"I am NOT an animal"

[Zzyzx]

.
"I am NOT an animal"

Many who do not appear to have much knowledge of biology seem indignant when learning that H. sapiens are classified as animals (alternatives being plant and virus). I do not recall ever hearing a Non-Theist object. 1) Is there something about religion that causes this?

You see I am NOT an animal, never was and never in a billion years will I evolve to be one, my family tree all the way back to Adam don't have one ape in it.

2) Why be upset, indignant or in denial about a biological / taxonomic classification?

3) Since humans differ from other animals only in degree (some mental and physical characteristics), what is the objection to recognizing that they are animals?

4) Is anything other than religion (and possibly narcissism) involved?


In the quoted statement someone (whose theological position apparently defies description) claims knowledge of his family tree back to Adam – as though that proves the claimant is not an animal. However, if the hypothetical Adam was human (H. sapiens), he (Adam) classifies as an animal.

[Blastcat]

Your creator isn't a god ?

ok. You can call it what you like.

Not 'a'-god, but The God, the only Infinite and Eternal God possible; The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am"

Oh.. I get it. I FINALLY I get it. ( took me long enough )

You only accept that YOUR god is the true.. the one and only true god. All the other gods are not true gods. You reject all other gods, so it's as if you have demonstrated that none of these other pretend gods are real. That's what the believers in the other gods say about your god, too.

I didn't say: "My God is the only true God", .. I said there can Only be One Creator, and THAT One is my God.

Only the god that YOU happen to worship is the one true god. How did THAT happen?

Do you KNOW about the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy?.. doesn't look like you do.
If someone accused ME of doing the old no true scots.. i would DEFEND myself.

One, the Only one or we face the problem of infinite regress.

One, the only one or you should debate with belivers in other gods who say the same thing as you.. but don't believe in the SAME god as you do.

Problem ?.. no?

You really don't LIKE not knowing about infinity. DO you know about infinity? CAN you explain to the mathematicians about infinity? ARE you an expert in the mathematics of infinities?

You know the Infinity part that you care less about?

Tell me you know all about infinity. Then well talk. I'm not actually buying that you're an expert in the field.

Well that there is one of the very foundations in understanding THE Creator, because there can be only ONE Infinite, so there can be only One Creator.

Well, for the sake of your argument, lets say that this is true. HOW do you know YOUR god is the one and only.. No true Scots again?

If there were two 'Infinites' neither one would be truly infinite, or the one is just a metaphor, like saying "infinite numbers", when actually those are finite numbers that go on throughout infinity. We just call it 'infinite numbers', .. just as we refer to the basket 'as empty'.

Yep, because we all know that YOUR god is the only true god out there, and all the OTHER gods are false.

NO TRUE SCOTS

You see when I explain God our Infinite and Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit, I am using words in their absolute meanings, not like we say; "The basket is empty" yet we know there are small particles still in the basket and there is air too, so this is why it is very important to understand the word 'nothing' also in its absolute form, otherwise we confuse it with things like: "Hey, what are you thinking about?"

Last time I checked, the humans had NO infinite or absolute knowledge.. YOU DO?

How surprised I am.

"Oh nothing!" when it's obvious he is thinking at least something, only it's nothing important, right?

It's the No True Scotsman argument.
Thanks for clearing that up.

The only problem is all the other gods are supposed to be the one true god too.

Well yes, people got so used to all these religions around and their gods that they never really considered things like Arius, or Tillich or me. They are fine with their god or gods being just one of the guys or gals in the plethora of gods, and they'll just tell you why theirs is more special. It's personal and has nothing to do with science or absolutes, and they admit that.

So, yah.. science . You have that.. they don't. I'm going to hold my breath.

Like I said, my God, the Only One possible is real.

YOUR true Scotsman god.. got it.. got it a while back. YOUR god is true.. the others.. not so much. Got it.. Got it a while back. No use in repeating that point. I really got it.

Thank you.

Now try to keep this in the proper perspective and don't twist my words to mean that I said; "my god is the one true god", .. there is no competition here, I am not debating some paradox, or competing with other gods, deities or theistic gods, but explaining it through logic. Logically He, the Infinite, Eternal Creator is the only One possible to be God without contradictions.

