A definition

[ScioVeritas]

The word " Christian" is thrown around a lot and I'm wondering how people here define it?

Specifically, the question for debate is : what makes someone a Christian? Also where/what does your definition come from?

[Zzyzx]

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Moderator Comment

Occasional humor (if that was the intent) within posts may sometimes be appreciated. However, this is a one-line post that contributes nothing to debate (and may unnecessarily irritate some members for no good reason).

A Christian is one who points at another Christian, and says, "You're not a real Christian."

Please review the Rules.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[arian]

[
,snip to>

Because what we have today is organized religions crying out: "Here is Christ, come for we follow Christ's teachings, .. listen; (and here they read some verses from the Gospels) .. see, we have Christ, our name on our building even says we are followers of Jesus Christ!"

I believe that this was my point; the equivocation lies in the idea that "Christian" equals "salvation," or even "truth." It doesn't; it's simply a handy classification of the focus of a belief system; a very big box in which a very great number of opinions fit.

So we can have all those buildings with the name of Jesus Christ on them..and a bunch of buildings that have names that do not include the name of Jesus Christ on them but claim to be Christian, and y'know what?

they are.

That doesn't mean that they are 'saved,' or, as I have put it elsewhere; sure, all these folks are Christian...but are they Christ's?

And that is a very different topic, and one that probably doesn't belong in THIS particular forum.

No, I don't see it as a different topic, this is the very topic of the OP, what defines "Christian", and if all the folks who claim to be Christian because they become members of a Christian Religion are Christian, then the definition of Christian is totally meaningless. This is exactly what is happening today, the Pope and all the world leaders are hoping to establish a One World Religion where atheists, Satan worshipers, Muslims, Hindu, you name it are welcomed in to be considered Christian. "Christian" has become the culmination of ALL religions, and we know what the Jesuit definition of Christian is, right?
That's right, .. Catholic.

Oh yea, but you can't mix iron and clay and expect it to hold together for long, so here we wait for it to all crumble. What about John Hagee and the rest of the 'Left Behind' space ship crew, .. FEMA has already prepared their 'escape pods', plastic coffins like for the rest of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fn0v0VX3wM

[arian]

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The "homosexual person" is not an abomination, the act is, e.g. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

As a queer person, I see no difference between that verse and "god hates [anti-gay slur]." It's hate speech, plain and simple, and it's truly disgusting.

As a confirmed heterosexual I find ALL bigoted anti-homosexual statements disgusting -- whether quoted from ancient bigots or not. I question the judgment of people who make or quote such statements.

Hiding behind religion does not make bigotry or discrimination acceptable. Claiming biblical sanction is not rational and is disallowed by Forum Rules and Guidelines.

As a confirmed Disciple of Christ, I find ALL bigoted anti-Bible statements disgusting -- whether quoted from ancient Satanic Bibles, or new Transhumanist rainbow parlor 'hate everyone but the queer' religionists. Allowing abomination against nature itself to flourish must be stood up against, and offer help for those who are on a New Age Rampage to destroy everything that is good and just, because of selfish personal reasons, not for the good of the whole.
Whether they are thieves, murderers, greedy, warmongers, or homosexuals, we all have problems, but we are not going out justifying them, but work day and night to overcome them. I question the judgment of people who make or quote such statements, and there used to be laws against such actions.

Hiding behind religions like ignostic, or whatever you want to call it that justifies every abomination known to man does not make bigotry and discrimination against the teachings of Christ acceptable. Claiming Biblical and scientific ignorance is NOT an excuse either to get around Forum Rules and Guidelines! Neither is "I don't care" an excuse, .. if I could learn, so could you.

Everyone is welcome on this Christian Forum, and if any of us have problems, we are all here to offer whatever help a person needs. If health problems, I'm sure there are those here who could offer some good herb suggestions, or a type of doctor that helped us in the past. Are you a habitual gambler, smoker, drinker, drug abuser, we can help, and justifying and even condoning those bad habits is NOT help, beware of people who do that because they definitely don't have their best intention for you. Like Michael Jackson's song: "They don't care about us!"

Throwing acid on a burn is NOT helping, and those that are continuously berating the Helpful health tips, marriage tips, addiction tips, self abasement and suicidal tips which are just some of the things we and billions before us have found in the Bible are to be warned, pointed out and even avoided.

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks on anything and everything that is still good in this world Z! You, like a rabid dog attack anyone who even mentions the Bible, let alone quote from it. You don't just break Forum Rules, you are an abomination to the Christian Forum ideology!

