A definition

[ScioVeritas]

The word " Christian" is thrown around a lot and I'm wondering how people here define it?

Specifically, the question for debate is : what makes someone a Christian? Also where/what does your definition come from?

[Zzyzx]

.
Moderator Comment

Occasional humor (if that was the intent) within posts may sometimes be appreciated. However, this is a one-line post that contributes nothing to debate (and may unnecessarily irritate some members for no good reason).

A Christian is one who points at another Christian, and says, "You're not a real Christian."

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[arian]

[
,snip to>

Because what we have today is organized religions crying out: "Here is Christ, come for we follow Christ's teachings, .. listen; (and here they read some verses from the Gospels) .. see, we have Christ, our name on our building even says we are followers of Jesus Christ!"

I believe that this was my point; the equivocation lies in the idea that "Christian" equals "salvation," or even "truth." It doesn't; it's simply a handy classification of the focus of a belief system; a very big box in which a very great number of opinions fit.

So we can have all those buildings with the name of Jesus Christ on them..and a bunch of buildings that have names that do not include the name of Jesus Christ on them but claim to be Christian, and y'know what?

they are.

That doesn't mean that they are 'saved,' or, as I have put it elsewhere; sure, all these folks are Christian...but are they Christ's?

And that is a very different topic, and one that probably doesn't belong in THIS particular forum.

No, I don't see it as a different topic, this is the very topic of the OP, what defines "Christian", and if all the folks who claim to be Christian because they become members of a Christian Religion are Christian, then the definition of Christian is totally meaningless. This is exactly what is happening today, the Pope and all the world leaders are hoping to establish a One World Religion where atheists, Satan worshipers, Muslims, Hindu, you name it are welcomed in to be considered Christian. "Christian" has become the culmination of ALL religions, and we know what the Jesuit definition of Christian is, right?
That's right, .. Catholic.

Oh yea, but you can't mix iron and clay and expect it to hold together for long, so here we wait for it to all crumble. What about John Hagee and the rest of the 'Left Behind' space ship crew, .. FEMA has already prepared their 'escape pods', plastic coffins like for the rest of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fn0v0VX3wM

[arian]

.

The "homosexual person" is not an abomination, the act is, e.g. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

As a queer person, I see no difference between that verse and "god hates [anti-gay slur]." It's hate speech, plain and simple, and it's truly disgusting.

As a confirmed heterosexual I find ALL bigoted anti-homosexual statements disgusting -- whether quoted from ancient bigots or not. I question the judgment of people who make or quote such statements.

Hiding behind religion does not make bigotry or discrimination acceptable. Claiming biblical sanction is not rational and is disallowed by Forum Rules and Guidelines.

As a confirmed Disciple of Christ, I find ALL bigoted anti-Bible statements disgusting -- whether quoted from ancient Satanic Bibles, or new Transhumanist rainbow parlor 'hate everyone but the queer' religionists. Allowing abomination against nature itself to flourish must be stood up against, and offer help for those who are on a New Age Rampage to destroy everything that is good and just, because of selfish personal reasons, not for the good of the whole.
Whether they are thieves, murderers, greedy, warmongers, or homosexuals, we all have problems, but we are not going out justifying them, but work day and night to overcome them. I question the judgment of people who make or quote such statements, and there used to be laws against such actions.

Hiding behind religions like ignostic, or whatever you want to call it that justifies every abomination known to man does not make bigotry and discrimination against the teachings of Christ acceptable. Claiming Biblical and scientific ignorance is NOT an excuse either to get around Forum Rules and Guidelines! Neither is "I don't care" an excuse, .. if I could learn, so could you.

Everyone is welcome on this Christian Forum, and if any of us have problems, we are all here to offer whatever help a person needs. If health problems, I'm sure there are those here who could offer some good herb suggestions, or a type of doctor that helped us in the past. Are you a habitual gambler, smoker, drinker, drug abuser, we can help, and justifying and even condoning those bad habits is NOT help, beware of people who do that because they definitely don't have their best intention for you. Like Michael Jackson's song: "They don't care about us!"

