes from the other side, the invisible and undetectable side

How can the "invisible and undetectable side" be distinguished from imaginary?

that creates the detectable, or finite side.

Neither the entity nor the proposed creation by that entity has been shown to be anything more than imagination or wishful thinking.