Ok.. for the sake of YOUR argument, lets' say this is true. There can be ONLY one true Scotsman god.

so.. why should anyone think YOURS is that true scots God?

example:
The mother tells her 4 year old son to; "Go get daddy, dinner is served!"
the boy runs into his bedroom and opens up a small toy box full of plastic toy soldiers, picks one and runs back to mommy and says: "Here mommy, here is daddy!"

see the difference?

Absolutely I see the difference. That's what the other religions say about your god. That's your god is a fake god.

Tell me ONE religion that has come and told me that? Bring them on, and you will see that the Creator God that I reveal is as different, as the boys daddy is from the plastic toy soldiers.

You might want to have debates with people who believe in other religions. You'd be amazed.

I know my friend, you think to yourself; "here is this dumbass on this debating forum, I have fun with him making him repeat his delusional theories that someone has yet to accept, or even understand, .. talking as if he knew something no other philosopher or scientist in history could explain, so might as well have some fun with him, hell, I care less about god, any god, so what the hell?"

wow.. i really think that? Thanks .. now I don't have to worry about what I really think. I can just ask YOU.

But think about this for a second, let's say there was this huge beautiful huge raw-diamond just laying in the dust on the side of the road, people walking all over it, no one pays any attention to it, UNTILL someone with the knowledge and appreciation for precious stones comes along, .. picks it up, .. cuts it, cleans it nice and sparkly, and sets it in light for everyone to see!?

that's a really nice image. wow.

Only the knowledge that I have found is far, far more precious than any diamond.

WOW.. super claim!

Well then , show it. I don't see it at all.. What I see are your claims to knowledge. I don't SEE any diamond though.You might be completely wrong or deluded. That's a bit of a problem for me.

Only I am not a diamond cutter, another words I can't use big fancy words to make my presentation of this valuable precious stone/information I found, so it doesn't catch peoples attention, just as an uncut diamond that still has some minerals attached to it wouldn't.

Do you mean you can't prove that your diamond exists to anyone? Well.. I'd agree with that. You haven't demonstrated that any of this is true. Bit of a problem for your diamond claims.

So as I said a long time ago, I wish to find someone with education (diamond cutter) to help me present this jewel the way it should be presented?

Ok.. you cant give any evidence, and you would like it if someone did. Hey.. me too. i would like if someone did. You can't. Ok.. got that.

I happen to agree that you can't demonstrate your beliefs are true.

If no, .. that's fine, I know what I have, and nothing, no ideology, no religious doctrine, no money, no mockery and downplaying the value of what I got .. nothing would make me give it up or convince me to just throw it away, ..

Right.. you are convinced. great. So are others. Many people have beliefs they wont give up. We call them CLOSED MINDED if they cant change their beliefs. We call them DELUSIONAL if they cant show that what they believe in is true.

I wouldn't give it up for the world. So I will continue showing it to whomever cares to look at it until I find someone who can appreciate what I have, and help me present it as it should be presented.

I'm looking.. i don't SEE anything.. can you show it?

The Jewel is 'Truth' as in absolute Truth, .. and if you would just look deep inside this Jewel, Aahh.. you can actually see Our creator God, and receive absolute information on anything.

Can you explain how to look deep inside this Jewel?.. ahhh?

Hell with them Chrystal-balls that look to divinations for answers, I have the real thing, it is like a door, or portal if you wish to eternal life. I would call this Jewel: "The Word"

the itsy bitsy problem with that is that a lot of other people claim the same things.. Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews.. Taoists.. all jewels.. all making the same kind of claims.

So.. I missed the part where your claims are special and true. Got any ideas about that?

So God our Creator (the title 'Creator' should explain all that in itself) is not one of the gods that theists and deists study in theology (the study of god/gods) but is the obvious 'awareness' with the ability to create whom we can study through science. That's right, studying our mind reveals the Creator.

No, sorry, the title "creator" doesn't explain it all by itself.. again, due to the other gods who are called that, too.

True, but again, we have to define THE Creator to avoid 'infinite regress', right?

We need a creator to avoid infinite regress?

How about we get honest about things that don't make any sense? How about that?

How about we don't happen to know everything? How about we don't fall into the error of the argument from ignorance?

How about them tomaters?

But if you care less about the absolute meanings to words like Infinite, Eternal, 'nothing' Deities, the gods that 'theists' study, then there is nothing to debate with you about.

Honestly, you'd have to MAKE me care about your infinite regress and whatnot.