Throwing acid on a burn is NOT helping, and those that are continuously berating the Helpful health tips, marriage tips, addiction tips, self abasement and suicidal tips which are just some of the things we and billions before us have found in the Bible are to be warned, pointed out and even avoided.

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks on anything and everything that is still good in this world Z! You, like a rabid dog attack anyone who even mentions the Bible, let alone quote from it. You don't just break Forum Rules, you are an abomination to the Christian Forum ideology!

And yes, you are one of the most active religious people on this Forum, only your religion is against everything Christianity has ever meant to stand for.

I debate against False Christianity, but you my friend are against everything that true Christianity is about. After thousands of your debates, you offer absolutely NO alternate solutions, because you have none.

And I'm telling you this, if I get kicked off this Forum, I will dedicate my time to mentioning you in my prayers to my God whom you abhor so much, to reward your vomitus responses accordingly! You and your minions who follow you and snap at to get a bite out of people you are devouring.

I love you Z, but your devouring, justifying anything that is an abomination attitude I honestly just abhor. You put up some really good debates, but only to lure in and then devour the Christians who with good intentions respond. Half the time you make absolutely no sense, and we can tell that you don't even care to respond with an intention to come to some kind of terms. Oh yea, .. and you derail more threads then anyone here, especially when we Christians are making good points.

[dianaiad]

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks.....

<snip to end, as I refuse to allow these sentiments any more bandwidth>

Moderator Warning


This sort of personal, negative and, frankly, deliberately hateful language is against the rules. It doesn't matter how angry or upset you get at someone else's position; deal with the position, not the poster. Do not make negative comments about any poster.


Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 62 by arian]

Hi "friend" Arian, what brought on that rant? I made no mention of Christians in the post to which you responded.

Could it be that bottled up emotions have resulted in an outburst of honesty that breaks through the facade with – "I really love my friend the rabid dog that lures in and devours Christians. Yes I do because I am a Christian (even if I denied it previously."

If someone said

I hate you because you poke gaping holes in claims and stories about God that I can't explain away. I hate that you always ask for reason to accept what I and others tell about invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities that we think are real – when you know darn well that I / we can't back up what we claim. You trick me / us into trying to defend my / our claims and stories (ancient or modern) that have no basis in fact that I / we can show. I'm going to go away and eat worms (or pray for God to strike you dead)."

I could at least appreciate their honesty.

I will dedicate my time to mentioning you in my prayers to my God whom you abhor so much, to reward your vomitus responses accordingly!

Of course that is said with loving intent. Right? Or is it retribution?

This is not the first time a Good Christian has threatened to invoke their favorite God. Rather than praying out their anger (or hatred or whatever it is) the time might be more constructively spent seeking anger management counseling.

You and your minions who follow you and snap at to get a bite out of people you are devouring.

Astute readers understand that I attack IDEAS, claims, statements, stories rather than people. It is unfortunate that some debaters cannot or do not distinguish between DEBATING (what we do here) against ideas and attacking people personally (which is not permitted – but which some seem unable to resist – particularly when they do not fare well in debate).

I can no longer take your bigoted hateful remarks

Those who dislike what I present are free to NOT READ my posts. Becoming angry does not contribute to debate (as post #62 demonstrates) and harboring anger and hostility is said to be detrimental to mental and physical health.

However, if I EVER make bigoted, hateful remarks by all means report them rather than trashing threads with personal attack.

You, like a rabid dog attack anyone who even mentions the Bible

"Rabid dog"? My how friendly and loving – very Christian.

CORRECTION: I challenge IDEAS, claims, statements and stories that are presented in debate (what we do here). Most often that takes the form of asking for verification that what is said is truthful and accurate. Those who cannot substantiate what they claim to know often become frustrated at their own inability and resent being asked.