And yes, you are one of the most active religious people on this Forum, only your religion is against everything Christianity has ever meant to stand for.

I debate against False Christianity, but you my friend are against everything that true Christianity is about. After thousands of your debates, you offer absolutely NO alternate solutions, because you have none.

And I'm telling you this, if I get kicked off this Forum, I will dedicate my time to mentioning you in my prayers to my God whom you abhor so much, to reward your vomitus responses accordingly! You and your minions who follow you and snap at to get a bite out of people you are devouring.

I love you Z, but your devouring, justifying anything that is an abomination attitude I honestly just abhor. You put up some really good debates, but only to lure in and then devour the Christians who with good intentions respond. Half the time you make absolutely no sense, and we can tell that you don't even care to respond with an intention to come to some kind of terms. Oh yea, .. and you derail more threads then anyone here, especially when we Christians are making good points.

[dianaiad]

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks.....

<snip to end, as I refuse to allow these sentiments any more bandwidth>

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This sort of personal, negative and, frankly, deliberately hateful language is against the rules. It doesn't matter how angry or upset you get at someone else's position; deal with the position, not the poster. Do not make negative comments about any poster.


Please review our Rules.

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Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 62 by arian]

Hi "friend" Arian, what brought on that rant? I made no mention of Christians in the post to which you responded.

Could it be that bottled up emotions have resulted in an outburst of honesty that breaks through the facade with – "I really love my friend the rabid dog that lures in and devours Christians. Yes I do because I am a Christian (even if I denied it previously."

If someone said

I hate you because you poke gaping holes in claims and stories about God that I can't explain away. I hate that you always ask for reason to accept what I and others tell about invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities that we think are real – when you know darn well that I / we can't back up what we claim. You trick me / us into trying to defend my / our claims and stories (ancient or modern) that have no basis in fact that I / we can show. I'm going to go away and eat worms (or pray for God to strike you dead)."

I could at least appreciate their honesty.

I will dedicate my time to mentioning you in my prayers to my God whom you abhor so much, to reward your vomitus responses accordingly!

Of course that is said with loving intent. Right? Or is it retribution?

This is not the first time a Good Christian has threatened to invoke their favorite God. Rather than praying out their anger (or hatred or whatever it is) the time might be more constructively spent seeking anger management counseling.

You and your minions who follow you and snap at to get a bite out of people you are devouring.

Astute readers understand that I attack IDEAS, claims, statements, stories rather than people. It is unfortunate that some debaters cannot or do not distinguish between DEBATING (what we do here) against ideas and attacking people personally (which is not permitted – but which some seem unable to resist – particularly when they do not fare well in debate).

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks

Those who dislike what I present are free to NOT READ my posts. Becoming angry does not contribute to debate (as post #62 demonstrates) and harboring anger and hostility is said to be detrimental to mental and physical health.

However, if I EVER make bigoted, hateful remarks by all means report them rather than trashing threads with personal attack.

You, like a rabid dog attack anyone who even mentions the Bible

"Rabid dog"? My how friendly and loving – very Christian.

CORRECTION: I challenge IDEAS, claims, statements and stories that are presented in debate (what we do here). Most often that takes the form of asking for verification that what is said is truthful and accurate. Those who cannot substantiate what they claim to know often become frustrated at their own inability and resent being asked.

It might be prudent to understand WHY so many religious statements cannot be shown to be true and accurate. Could it be that they are neither truthful nor accurate?

Half the time you make absolutely no sense

Thanks. That puts me ahead of those who make absolutely no sense all the time, doesn't it?

Would it make more sense to you (generic term) if I talked about seeing demons, ghosts, UFOs, mysterious men – or claimed to know about gods?

And yes, you are one of the most active religious people on this Forum, only your religion is against everything Christianity has ever meant to stand for.

What, exactly and specifically, is "Christianity meant to stand for" other than worshiping one of the proposed gods? Kindly provide a numbered list and show evidence that I am against each item.

. . . you my friend are against everything that true Christianity is about.

My actual Christian friends here in the Forum and in real life seem to think (and occasionally say) that I act as Christians are supposed to act except for the worshiping gods part and believing ancient tales, folklore, myth, legends – and sermons (formal or ad-lib).

BTW – what exactly is "True Christianity?" It seems as though there are at least 40,000 different Christian group opinions. Is there one definition that is universally accepted?

After thousands of your debates, you offer absolutely NO alternate solutions, because you have none.

