Does he have a valid point?

[Zzyzx]

.

Bill Maher:
"When I hear from people that religion doesn't hurt anything, I say really? Well besides wars, the crusades, the inquisitions, 9-11, ethnic cleansing, the suppression of women, the suppression of homosexuals, fatwas, honor killings, suicide bombings, arranged marriages to minors, human sacrifice, burning witches, and systematic sex with children, I have a few little quibbles. And I forgot blowing up girl schools in Afghanistan."

Some say "The good outweighs the bad." If so what is that weighty good?

Many say "That is just the other religions." Is that true?

[enviousintheeverafter]

[Replying to post 33 by enviousintheeverafter]

Zzyzx didnt say... "US college graduates"

"...Christianity is declining among educated, intelligent people and nations"

And I doubt there's much data on the correlation between faith and IQ, not that IQ is really an accurate general measurement of overall intelligence anyways- looking at levels of religious belief among college graduates, relative to the general population, is one way to judge the relationship between education level and Christianity. And, as I noted, it is declining in the US (and many other places, as in the UK and in Europe), and others have found negative correlations generally between religious belief and education level. In general, education and religious conviction, particularly of the Christian variety, don't seem to mix well. Hardly a conclusive consideration or anything, but both interesting and, I think, quite telling.

[bjs]

Theists, including Christians, have done bad things.

Can I now point to all the bad things done by non-theists or by secular governments and use them to counter the idea that non-theism doesn’t hurt anything?

Maher is a comedian. Treat him as such.

[MasterOfOnesOwnMind]

[Replying to post 8 by Zzyzx]

Then I am sure you will agree and won't distance yourself from the fact that the ideology of evolution killed the most people last century. Let alone the Holocaust of abortion taking place today.

Abortion is much different than invading and murdering people for not holding the same beliefs as you. Not even comparable. Not to mention a fetus is a fetus, not a human being yet. Preventing life is not taking life.

I don't even know what you're talking about with your "ideology of evolution". How exactly did the "ideology of evolution" kill the most people last century?

[MasterOfOnesOwnMind]

Theists, including Christians, have done bad things.

Can I now point to all the bad things done by non-theists or by secular governments and use them to counter the idea that non-theism doesn’t hurt anything?

Maher is a comedian. Treat him as such.

But can you say bad things done by non theists were done in the name of non theism? All the things maher listed were done IN THE NAME OF RELIGION... Meaning, without religion those things wouldn't have happened.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. -Steven Weinberg

[Dropship]

Incidentally, Jehovah's Witnesses sat out WW2 because they don't believe in war.
Suppose every American had also been a non-combatant pacifist, America would now be divided down the Mississippi into two halves, the western Japanese-ruled half, and the eastern Nazi-ruled half.
So which is the more "evil" course of action, to fight aggressors, or to do nothing and let them take over?

[MasterOfOnesOwnMind]

Incidentally, Jehovah's Witnesses sat out WW2 because they don't believe in war.
Suppose every American had also been a non-combatant pacifist, America would now be divided down the Mississippi into two halves, the western Japanese-ruled half, and the eastern Nazi-ruled half.
So which is the more "evil" course of action, to fight aggressors, or to do nothing and let them take over?

Obviously fighting aggressors is the right thing to do... Which, ironically, if everyone was able to fight off aggressors efficiently there would be no christianity today because they'd have been wiped out during the crusades or the inquisitions (in which they were the aggressors).

[bjs]

Theists, including Christians, have done bad things.

Can I now point to all the bad things done by non-theists or by secular governments and use them to counter the idea that non-theism doesn’t hurt anything?

Maher is a comedian. Treat him as such.

But can you say bad things done by non theists were done in the name of non theism? All the things maher listed were done IN THE NAME OF RELIGION... Meaning, without religion those things wouldn't have happened.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. -Steven Weinberg

The crusades were fought to gain to political control over Jerusalem and the surrounding territory. If that is “in the name of religion� then most secular wars were indeed in the name of non-theism.