It might be prudent to understand WHY so many religious statements cannot be shown to be true and accurate. Could it be that they are neither truthful nor accurate?

Half the time you make absolutely no sense

Thanks. That puts me ahead of those who make absolutely no sense all the time, doesn't it?

Would it make more sense to you (generic term) if I talked about seeing demons, ghosts, UFOs, mysterious men – or claimed to know about gods?

And yes, you are one of the most active religious people on this Forum, only your religion is against everything Christianity has ever meant to stand for.

What, exactly and specifically, is "Christianity meant to stand for" other than worshiping one of the proposed gods? Kindly provide a numbered list and show evidence that I am against each item.

. . . you my friend are against everything that true Christianity is about.

My actual Christian friends here in the Forum and in real life seem to think (and occasionally say) that I act as Christians are supposed to act except for the worshiping gods part and believing ancient tales, folklore, myth, legends – and sermons (formal or ad-lib).

BTW – what exactly is "True Christianity?" It seems as though there are at least 40,000 different Christian group opinions. Is there one definition that is universally accepted?

After thousands of your debates, you offer absolutely NO alternate solutions, because you have none.

What "solutions"? Solutions to WHAT?

If someone was bold enough to ask my "solution" to a given, carefully detailed, situation or problem, I might be willing to say what I think about the matter – but NOT pretend to know solutions for anyone other than myself.

Unlike many, I do not pretend to know what decisions others should make. I do not offer advice other than to learn to make sound decisions based upon credible, verifiable information.

That last part seems to irritate those who base their positions on (ask others to) "take my word for it (or his, or this book)" – none of which can be shown to be truthful and accurate (verified).

your devouring, justifying anything that is an abomination attitude I honestly just abhor

See what I mean?

You put up some really good debates,

Thanks. Perhaps some of what I present is useful to readers (even if disliked by debaters).

but only to lure in and then devour the Christians who with good intentions respond.

Actually, I prefer to devour the products of my garden. Cannibalism does not appeal at all.

Would it be preferable if I dumbed down my arguments enough so they would not "devour" opposition arguments? Frankly, I don't know how to be stupid (and am not requesting advice in that direction from those who know). Should I pretend to be uneducated, gullible, naïve? Would that make you (generic term) more comfortable and/or more successful?



I appreciate you "coming clean" and displaying what lies behind a facade of "friend" and "love." Is this an example of Christianity in action? "By their fruits . . . " and all that sort of thing.

Interesting, illuminating.

Has it occurred to you (generic term) that I might just be right to question believing tales (and testimonials about emotional episodes) concerning all the proposed invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities? Might it be wise to NOT just take someone's word (ancient or modern) when they tell stories and state opinions that they cannot show are true and accurate?

Most seem to understand that it would be foolish to believe tales about OTHER gods – but insist that tales about THEIR favorite god are to be believed "religiously".

[wiploc]

A Christian is one who points at another Christian, and says, "You're not a real Christian."

It has been pointed out to me that the above could be interpreted as mere humor rather than as substantive comment. I thought my comment was the ultimate in cogency: pithy and compelling. A slam dunk. I didn't mind that it was also funny.

I shall now restate my point in more words:

The OP asks for the definition of Christian. There is no privileged definition, no definition that is correct at the expense of other definitions. That's because the meaning of the word is a matter of opinion.

Christians themselves dispute the meaning, as they have done, I'm sure, since the beginning of Christianity. I grew up with Baptists who didn't think Catholics were "real" Christians. Many Christians don't think Mormons are Christians.

As an emphatic non-Christian, I have no standing to correct the definition of people who think think they are Christian.

As an atheist, I freely contradict people who mis-define "atheist." I have that authority; I have standing.

As a non-Christian, I have to defer to the Christians on the definition of "Christian." But the Christians do not agree. They are not approaching agreement. They will never agree.

There is no standard, true, or correct definition, of "Christians."