What "solutions"? Solutions to WHAT?

If someone was bold enough to ask my "solution" to a given, carefully detailed, situation or problem, I might be willing to say what I think about the matter – but NOT pretend to know solutions for anyone other than myself.

Unlike many, I do not pretend to know what decisions others should make. I do not offer advice other than to learn to make sound decisions based upon credible, verifiable information.

That last part seems to irritate those who base their positions on (ask others to) "take my word for it (or his, or this book)" – none of which can be shown to be truthful and accurate (verified).

your devouring, justifying anything that is an abomination attitude I honestly just abhor

See what I mean?

You put up some really good debates,

Thanks. Perhaps some of what I present is useful to readers (even if disliked by debaters).

but only to lure in and then devour the Christians who with good intentions respond.

Actually, I prefer to devour the products of my garden. Cannibalism does not appeal at all.

Would it be preferable if I dumbed down my arguments enough so they would not "devour" opposition arguments? Frankly, I don't know how to be stupid (and am not requesting advice in that direction from those who know). Should I pretend to be uneducated, gullible, naïve? Would that make you (generic term) more comfortable and/or more successful?



I appreciate you "coming clean" and displaying what lies behind a facade of "friend" and "love." Is this an example of Christianity in action? "By their fruits . . . " and all that sort of thing.

Interesting, illuminating.

Has it occurred to you (generic term) that I might just be right to question believing tales (and testimonials about emotional episodes) concerning all the proposed invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities? Might it be wise to NOT just take someone's word (ancient or modern) when they tell stories and state opinions that they cannot show are true and accurate?

Most seem to understand that it would be foolish to believe tales about OTHER gods – but insist that tales about THEIR favorite god are to be believed "religiously".

[wiploc]

A Christian is one who points at another Christian, and says, "You're not a real Christian."

It has been pointed out to me that the above could be interpreted as mere humor rather than as substantive comment. I thought my comment was the ultimate in cogency: pithy and compelling. A slam dunk. I didn't mind that it was also funny.

I shall now restate my point in more words:

The OP asks for the definition of Christian. There is no privileged definition, no definition that is correct at the expense of other definitions. That's because the meaning of the word is a matter of opinion.

Christians themselves dispute the meaning, as they have done, I'm sure, since the beginning of Christianity. I grew up with Baptists who didn't think Catholics were "real" Christians. Many Christians don't think Mormons are Christians.

As an emphatic non-Christian, I have no standing to correct the definition of people who think think they are Christian.

As an atheist, I freely contradict people who mis-define "atheist." I have that authority; I have standing.

As a non-Christian, I have to defer to the Christians on the definition of "Christian." But the Christians do not agree. They are not approaching agreement. They will never agree.

There is no standard, true, or correct definition, of "Christians."

[Korah]

[Replying to post 65 by wiploc]
Funny, wiploc,
But I do consider myself to have a sense of humor. I'm (the only?) one who reported your #58 as improper as much as anything because you were (successful at?) cutting off discussion (and still have, far as I can tell) on defining what is a Christian. Yes, I appreciated the all-too-true irony in your definition, which might better (for me anyway) have been phrased, "A true Christian is one who accuses others of not being true Christians." I think I could cogitate on whether we should take that version seriously, not just as a bitter jibe.

Now that you have "confessed" how personally true your original "definition" was, I repent of having put you to the test. I hope it did not hurt to tell that. Yes, Christians can be terrible people. Quite often non-Christians act like better Christians, we could say.

My confession (I hope it doesn't put me farther along the road to banishment). I was irritated that my long post just preceding yours was getting ignored because you had stuck a stake into the heart of the discussion. I take my ideas seriously, perhaps too seriously, and I apologize again if I have caused you any pain. (If you're like me, of course, you were delighted to have the opportunity to get revenge on all the "Christians" who had hurt you.)

[arian]

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[Replying to post 62 by arian]

Hi "friend" Arian, what brought on that rant? I made no mention of Christians in the post to which you responded.

Hi Z. and yes you are still my friend, the human part, the part I pray for that one day would wake up to reality. But that other part that uses Z's above average intelligence has become really tiring, and your response to the One Liner "I am a Queer" post just pushed me over the edge.

Could it be that bottled up emotions have resulted in an outburst of honesty that breaks through the facade with – "I really love my friend the rabid dog that lures in and devours Christians. Yes I do because I am a Christian (even if I denied it previously."