But I gotcha.

You don't want to debate unless i pretend to know anything in an absolute way. I wont go there with you, so the debate is over.
Thanks for the fun. Was a blast for this cat.

In your world-view, one word like god is like any other, .. god, god, god, there are tens of thousands of them, right? same with 'creator that created the creator that created a creator that created the robot who is seeking his creator.

Yes, lots of gods.
We agree.
Yes, your god concept is as valid and sound as any other god concept.

You see if you believe the brain creates the mind, then you have a created-creator and Tillich also explains that this kind of reasoning is false.

I don't at all see the connection between my opinion on mind/brain and created/creator. You haven't explained how studying our mind reveals the Creator.

This is apples and oranges. But I'm happy that Tillich figures it all out for us.

I didn't say Tillich figured it out for us, but he did bring this to peoples attention. I understood what he was getting at, and I agree, the only difference is that I have found and can define the original 'ground of being' God our Creator, the Only One possible.

So Tillich DIDN'T figure this out?.. so what now? If Tillich didn't actually figure it out.. why should I pay any attention to him?

Maybe that's why I never hear his ideas spoken of.

I know, I know, who the hell cares, right?

Absolutely right. You can make things up all day.. why should I care? People say all kinds of crazy things.. I'm supposed to CARE about them all? Your craziness is SPECIAL to me for some reason?

NEWS FLASH.. no it isn't special to me for some unknown reason. You have an idea I think is crazy. Make me care about it.

For those who care less about infinite regress, one god is as good as another, or one creator like the Big-bang theory is as good as "we just don't know", so why am I even bothering explaining this here?

Good question. You don't have to bother at all, I suppose.. if you would LIKE to explain yourself, fine. But nobody is forcing you.

I think the only person who can answer your question about your motivation is yourself. So don't ask me.

Is there ANYONE here that understands what I am saying?

There MUST be.. don't give up yet.

You know, anyone who has stepped outside of the religions of the world, at least long enough to get a glimpse of what I am revealing here?

I haven't seen any revelation. You have given me your opinions.

Someone who is not afraid what their religious associates would think if they agreed with the truth?

I am NOT afraid of the truth. Just bring it. I LOVE the truth. BRING IT.. just be ready to prove that what you offer IS true. Otherwise.. yeah.. yawn.

Someone like Jesus described, "who would be willing to give up mother, father, brothers or sisters, religion, church friends for the sake of TRUTH?"

I'm not impressed with someone who CLAIMS to know the truth and proclaims it all over the place. I am IMPRESSED if someone can DEMONSTRATE the truth of a proposition.

Im not even impressed by a character in a book who proclaims the truth, that STILL doesn't prove anything to me.

I don't BELIEVE in this truth of yours.. so if you need to have me believe it.. you better get ready to PROVE that what you say is true. Or Jesus Or.. some preacher .. OR The wonderful Tillich.

I believe my explanation is far clearer since I can now use data gathered in the study of consciousness., .. like I said for instance; 'The Blue Brain Project'

Could you give us an example of some of that data.
I'd LOVE to see the connection between neuroscience and god.

Not neuroscience, that part is the finite-created part, but to give you a better idea (which I'm sure you know about) which goes closer and closer to Creator, or 'consciousness' is in the study of quantum theory, mechanics, quantum physics, quantum consciousness, and yes these are all sciences.

Could you give us an example of some of that quantum data then.. the kind that proves your point in any way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n426PazcFXE

Thanks, but i wont watch.. can you give us the short version to MAKE me want to watch your video? .. I have a lot of videos to watch already.. many many people making many many weird claims want to show me so many videos, you see. Limited time, you see.

But what I have and see/understand comes from the other side, the invisible and undetectable side that creates the detectable, or finite side.

So you detected the undetectable. Wow.. how clever of you! But you're going to have to make up your mind here.. undetectable OR detectable.. which one is it?

It's really simple, it is your dreams, your creative ability that no one can detect other then you 'knowing it exists'. This video actually hints on what I'm saying.

I dream. I have creativity.. so what?

this proves what again?

you take care too.

Caring is important

[arian]

.

I didn't say: "My God is the only true God", .. I said there can Only be One Creator, and THAT One is my God.

Is that to say that there may be other (or many) gods but that only one can be the creator god and that it is your favorite god?

Is that an opinion or a statement of fact?

