Let's cut to the chase: did the resurrection happen?

Haven · Post by **Haven** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:36 pm

Recently, there have been a lot of threads on topics related to the resurrection of Jesus (empty tomb, supernaturalism vs. naturalism, historical records, and so on). I think it may be helpful to discuss the big picture: did the resurrection of Jesus happen or not? This thread is the place to discuss it: offer any argument for or against the resurrection. Hopefully this will be a good discussion.

Debate question: Was Jesus resurrected from the dead?

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Thread rules:
1) Offer evidence or logical argument. Simply providing Bible quotes isn't sufficient.
2) Faith, while valid on a personal level, isn't evidence for a claim. Provide empirical evidence from history, textual criticism, physics, and so on, not simply statements of faith.
3) Be kind to each other. All of us, regardless of our religious position, are conscious beings deserving of respect and civility.

DefenderofTruth · Post by **DefenderofTruth** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:52 pm

Zzyzx wrote: .
DefenderofTruth wrote: Why should i answer these questions?
It is called debate. That is what we do here -- some of us anyway. Others just evade and/or preach (or maybe watch Youtube videos).

I don't know what you are trying to imply here buddy...

I asked you the question because i am curious about what your side of the debate is, given the questions you are asking.

DefenderofTruth · Post by **DefenderofTruth** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:59 pm

Bust Nak wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: I do not accept youtube videos as evidence in debate.
I watched it, it's just some guy trying to sell his book. He claimed to have read about a way to communicate with God from a book while he was still seeking spirituality, after successfully contacting "God" using that method, he was advice by a Christian friend to challenge "God" in the name of Jesus. It turns the spirit he was in contact with was a demon none other than Satan himself. If the name of Jesus has power over Satan, there must be truth in Christianity. Instead of just telling you the method so you can verify it yourself, you should definitely buy his book to read all about it in all its frightening detail. Seems legit.

Z asked me how to identify if the "spirit is the Devil" and i told him, you test spirits by Christ's name. I then referenced two things that collaborate what I'm talking about, the 3 Epistles of John and a testimony from a youtube video, which he apparently rejected..

Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.

Korah · Post by **Korah** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:08 pm

[Replying to post 51 by DefenderofTruth]
Good point, DoT,
About passive-aggression. Good use of terms, because to say "Logical Empiricism", the fancier word for the same thing, would just go over people's heads.

Don't feel bad about mistakenly spelling the word "complement" (meaning a "supplement", a support or completion) when you were giving your appreciation for how he "compliments" you. He himself made the same mistake a day or two ago--maybe you picked up your misuse (misspelling, whatever) of the word from him.

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:12 pm

.

DefenderofTruth wrote: Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.

When one offers Youtube videos as "evidence" their position is no more credible than offering comic books as evidence -- or Sunday school pamphlets and coloring books.

DefenderofTruth · Post by **DefenderofTruth** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:21 pm

Zzyzx wrote: .
DefenderofTruth wrote: Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.
When one offers Youtube videos as "evidence" their position is no more credible than offering comic books as evidence -- or Sunday school pamphlets and coloring books.

Bit irrational if you ask me, but hey if that is how you will justify not even looking into the answers i give to your every own questions.. Fine.. You asked, i gave an answer are sourced two different sources which you ignored both, because one was a "youtube video"... Im not going to force you to look at anything i source, but you might as well just retract the question for all I'm concerned.

And just to note, you haven't scoured a single thing in this entire debate. In fact i don't think i have ever seen you source anything, but thing i source something you are too good to look at... Ok Z, suit yourself... How about we get back on topic and you answer post 51...

This "what if you seen the Devil, how would you know?" has proved to be a meaningless debate...

Haven · Post by **Haven** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:27 pm

[color=red]DefenderofTruth[/color] wrote: Z asked me how to identify if the "spirit is the Devil" and i told him, you test spirits by Christ's name. I then referenced two things that collaborate what I'm talking about, the 3 Epistles of John and a testimony from a youtube video, which he apparently rejected..

Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.

Isn't this circular? If Islam is true, wouldn't 'spirits' promoting Christianity be demonic? How could anyone do this without knowing first that Christianity is true?

DefenderofTruth · Post by **DefenderofTruth** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:34 pm

Haven wrote:
[color=red]DefenderofTruth[/color] wrote: Z asked me how to identify if the "spirit is the Devil" and i told him, you test spirits by Christ's name. I then referenced two things that collaborate what I'm talking about, the 3 Epistles of John and a testimony from a youtube video, which he apparently rejected..

Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.
Isn't this circular? If Islam is true, wouldn't 'spirits' promoting Christianity be demonic? How could anyone do this without knowing first that Christianity is true?

Um, no... Islam believes in the Bible and in Christ (supposably)... But this isn't what the debate is about... What is your point and how does it relate to the debate?

Hatuey · Post by **Hatuey** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:42 pm

DefenderofTruth wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: .
DefenderofTruth wrote: Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.
When one offers Youtube videos as "evidence" their position is no more credible than offering comic books as evidence -- or Sunday school pamphlets and coloring books.
Bit irrational if you ask me, but hey if that is how you will justify not even looking into the answers i give to your every own questions.. Fine.. You asked, i gave an answer are sourced two different sources which you ignored both, because one was a "youtube video"... Im not going to force you to look at anything i source, but you might as well just retract the question for all I'm concerned.

And just to note, you haven't scoured a single thing in this entire debate. In fact i don't think i have ever seen you source anything, but thing i source something you are too good to look at... Ok Z, suit yourself... How about we get back on topic and you answer post 51...

This "what if you seen the Devil, how would you know?" has proved to be a meaningless debate...

DoT, I disagree with Z, here. I think that offering a YouTube as evidence is a fine tactic. You're basically saying that a presentation provides a better breakdown/summary of points in a better manner than would be advantageous in words on this site. It's like referencing a book or journal.

However, it would be wise of you to explain the primary points of the Youtube so that there is a clear understanding of what premises and conclusions the viewer is expected to deal with. Why should the viewer be convinced of what you are proposing? How does the video do a better job explaining than your explanation of those points?

I believe if you gave a summary of the main points in the video and expressed why the video does a better job of evidencing those points it would help advance the debate.

Hatuey · Post by **Hatuey** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:48 pm

DefenderofTruth wrote:
Haven wrote:
[color=red]DefenderofTruth[/color] wrote: Z asked me how to identify if the "spirit is the Devil" and i told him, you test spirits by Christ's name. I then referenced two things that collaborate what I'm talking about, the 3 Epistles of John and a testimony from a youtube video, which he apparently rejected..

Fine, if he doesn't care to look at the evidence that is his own choice.
Isn't this circular? If Islam is true, wouldn't 'spirits' promoting Christianity be demonic? How could anyone do this without knowing first that Christianity is true?
Um, no... Islam believes in the Bible and in Christ (supposably)... But this isn't what the debate is about... What is your point and how does it relate to the debate?

The point is that every religion is going to provide ways of explaining that their position is right and all other religions and religious positions are wrong. That's what religions do. We're right and others are wrong. Here's the rules we made up that show we're right and everyone else is wrong.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:57 pm

Korah wrote: [Replying to post 48 by Zzyzx]
Pay no attention to Z, DoT.
Because he's the Mod who really runs things here, so he's got to behave and he can't insult you, lie about you, or even boot you out of here as quickly as he would a fellow non-Theist. (He doesn't have to "play" fair with them.)

But no, notice I didn't say he won't harass you, get you to admit things you'd never want to....

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