John 3:16 New King James Version
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Did the 'world' that God sent His Son to die for include 'Queers'? Yes, it included every queer ever lived. There hung the Son of God, beaten, slowly dying on the cross for every queer, liar, thief, murderer, adulterer, and even for short tempered idiots like me, for what? So like Billy Graham thinks, (generic Billy Graham) to allow every queer, liar, thief, murderer, adulterer into eternal life in Heaven?

But then God sends His Son, the most gentle of men, filled with compassion and forgiveness, turns his other cheek when smitten, and then before He dies on the cross he explodes all that was bottled up in Him:

Matthew 8:12
But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.�

Matthew 13:42
and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50
and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.�

Matthew 22:13
Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matthew 24:51
and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30
And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

.. and that's just in Mathew.

I love the real you, the one with a name, and yes I would even die for you to save your soul, but this guy Z, (generic Z) I tell you I pray for God to throw him off his high stool he stands so proudly and speaks from.

Oh yea, what God and what John 3:16, .. right? lol. Silly me.

If someone said

I hate you because you poke gaping holes in claims and stories about God that I can't explain away.

Oh pleeeasee.. get off your high-horse Z, you won't allow, or accept, or listen long enough to debate ANY solid explanation that you cannot destroy with your "prove it, show the evidence, ..?"

And here is the same-o, same-o response:

I hate that you always ask for reason to accept what I and others tell about invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities that we think are real – when you know darn well that I / we can't back up what we claim.

The entire world knows about a man, a Prophet, the Son of God Jesus Christ, who walked the earth aah, .. let me see now, what's the date today; oh yeah 2015 years ago, which we call 2015AD, and Not 4.015 billion years APMS (After Primordial Soup)and He came from Heaven and became a man, yes a man born of a woman, and not of an animal, an ape. Just ask anyone (besides your buddies here)?

The Bible revolutionized history, even though many of its writings are not followed correctly. But you and your buddies deny any validity of the Bible, no matter how many Christians here shown how we could rewrite the whole Bible just from other historical records.

I have debated with you about those supernatural entities, demons which I seen with my own eyes with other witnesses, but oh yea, what was it that you and Clownboat suggested for people who see ghosts, or UFO's? Right?

We also debated the next best explanation for the existence of the universe and you even admitted that the Big Bang Theory and the Evolution Theory are the most solid explanations you accept so far, .. but darn it, you don't seem to want to talk about the only other alternatives! Why would that be Z?
Could it be because you know darn well that I / we can't back up what we claim?

You trick me / us into trying to defend my / our claims and stories (ancient or modern) that have no basis in fact that I / we can show. I'm going to go away and eat worms (or pray for God to strike you dead)."

I could at least appreciate their honesty.

The 'fact' is the Bible.
The fact that it has been subject of attack both the book, but especially the content of the Book from the time the Apostles laid their pens to the paper/parchment it was written on.
Why was the disciples hated so, for following Jesus teaching? Can you show me 'from the Bible' or any other historical records what YOU think pissed people off so much to hate these Jesus Followers to a point to throw them and their children to the lions?

The fact is all around you, you grew up in it, and you endlessly without a break oppose it. Pointing to sick people who murder others which the media adds a few lines here and a few words there to make it that "God made me do it", lol.

I told you I came from a communist country where they used every atheist trick in the book to discourage Christians from believing God that they swear don't exist lol.
What do they do to the ones who would not heed to their insistence that "God doesn't exist!"

That's right, they 'banish them to death' or 'ban' them for short. But why such enormous all out effort to banish those Christians who follow Jesus teachings? Could that maybe give us a clue to the validity of a God they swear they don't believe in? I mean who tortures and murders their fellow citizens for reading ancient myths?
Let's see the harm these Christians do to the United brotherhood of the Communist followers, and to the Mother Country?

OK, .. they get together a few times a week and read from the Book of ancient myths and fairytales, and talk about make belief gods, angels, talking donkeys, escaping their slavery by a big pillar of fire - (according to Communists)
Oh yeah here is a dangerous one no Communist has ever done, .. they pray to a God the communist know for a fact don't exist.
They (barf, .. puke, ..) sing old hymns and have this peaceful almost silly smile on their faces while doing it.
They teach their children to love each other and to love even those Communists who hate them, and who took their daddies away in the middle of the night into prisons where they torture them to try to make them deny their God whom the communists don't believe exists!?
What does all this show from the non-theist ignostic Communists that show up to all their meeting religiously? Does this show that they really don't believe that God exists, or something quite opposite, that with all the effort, all the imprisonments, camps all the torture and interrogations of their own citizens, (and usually they were the countries best, most productive and most loyal citizens) .. does it really show that they really don't believe God exists? That the Bible is just an old Bronze aged fairytale about talking donkeys fit for children, like how you say it; no different then stories of fairy's, Peter Pan and Tinker Bell.