I present this as Undeniable scientific fact. And by George check out the example I just found on the same subject finally being seriously considered in science. Boy this BB and Evolution religions sure bottlenecked the progress of science on these more important studies, it is only now being taken more seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Xsp4FRgas

(Minus the universe out of nothing part, they still are working on that. Once they realize that God IS that Infinite and Eternal conscious Creative mind, they will get it) slowly but surely.

Also the Biblical explanation of this:
1 Corinthians 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world� and that “There is no God but one.� 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods� and many “lords�), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Like I said, my God, the Only One possible is real.

Kindly support this claim with sources more credible than your opinion or pontification.

Please see the video above, especially the 'infinite regress' part, maybe that will explain what I mean by 'The only One possible'.

Only the knowledge that I have found is far, far more precious than any diamond.

Kindly step to the back of the line. Thousands ahead of you have claimed special (and precious) knowledge.

I'm not claiming anything here, I am telling yas what I know. It is you who is standing in line of a gauntlet with others here and berating the poor religionists with their false created gods as you make them run your gauntlet.
Only my definition of our Creator is way too big for your gauntlet.

In your world-view, one word like god is like any other, .. god, god, god, there are tens of thousands of them, right? same with 'creator that created the creator that created a creator that created the robot who is seeking his creator.

I am aware that thousands of gods have been proposed, worshiped, feared, loved by humans. Some of them may be claimed to have created the universe. How can your favorite be SHOWN to be any more valid than others?

Because I can tell you (and have many times before) how the universe was created, and I can also define our Creator, as The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am", the only problem we are having is that religionists who have been made to believe the universe came about from nothing, and that they are evolving animals can't comprehend this.

Is there ANYONE here that understands what I am saying?

It is unclear whether anyone understands but there does not seem to be anyone who accepts what you say as being truthful and accurate. Is that surprising?

Not at all Z, .. not at all. And I stopped expecting anything more then this from those who believe they are evolving apes.

But what I have and see/understand comes from the other side, the invisible and undetectable side

How can the "invisible and undetectable side" be distinguished from imaginary?

There you go! The Invisible and undetectable IS the imaginary, it is the Mind/consciousness. Please see that video.

that creates the detectable, or finite side.

Neither the entity nor the proposed creation by that entity has been shown to be anything more than imagination or wishful thinking.

Yes, .. yes, .. yes .. now if you could only comprehend what you just said and we'd be on our way to the next step, .. the 'creating' part, right after imagination and wishful thinking.

[squint]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

[KenRU]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

"Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live." -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820

Perhaps you will now address my question?

all the best,

[squint]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

Perhaps you will now address my question?

Perhaps I did and it went without notice? Internal dishonesty keeps people from speaking honestly.

[Clownboat]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

Perhaps you will now address my question?

Perhaps I did and it went without notice? Internal dishonesty keeps people from speaking honestly.

Perhaps?
Kindly address the question and I for one will be extra attentive. I'll try to assume that your Internal dishonesty rant was not just you projecting.
1,2,3 go....

[squint]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

Perhaps you will now address my question?

Perhaps I did and it went without notice? Internal dishonesty keeps people from speaking honestly.

Perhaps?
Kindly address the question and I for one will be extra attentive. I'll try to assume that your Internal dishonesty rant was not just you projecting.
1,2,3 go....

Well, to flesh it out more clearly for you, the PROPHETS spoke "honestly" about their internal dishonesty, and more importantly, it's source. Dishonest people can not speak such things. I understand it's a conundrum. One of the more unique ones in scripture. Dishonesty seeks to cover itself up. Honesty exposes it. All the prophets bore the hallmark of honesty, even though the result was to expose their internal dishonesty.

And christians in general recognize that the heart is deceitful and wicked above "all things." Which makes man quite a vicious internal animal, even if it's not seen.

Scripture opens both internal sides of man, good and evil. It also presents that the conscious field is outside of man and susceptible to intrusion by the tempter, an entity that is not man. And that "man" is an internal slave.

[KenRU]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

Perhaps you will now address my question?

Perhaps I did and it went without notice? Internal dishonesty keeps people from speaking honestly.

Perhaps?
Kindly address the question and I for one will be extra attentive. I'll try to assume that your Internal dishonesty rant was not just you projecting.
1,2,3 go....