Beyond that, every action we take is motivated by our worldview. We cannot rightly say, “When people who disagree with me do something bad it is because of their worldview, but when people agree with me do something bad it is not because of their worldview.�

The quote from Weinberg makes no sense. What about all the people the USSR who slaughtered people for being religious, as well as for a variety of other reasons? In what sense where they motivated by religion?

[MasterOfOnesOwnMind]

Theists, including Christians, have done bad things.

Can I now point to all the bad things done by non-theists or by secular governments and use them to counter the idea that non-theism doesn’t hurt anything?

Maher is a comedian. Treat him as such.

But can you say bad things done by non theists were done in the name of non theism? All the things maher listed were done IN THE NAME OF RELIGION... Meaning, without religion those things wouldn't have happened.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. -Steven Weinberg

The crusades were fought to gain to political control over Jerusalem and the surrounding territory.

The crusades were sanctioned by the pope, and were not for political control. It was for the benefit of christianity... They wanted access to the holy land so they invaded and attacked.. And guess what the church did? Offered anyone who joined them in the war freedom from all sins! So they lied to get people to fight for the cross. Saying it was political is taking it way out of context.

If that is “in the name of religion� then most secular wars were indeed in the name of non-theism.

Secular wars? Perhaps you can give me an example of a secular war, beacuse I have yet to hear of one. Maybe you don't fully understand the definition of secular? A war in the name of non-theism is absurd lol... Non Theistic people have started wars, but never in the name of non theism. The crusades were religiously motivated, stop trying to cover it up.

Beyond that, every action we take is motivated by our worldview. We cannot rightly say, “When people who disagree with me do something bad it is because of their worldview, but when people agree with me do something bad it is not because of their worldview.�

Every action is motivated by our world view? When I hold the door for someone it's not because of my worldview. When I slap a mosquito it's not because of my worldview. When I drink a glass of wine its not because of my worldview. If I get into a barfight it's not because of my world view.

What would possibly make you decide to post such a ignorant comment?

I don't even understand what you're trying to say in the quotes... I can guarantee it makes no sense though.

The quote from Weinberg makes no sense. What about all the people the USSR who slaughtered people for being religious, as well as for a variety of other reasons? In what sense where they motivated by religion?

Well that was evil people being evil. Easy lol...

So yes Weinberg's quote makes PERFECT sense.

[KenRU]

The quote from Weinberg makes no sense. What about all the people the USSR who slaughtered people for being religious, as well as for a variety of other reasons? In what sense where they motivated by religion?

This would be an example of bad people doing bad things, wouldn't it?

[Hamsaka]

..the very real atrocities done by Christians over the centuries?

What makes you think they're true Christians?

Because that's what they called themselves, because they committed the atrocities the historical record records in the name of the Christian God, and with the motivation to enforce 'conversion' to Christianity.

All we have to objectively determine a person is a Christian is for them to identify themselves as such, and perhaps behave in ways associated with Christians, such as church attendance, Christian prayers, invoking the Christian deities, reading Christian scriptures with reverence and belief.

Otherwise, it's your personal opinion versus that of any other person's personal opinion, or a particular Christian sect's opinion/interpretation.

I'm with ya! The Inquisition and the Crusades are contradictory to the stated Christian values.

Don't 'shove' these so-called Christians off to the side by (personally, your personal opinion). As unpleasant/uncomfortable as it is, these were your religious ancestors, and there's nothing like forgetting history to cause folks to repeat it.

It's like moderate Muslims saying the radicals aren't 'true Muslims'. Like more moderate Christians, they want to distance themselves from their badly behaved co-religionists, but in doing so, they relinquish something important -- responsibility for their own. As far as I understand it, Christians are to admonish, teach, support and correct each other. If ya just deny they are Christians at all, how do you know your God has similarly written them off? Are you very, very sure he has? If not, to brush them off as 'not true Christians', you are disobeying direct orders.