Hmm, now how many people in the past 2,000 year history were hauled off in the middle of the night, beaten, tortured and killed for reading Bronzed aged, make believe fairytales? I mean just imagine in the dark dungeons between the screams of agony;

"Say it you fairytale and myth reader, .. SAY IT; Tinker Bell doesn't exist! Say it!" as they tighten the knob on the;

Boot
Brazen bull
Breaking wheel
Breast ripper
Catapelta
Choke pear
Cattle prod
Electroshock weapon
Heretic's fork
Instep borer
Iron chair
Iron Maiden
Judas Chair

.. and that's just to the letter 'J' to name a few!

I will dedicate my time to mentioning you in my prayers to my God whom you abhor so much, to reward your vomitus responses accordingly!

Of course that is said with loving intent. Right? Or is it retribution?

Ah yes, the good ol' snip to distract from the real content I said that in. Still at it ay? Well, when you have nothing else, there is always deception, magic, trickery, distortion ..

But anyways, it's not like you would deviate from attack, then run back to your little protected 'happy place' where you know you are far, far away from that actual person, free from eye contact.

But yes, if you guys do ban me, (I have demonstrated my appreciation of this Forum) I will most likely pray for especially for those who never once shown any leniency, or slowed down in using their intelligence to twist, turn, snip, cut, presume just to distract Christians from being able make their point, you know, so that God would shake them up a bit, like maybe a couple of lightning bolts just outside your bedroom window (like He did for me in Texas, which really did knock the mockers off their high horse).
And no Z, I would never ask God to strike you dead, .. but something just to make His presence known. But then God knows who is actually worthy of a scare like that, why waste the lightning bolts on those whose hearts are like stone, right!?

I have debated in all honesty, what I claimed to have witnessed with my own ears and eyes are true, and never once deviated from it. I have provided my address and welcomed anyone to come and meet me, and offered my home to be a guest in, because I know the importance of speaking face to face vs. code names that speak in an impersonal way with rules on a Debating Forum. When talking about such delicate issues as God and what our faith is based on, our life experiences, a simple "Prove it? Show me the video? Oh the Bible, ..no, no, no that breaks Forum rules, NOooo you can't quote that! Fine, I'll just snip it anyways!" this just renders the whole conversation meaningless. Takes the soul out of it. But then, you know that, I'm sure you do, that's why you hate personal responses.

Well please forgive me, when I write, I am writing to another human being not to my keyboard, and when I read a response I take it very personal and listen to what that 'person', .. yes that person, not my monitor is saying? I know how much you despise any show of emotion or closer personal debating.

This is not the first time a Good Christian has threatened to invoke their favorite God. Rather than praying out their anger (or hatred or whatever it is) the time might be more constructively spent seeking anger management counseling.

Yes, I remember that over the years you and some other like-minded have really pushed some Christians over the edge to make them say thing they shouldn't of so they could be banned, or made them quit, and not only Christians, but even atheists because they shown sings of weakening, or noticed that they were taking a second look at their non-belief.

Read my post, I explain my dissatisfaction in your replies pretty clearly, it's not JUST the <snip .. > ONE LINERs you quoted, like you do again here next;

You and your minions who follow you and snap at to get a bite out of people you are devouring.

Astute readers understand that I attack IDEAS, claims, statements, stories rather than people. It is unfortunate that some debaters cannot or do not distinguish between DEBATING (what we do here) against ideas and attacking people personally (which is not permitted – but which some seem unable to resist – particularly when they do not fare well in debate).

It's HOW you attack IDEAS, claims, statements, stories that's the problem, how you belittle their claims no matter how verified it is, yet avoid to back up your own claims; "I leave it to those who are experts on the subject"

We are NOT debating "2 to 4 years of college", we are debating you and what you think? Not what a professor in college thinks.
"Maybe you should take a few years of college arian to better understand what I would not even try to explain."

Oh, here comes another <snip - one liner>

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks

Those who dislike what I present are free to NOT READ my posts. Becoming angry does not contribute to debate (as post #62 demonstrates) and harboring anger and hostility is said to be detrimental to mental and physical health.