Well, to flesh it out more clearly for you, the PROPHETS spoke "honestly" about their internal dishonesty, and more importantly, it's source. Dishonest people can not speak such things. I understand it's a conundrum. One of the more unique ones in scripture. Dishonesty seeks to cover itself up. Honesty exposes it. All the prophets bore the hallmark of honesty, even though the result was to expose their internal dishonesty.

And christians in general recognize that the heart is deceitful and wicked above "all things." Which makes man quite a vicious internal animal, even if it's not seen.

Scripture opens both internal sides of man, good and evil. It also presents that the conscious field is outside of man and susceptible to intrusion by the tempter, an entity that is not man. And that "man" is an internal slave.

Dishonest people can say anything they like, and often do. Why can't dishonest people lie about scripture and its intent, all the while pretending to be open about their dishonesty? Think of it like misdirection. Magicians do it all the time.

What better way for a dishonest person to conceal their dishonesty then to hide it inside a truth? It would seem (if I believed such things) that would be something the devil might do to subvert the masses. Isn't he supposed to be the greatest trickster of all?

I find the logic that exempts the prophets from being considered untrustworthy quite convenient and self serving. How could one not? Its specious logic at best.

As for my heart being "deceitful" and me (internally) being "vicious", I find that to be ridiculous. I don't doubt that some people may be this way, but I for one am no such thing, and would resent and distrust any "authority" that proclaimed such a sweeping generalization.

I find it baffling that someone would take comfort in such writings that label them deceitful or vicious.

And this from someone who was raised Catholic, lol.

All the best,

[Clownboat]

Are these the same people (prophets, apostles, and the creators of laws) that we shouldn't trust entirely, because they have evil within them?

The Light shines the best in the direction of human internal darkness. It is only the dishonest who are led to dodge.

Perhaps you will now address my question?

Perhaps I did and it went without notice? Internal dishonesty keeps people from speaking honestly.

Perhaps?
Kindly address the question and I for one will be extra attentive. I'll try to assume that your Internal dishonesty rant was not just you projecting.
1,2,3 go....

Well, to flesh it out more clearly for you, the PROPHETS spoke "honestly" about their internal dishonesty, and more importantly, it's source.

This is unknown, even by you.

Dishonest people can not speak such things.

I reject this claim for being false. Dishonest people can be honest. Have you ever lied? Have you also ever told the truth?

I understand it's a conundrum.

It seems obviously false, therefore it cannot be a conundrum due to it not being confusing nor difficult to address.

All the prophets bore the hallmark of honesty, even though the result was to expose their internal dishonesty.

You state more unknowns as if they are known.
Further reason to doubt this un-evidenced claim of yours:
1st Samuel 8:1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel's leaders.
8:2 (Their names)
8:3 But his sons did not follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

The apple fell that far from the tree did it?

And christians in general recognize that the heart is deceitful and wicked above "all things." Which makes man quite a vicious internal animal, even if it's not seen.

I agree that Christianity makes man out to be evil and focuses on "evil". However, if I cannot first convince you that you are sick (evil), you will not buy the medicine (religious ideas that save you from your evil, evil ways).

Why do you think my heart is evil and wicked?

Scripture opens both internal sides of man, good and evil.

in·ter·nal
inˈtərnl/Submit
adjective
1.
of or situated on the inside.
"the tube had an internal diameter of 1.1 mm"
synonyms: inner, interior, inside, intramural; central
"the internal structure of the building"
noun
1.
inner parts or features.

Internal sides??? What does that mean? Is English not your native tongue? I'm truly trying to follow along, but "internal sides" and other words you chose to use come across as nonsense.
How can the side of a building for example, also be the interior? How is what you say not nonsense?

It also presents that the conscious field is outside of man and susceptible to intrusion by the tempter, an entity that is not man. And that "man" is an internal slave.

You're going to need to define some terms for us please or else this will remain as nonsense.
Conscious field:
Tempter and please show that this tempter is a real thing:
Internal slave:

Once you have defined them, can you explain what meaning your above words were meant to convey? Was there a point you were attempting to make?

Thanks

[squint]

I reject this claim for being false. Dishonest people can be honest.

I said no differently, however only honesty can openly address the "evil thought" quotients that transpire within i.e. to speak of it.

I agree that Christianity makes man out to be evil and focuses on "evil".

A person would have to be nearly entirely blind to miss the facts of same.