[Korah]

[Replying to post 65 by wiploc]
Funny, wiploc,
But I do consider myself to have a sense of humor. I'm (the only?) one who reported your #58 as improper as much as anything because you were (successful at?) cutting off discussion (and still have, far as I can tell) on defining what is a Christian. Yes, I appreciated the all-too-true irony in your definition, which might better (for me anyway) have been phrased, "A true Christian is one who accuses others of not being true Christians." I think I could cogitate on whether we should take that version seriously, not just as a bitter jibe.

Now that you have "confessed" how personally true your original "definition" was, I repent of having put you to the test. I hope it did not hurt to tell that. Yes, Christians can be terrible people. Quite often non-Christians act like better Christians, we could say.

My confession (I hope it doesn't put me farther along the road to banishment). I was irritated that my long post just preceding yours was getting ignored because you had stuck a stake into the heart of the discussion. I take my ideas seriously, perhaps too seriously, and I apologize again if I have caused you any pain. (If you're like me, of course, you were delighted to have the opportunity to get revenge on all the "Christians" who had hurt you.)

[arian]

[Haven]

Don't think this is an apology, I have said some things in the past that warranted a warning, but this one is NOT one of them. The last thing I'll do is give way to a self proclaimed queer to rule over the Bible, God, the Prophets, the Apostles and us who follow the Bible even if one of the most intelligent Debater here condones it.

What, exactly, does my sexuality or gender (I assume you're referring to me with this statement) have to do with my ability to comment on the Bible, the Christian god, et cetera? What do these things have to do with the subject of this thread, which is the definition of 'Christian?' Keep in mind that I'm just a poster like everyone else here, trying to have civil discussions about religion. There's no need to get personal like this.

Can we please get this discussion back on topic?

[arian]

Don't think this is an apology, I have said some things in the past that warranted a warning, but this one is NOT one of them. The last thing I'll do is give way to a self proclaimed queer to rule over the Bible, God, the Prophets, the Apostles and us who follow the Bible even if one of the most intelligent Debater here condones it.

What, exactly, does my sexuality or gender (I assume you're referring to me with this statement) have to do with my ability to comment on the Bible, the Christian god, et cetera?

Nothing, just as you can walk with your same-sex partner into ant Baptist church (which I've seen more then once) sit down and listen to the service. You can go talk to the Minister too and ask him anything you want to know about the Bible.

This same sex couple came again next week, and they said they loved the ministry and felt really loved there, and everyone was happy to see them there.

Now what happens after a few months these same sex couples come to a Christian Church, smiling and holding hands, sitting a few pews back? People will start asking (as they should) "what are you really seeking here?"
"Well we love it here, you people are really nice and kind. We love the Ministry, we have learned a lot about the Bible."

after a few more months they decide to bring in other gay couples into the church, because they are really nice and polite and tolerant in this church.

Do these homosexual or as you called yourself "Queers" allowed to come to church and listen to the preaching? Pray with the others, sing, have Bible study just as the straight people do?
Would it be proper to teach against homosexuality, and what an abomination it is for God and nature when a third of the congregation in attendance are now gay couples?

So the real question is, how long before Christians are no longer tolerated on a Christian Forum?

What do these things have to do with the subject of this thread, which is the definition of 'Christian?' Keep in mind that I'm just a poster like everyone else here, trying to have civil discussions about religion. There's no need to get personal like this.

Can we please get this discussion back on topic?

What does announcing on a Christian debating Forum that you are a Queer, and that your sexuality should have nothing to do with your defining what Christian is?

Homosexuality is an abomination before God, that is a big part of being a "Christian". Would you like to debate that with me?

What do you think Haven, should "Christianity" remove parts of Christianity from the Bible or not?
Atheists and ignostic already find the Bible disgusting, that's why they stay and debate it. So what about homosexuals, what part of Christianity draws you to debate on the definition of Christian?

Back on topic? But this IS the topic, the definition of Christian.