Actually I'm not mad anymore, it was your remark to the "I am a queer" genderless person, when you as a moderator should have at least 'Commented on such nasty one liner, queer or not. The appropriate and delicate "save the gays" term is homosexual.

However, if I EVER make bigoted, hateful remarks by all means report them rather than trashing threads with personal attack.

LOL, there are a few reasons I don't report anyone, and my post #62 is one of them. The other is obvious to Christians who been here for more then 100 posts.

You, like a rabid dog attack anyone who even mentions the Bible

"Rabid dog"? My how friendly and loving – very Christian.

Just trying to follow in the footsteps of my Creator:

Leviticus 26:30
I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you.

Ezekiel 6:4
Then your altars shall be desolate, your incense altars shall be broken, and I will cast down your slain men before your idols.

Ezekiel 6:6
In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate, so that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, your idols may be broken and made to cease, your incense altars may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.

There are hundreds more, like;

Revelation 3:16
So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

CORRECTION: I challenge IDEAS, claims, statements and stories that are presented in debate (what we do here). Most often that takes the form of asking for verification that what is said is truthful and accurate.

Those who cannot substantiate what they claim to know often become frustrated at their own inability and resent being asked.

Oh yes, very frustrated, to a point they resort to (on a Christian and Religious forum) condoning abominations against the source of the so called 'bigoted remarks', .. the BIBLE!

like:

As a queer person, I see no difference between that verse and "god hates [anti-gay slur]." It's hate speech, plain and simple, and it's truly disgusting.

As a confirmed heterosexual I find ALL bigoted anti-homosexual statements disgusting -- whether quoted from ancient bigots or not. I question the judgment of people who make or quote such statements.
Hiding behind religion does not make bigotry or discrimination acceptable. Claiming biblical sanction is not rational and is disallowed by Forum Rules and Guidelines.

So calling the Bible, our God of the Bible, the ancient Prophets of the Bible, and anyone who quotes the Bible bigots, .. disgusting bigots, but calling a queer, or an non-theist ignostic Moderator on a Christian Debating Forum is unacceptable?

Come on Z, you know I won't stand for that, not until you Ban me, or you have my head on the side of the FEMA guillotine.

It might be prudent to understand WHY so many religious statements cannot be shown to be true and accurate. Could it be that they are neither truthful nor accurate?

Not accurate? By whose standard, the queers (generic queer) or yours (generic yours)?

Half the time you make absolutely no sense

Thanks. That puts me ahead of those who make absolutely no sense all the time, doesn't it?

Would it make more sense to you (generic term) if I talked about seeing demons, ghosts, UFOs, mysterious men – or claimed to know about gods?

Yes, especially as a Moderator it would help if you acquainted yourself with demons that take on different forms and fly around as UFO's, and mysterious men (they are called Angels Z) who come to the aid of people, especially children who are abused and starved and are near death, and yes, especially as a Moderator on a Christian Forum you should know at least a little bit about God/gods!? But that's just me.

And yes, you are one of the most active religious people on this Forum, only your religion is against everything Christianity has ever meant to stand for.

What, exactly and specifically, is "Christianity meant to stand for" other than worshiping one of the proposed gods? Kindly provide a numbered list and show evidence that I am against each item.

That's what the OP was supposed to be for, a definition for 'Christian', .. not condoning actions that are listed in the Bible (that would be the Christian Bible) as abomination to God and nature.

. . . you my friend are against everything that true Christianity is about.

My actual Christian friends here in the Forum and in real life seem to think (and occasionally say) that I act as Christians are supposed to act except for the worshiping gods part and believing ancient tales, folklore, myth, legends – and sermons (formal or ad-lib).

Prove it Z, prove to me that your friends here and in real life find your actions Christ-like, .. because frankly over the years that we debated, .. I just don't see it.

Christians, as defined by Christ's teaching in the Bible as; followers of His teaching DO NOT condone queers, or call the Bible, the God of the Bible, the followers of the Bible bigots.
Maybe it is you non-theists who are in a realm of ancient tales, folklore, myth, legends?

BTW – what exactly is "True Christianity?" It seems as though there are at least 40,000 different Christian group opinions. Is there one definition that is universally accepted?

LOL, .. universally accepted? .. not yet Z, but the Pope and the One World Religious Order are working on it.

Now if you want to know what 'True Christianity' is, .. read arian's posts (thousands of them), he explains a Biblical definition of 'Christian' and a real scientifically proven Creator God, the Only One Possible that you can trust your life on.

After thousands of your debates, you offer absolutely NO alternate solutions, because you have none.

What "solutions"? Solutions to WHAT?

Who are we, where did we come from, what are we doing here?

You say there is no God or a Creator that created the universe and man by ID, but you refuse to talk about the 'other alternative, Big-bang Evolution!? You refuse to accept that man was created by his Creator as evidenced by his mind, your rather choose that man is an evolving animal, an ape. But you don't want to talk about that!?

If someone was bold enough to ask my "solution" to a given, carefully detailed, situation or problem, I might be willing to say what I think about the matter – but NOT pretend to know solutions for anyone other than myself.

Wow, .. and here you are a Moderator, debating topics, Questioning Christians on a Debating Christianity and Religious Forum??

Unlike many, I do not pretend to know what decisions others should make. I do not offer advice other than to learn to make sound decisions based upon credible, verifiable information.

I didn't ask you to become a religious Priest, but with your intelligence you could definitely suggest best options instead of berate, defame the Bible, our Creator God that I've shown you exist through science, and those Debaters who earnestly seek the Truth, .. like this OP for instance!? Yes, .. using credible and verifiable information.

What color is my eye Z? If I told you, how would you verify my info on this forum?

That last part seems to irritate those who base their positions on (ask others to) "take my word for it (or his, or this book)" – none of which can be shown to be truthful and accurate (verified).

None, .. never because you say so. Nice to be God ay Z? We grovel at your feet.

your devouring, justifying anything that is an abomination attitude I honestly just abhor

See what I mean?

No, .. but I was hoping you see what I meant by this post, cause I really did put my neck out for you my friend. But there is still hope here, .. I didn't think my post would of been given a second chance, but here I am debating it further. Man, I really would miss not being here, but there are a few things that I just can't pass up, and the queers post, with your response was one of those few.

But this being a Christian Forum, I believe we can pray for the queer, and continue working hard to convince you of the truth!?! Would you agree?

You put up some really good debates,

Thanks. Perhaps some of what I present is useful to readers (even if disliked by debaters).

No Z, .. I truly and honestly love you. I also love your posts, but for heaven sake, .. wait, ok for Ignostic sake, can you at least wait long enough to allow us Christians to express ourselves? I know, hell, having 40,000 versions doesn't help, but there are some really good Christian Debaters coming in, they do make some really good points, if you would just step out of your hard headed stand on your ignostic non-theist religious stance, .. just long enough to consider what is being said, .. you jump to your old 'there ain't no God stance before you even consider that what some of us are saying is outside of religion!? You just take your broom and sweep everything into your pile labeled 'religion'. Take a look again, I'm telling you there is treasure swept up in there.

But then again, if you really don't give a shit about the Bible, God, the writers of the Bible, or what it says in there, then what in hell are you doing on a Christian Debating forum? I mean it's not something you actually need, .. that's obvious. So What???

but only to lure in and then devour the Christians who with good intentions respond.

Actually, I prefer to devour the products of my garden. Cannibalism does not appeal at all.

Me too, .. my wife got them hot peppers coming in daily, and I love hot peppers, dread going to the bathroom though!

Would it be preferable if I dumbed down my arguments enough so they would not "devour" opposition arguments? Frankly, I don't know how to be stupid (and am not requesting advice in that direction from those who know). Should I pretend to be uneducated, gullible, naïve? Would that make you (generic term) more comfortable and/or more successful?

No, .. you know I would never ever want to srtupify you or dumb you down even a quantum step. And yes, I have spent 40 some years labeled as 'stupid', because I had no schooling (not my choice, you know the story). And because of no schooling, I was gullible and naïve enough to believe the labeling.

But because I never gave up, I eventually came to a point where I could see that it was people who were stupid themselves that stupefied me, to cover up their stupidity. I told you of my atheist friend, he shown me the door, and from then on, I had proof I was not stupid.

So I would be the last person to want to bring someone down, when I can learn so much more by lifting them up by challenging them. But why stop at being just smart when you can exceed and become a genius? I am not gullible either anymore, I know what I know, by comparing it to what info is out there.

You see I don't care how you label me to make what I say less valuable, I grew up with that as I just told you. What I know about God (not your religious gods) and about all those other things I debated, I know is true, and I keep an open mind and ear certifying it by what I hear in debate.

But when I see religion rule the mind of the wise and prudent, especially when they are not even aware of it, well it disappoints me. Especially when that intelligent person is satisfied with where he is.

I appreciate you "coming clean" and displaying what lies behind a facade of "friend" and "love." Is this an example of Christianity in action? "By their fruits . . . " and all that sort of thing.

Interesting, illuminating.

Go ahead and use the juicy stuff I gave you, .. I shown how God himself, the God of Love responds to abomination that He knows will hurt us. But then the Bible is just a myth for you, so you won't be able to see that either.

Don't think this is an apology, I have said some things in the past that warranted a warning, but this one is NOT one of them. The last thing I'll do is give way to a self proclaimed queer to rule over the Bible, God, the Prophets, the Apostles and us who follow the Bible even if one of the most intelligent Debater here condones it.

I already PM'd Dianaiad according to Forum rules.

Has it occurred to you (generic term) that I might just be right to question believing tales (and testimonials about emotional episodes) concerning all the proposed invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities? Might it be wise to NOT just take someone's word (ancient or modern) when they tell stories and state opinions that they cannot show are true and accurate?

Of course, that's why I speak against religions and their invented gods so much. Not to mention their worship of the divine in the supernatural realm! And I believe that's why you stay away from the Big-bang and Evolution theories and other Sci-fientific stories that are popping up and are on a rampage lately. Parallel universes, I mean really!?

Most seem to understand that it would be foolish to believe tales about OTHER gods – but insist that tales about THEIR favorite god are to be believed "religiously".

I know, I know, that's why I answered your call on my "Undeniable Scientific Evidence of The Creator" claim. To hopefully reveal God our Creator to everyone through science, and put all them fake gods created by religions back in their toy-box where they belong.

Take care Z!

[Haven]

Don't think this is an apology, I have said some things in the past that warranted a warning, but this one is NOT one of them. The last thing I'll do is give way to a self proclaimed queer to rule over the Bible, God, the Prophets, the Apostles and us who follow the Bible even if one of the most intelligent Debater here condones it.

What, exactly, does my sexuality or gender (I assume you're referring to me with this statement) have to do with my ability to comment on the Bible, the Christian god, et cetera? What do these things have to do with the subject of this thread, which is the definition of 'Christian?' Keep in mind that I'm just a poster like everyone else here, trying to have civil discussions about religion. There's no need to get personal like this.

Can we please get this discussion back on topic?

[arian]

Don't think this is an apology, I have said some things in the past that warranted a warning, but this one is NOT one of them. The last thing I'll do is give way to a self proclaimed queer to rule over the Bible, God, the Prophets, the Apostles and us who follow the Bible even if one of the most intelligent Debater here condones it.

What, exactly, does my sexuality or gender (I assume you're referring to me with this statement) have to do with my ability to comment on the Bible, the Christian god, et cetera?

Nothing, just as you can walk with your same-sex partner into ant Baptist church (which I've seen more then once) sit down and listen to the service. You can go talk to the Minister too and ask him anything you want to know about the Bible.

This same sex couple came again next week, and they said they loved the ministry and felt really loved there, and everyone was happy to see them there.

Now what happens after a few months these same sex couples come to a Christian Church, smiling and holding hands, sitting a few pews back? People will start asking (as they should) "what are you really seeking here?"
"Well we love it here, you people are really nice and kind. We love the Ministry, we have learned a lot about the Bible."

after a few more months they decide to bring in other gay couples into the church, because they are really nice and polite and tolerant in this church.

Do these homosexual or as you called yourself "Queers" allowed to come to church and listen to the preaching? Pray with the others, sing, have Bible study just as the straight people do?
Would it be proper to teach against homosexuality, and what an abomination it is for God and nature when a third of the congregation in attendance are now gay couples?

So the real question is, how long before Christians are no longer tolerated on a Christian Forum?

What do these things have to do with the subject of this thread, which is the definition of 'Christian?' Keep in mind that I'm just a poster like everyone else here, trying to have civil discussions about religion. There's no need to get personal like this.

Can we please get this discussion back on topic?

What does announcing on a Christian debating Forum that you are a Queer, and that your sexuality should have nothing to do with your defining what Christian is?

Homosexuality is an abomination before God, that is a big part of being a "Christian". Would you like to debate that with me?

What do you think Haven, should "Christianity" remove parts of Christianity from the Bible or not?
Atheists and ignostic already find the Bible disgusting, that's why they stay and debate it. So what about homosexuals, what part of Christianity draws you to debate on the definition of Christian?

Back on topic? But this IS the topic, the definition of Christian.